What could possibly go wrong? DOGE to rapidly rebuild Social Security codebase.

A safe and proper rewrite should take years not months.

See full article...

 

[O.F.Fascist]

No worries. I'm sure they will never just ask Grok or another AI to rewrite the code, copy/paste it into production and then wait to see if anyone complains about their paycheck.

"We fixed the glitch..."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUE0PPQI3is

 

[wizzywig]

ARREST PRESIDENT MUSK NOW.

 

[SixDegrees]

As long as they leave the existing system alone until it's replacement is ready this is just another opportunity for DOGE to fail spectacularly.
I wouldn't worry until the migration stars, and knowing Elon's timelines, it will be ready about the same time as Full Self Drive arrives on Mars.

But it's clear at his point that Elon hates poor people more than anything else.

That's not what they're doing. They're going to trash the existing system, and only then start working on its replacement - if they even bother with the latter.

The goal is to burn it all down. Rebuilding is secondary or laughable from their perspective.

 

[gmerrick]

A buggy system can overpay to people too

Wonder how many cheques will be sent to "dead people".

 

[SixDegrees]

The political reality is that if they actually do fuck up SSI payments to the majority of recipients (not just the disabled and nursing home patients who they are targeting first) they will be in a pitchfork and torches moment. You cannot just wipe out the means of support to what, 1/3 of the population and expect no political pushbacks. Even MAGAits aren't that dumb (I think).

All this while simultaneously revamping the FAA air traffic control system. WhatcouldpossiblygoRIGHT?

Now, both systems are very much in need of considerable rewrite and reform. And Congress has managed to kick the can down the runway for decades. So some sort of shake up might be appropriate.

But not this way. It just cannot work. Unpossible.

Fortunately, there are many Tesla dealerships within handy torching distance.

 

[RobTheRenderer]

I don’t know whether to be relieved or concerned that I have not yet started receiving payments from the SSA. It’s a couple years off, so either things will be totally fixed or totally screwed. Given the way things are going it will likely be the latter.

 

[cwaynerl]

Just imagine all the back doors that the DOGE Bros will be leaving behind.

 

[EricM2]

60MLOC... With a system this size, if done properly, the analyis phase, e.g. what all this code actually does under which circumstances, would take longer than a few months.
Equally, analyzing what it actually should do according to federal, state and local regulations is probably a similarily complex task.
Then writing a replacement based on those 2 inputs (and their gaps) again takes time.

The suggested timeline alone tells us, they don't plan to do this in any way you could call "properly", instead they will most probably opt for an "AI"-assisted garbage-in - garbage-out process, which might conclude in a few months with an engineering catatrophe.

 

[gmerrick]

Another intentional attempt to blow up the government.

Pitchfork ready for when it all fails and all Social Security records are lost.

Seems this is how the USA ends and a civil war starts up because Social Security was screwed up.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

You guys just need to have some faith. Musk has a plan. He has already stated that he plans to proactively integrate AI with blockchain technology to synchronistically alter the scope of the obstacles.

 

[Fnord666]

No worries. I'm sure they will never just ask Grok or another AI to rewrite the code, copy/paste it into production and then wait to see if anyone complains about their paycheck.

You know it will be xAI with a big, fat no-big government contract to go with it.

 

[Mechjaz]

Even MAGAits aren't that dumb (I think).

Tell that to the woman who thinks losing 20% of her children to a preventable, previously effectively-eradicated, disease is acceptable.

Edit to add: it's not (just) about being that dumb, it's about believing that deeply. And there are true believers.

 

[phk46]

But the DOGE goons work 80 hour weeks, so it’s only going to take half as long. And they work for free, so this is worth every penny.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Emon]

Talk is cheap. The only dangerous thing is to maintain the status quo in the government and let social security crash into insolvency in 2034.

How does rewriting the payments system help with insolvency?

Are you under the impression that the current software is somehow SO inefficient that it'll interfere with solvency? Where are the receipts for that? Literally, there would be a paper trail. Where's the money going and why can't they show us?

This sounds like a talking point that was given to you. They're saying, "trust us, bro" and because you've developed a parasocial relationship with a billionaire, you're believing them.

 

[ubercurmudgeon]

But the DOGE goons work 80 hour weeks, so it’s only going to take half as long.

Yeah - it'll all be fine, we just need some vibe coders typing prompts into the cheapest LLM we can use.

No worries. I'm sure they will never just ask Grok or another AI to rewrite the code, copy/paste it into production and then wait to see if anyone complains about their paycheck.

Or, worse, they'll get AI to write the tests.

I guess they could just throw all the code in Grok and tell it "modernize this." I'm sure it will be perfectly fine and nothing will go wrong at all.

You guys just need to have some faith. Musk has a plan. He has already stated that he plans to proactively integrate AI with blockchain technology to synchronistically alter the scope of the obstacles.

You know it will be xAI with a big, fat no-big government contract to go with it.

STOP. GIVING. THEM. IDEAS.

I'm as big of an irony fan as anyone, but satire is dead in this timeline.

 

[dmsilev]

What problem are they trying to solve? When I signed up for SS, it took me no more than half an hour to get a login.gov account, and to locate the bits and pieces of information they wanted. I got my first check less than 10 days later.

For a broad swath of the conservative movement, that efficiency is the problem that they're trying to solve. They would much rather that the system be run by politically-connected Wall Street firms who would tack on huge management fees and kick back some of that to the conservatives in question. Elon and his band of howler monkeys are just the latest in a long long line of conservatives who have been trying to destroy Social Security. They started right when Roosevelt set up the system, and haven't stopped since then.

 

[pingsoni]

As a 73-year old who depends on Social Security and Medicare, I am honestly terrified. I feel like I've been on a rollercoaster ride since 2016 and just spotted a missing section of track coming up. I wake up in the morning, remember what is going on, and want to wake up again out of this nightmare.

 

[Emon]

Edit to add: it's not (just) about being that dumb, it's about believing that deeply. And there are true believers.

It's about wanting to not feel dumb. Acknowledging their kid died due to their negligence calls into question their own standing of their own intelligence in their own head.

Most people like to think they're "smarter than most people."

They tend to fare very poorly when they're shown if that's not true. Or, if it's not true for certain things and they'll perceive it as "if I'm wrong, I would be dumb, and I'm not dumb, therefore I cannot be wrong."

It's sad because "smart" and "dumb" aren't even well defined!

Every culture that has words for "smart" and "dumb" has this problem. I posit that. All cultures that have ever existed have this problem. I think it undermines our thinking more than any other cultural phenomenon.

Placing emphasis on "intelligence" is ironically one of the dumbest things we have ever done. Frankly we should stop using smart as a compliment and dumb as an insult. We basically all perpetuate it and it's rather Not Good

 

[aleph_nought]

None of that matters. The DOGGIE guys aren't project managers (PMs) and they're not handling this like "a project." How do I know? Because a real PM analyzes the existing system, develops a map of it, has a test methodology to test the current system that can later be used to test the new system, and has a migration plan.

That's all before ANY coding happens. And until you have that there's no timeline. But DOGGIE says it will all be done in months.

Disaster coming. They have hubris and ego... but no project manager or a clue.

Why do I get the feeling that they're going to stuff all that into an LLM context window, ask it to refactor COBOL into Java, then do some vibe coding with a few Mountain Dews cracked open on the desk?

 

[NomadUK]

You cannot just wipe out the means of support to what, 1/3 of the population and expect no political pushbacks.

Unless, of course, you don’t care about political pushbacks, and aren’t worried about elections.

 

[MacCruiskeen]

I felt a disturbance in the internet, like the voices of millions of software engineers suddenly crying out in terror, and then suddenly silenced.

 

[RickyP784]

Another intentional attempt to blow up the government.

Pitchfork ready for when it all fails and all Social Security records are lost.

I just went to ssa.gov and downloaded my SSA statement and benefit verification letters just in case.

 

[ricerocket]

As far as the Trump administration (and especially Musk) is concerned, if people don't get paid, that is a good thing, because it saves money.

Of course, if they make a mess of it, will old people who stop receiving their checks ever vote Republican again?

Fake news!!! Stop spreading misinformation!! Someone is getting paid..........themselves!

What can possibly go wrong?

 

[AusPeter]

As a 73-year old who depends on Social Security and Medicare, I am honestly terrified. I feel like I've been on a rollercoaster ride since 2016 and just spotted a missing section of track coming up. I wake up in the morning, remember what is going on, and want to wake up again out of this nightmare.

As a not-73-year old who doesn't depend on Social Security and Medicare, I'm also honestly terrified.

It's not that these systems couldn't be migrated off COBOL, but it's the fact that they believe they can do in the short time frame they've stated yet they don't comprehend that the task is akin to the effort put into the entire Apollo moon landing program¹.

^{1. I'm trying to ignore that cruelty is the point}

 

[TauCeti]

IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
PROGRAM-ID. CriticizeSSAMigration.

ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.

DATA DIVISION.
WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
01 WS-MESSAGE PIC X(200).

PROCEDURE DIVISION.
MAIN-PARAGRAPH.
MOVE 'The rapid migration of SSA systems from COBOL to a modern'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'language within months poses significant risks. COBOL has'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'been reliable for decades, powering critical SSA functions.'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'Migrating 60 million lines of code in a short timeframe can'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'lead to system failures and benefit payment disruptions for'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'millions of Americans. The integrity of the system and the'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'livelihoods of beneficiaries are at stake. Such a rushed'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'migration is irresponsible and jeopardizes the trust in SSA.'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'A more cautious, well-planned approach over several years is'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'essential to ensure a smooth transition and maintain service'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'quality. The use of generative AI for code translation adds'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'another layer of risk, as it may not accurately capture all'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'business logic and edge cases. The SSA should prioritize'
TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
MOVE 'stability and thorough testing over speed.' TO WS-MESSAGE
DISPLAY WS-MESSAGE
STOP RUN.

How is that language not beautiful?

 

[What a nin-cow-poop]

Screw up the automated system that a huge number of your citizens rely on for luxuries like food and shelter in a country where so many citizens have guns...sounds like a recipe for a nice, peaceful future.

 

[Hichung]

There is absolutely no way they can re-write a Cobol based application with the scale the SSA system has into java or some other 'modern' language in a few months and ensure it's working properly. Absolute bull shit.

Of course, if that's the plan (fucking poor old people), then they should have no problem meeting that timeline.

 

[ColdWetDog]

What problem are they trying to solve? When I signed up for SS, it took me no more than half an hour to get a login.gov account, and to locate the bits and pieces of information they wanted. I got my first check less than 10 days later.

It's probably slower when you do it in person, but the office staff is using the same software online users are accessing.

This sounds like A) more taxpayer money for Musk, and B) another way to make the system less accessible for The Poors.

Also note that Trump is shutting down local Social Security offices, so you might have to go across state to do things in person. Which is required for some actions currently and would likely get worse when Musk's over caffeinated under specc'd coders start pushing buttons.

But that's OK. Poor people don't really need to eat.

 

[ColdWetDog]

You guys just need to have some faith. Musk has a plan. He has already stated that he plans to proactively integrate AI with blockchain technology to synchronistically alter the scope of the obstacles.

All he has to do is reverse the tachyon polarity or something like that, correct?

 

[narf_poit]

I will enjoy watching this from afar. Y’all voted for it. Chilling here in a land of good food and free healthcare, overdosing on schadenfreude.

Knock this kind of crap off. I didn't vote for this, I voted for a black woman who was the best of bad options. So did a lot of people in this country.

The tariffs will likely cost me my IT job. If the fuckers in charge go after HUD it'll cost my wife her job. The "leadership" of my political party has decided to be complicit little bitches.

So tell me, Mr. Schadenfreude, what part of this did I fucking vote for?

 

[Sajuuk]

Screw up the automated system that a huge number of your citizens rely on for luxuries like food and shelter in a country where so many citizens have guns...sounds like a recipe for a nice, peaceful future.

It actually is a perfect recipe for genocide when you realize that most such citizens with guns are totally on the side of burning down the country and creating the opportunity to kill their [Black, Jewish, Muslim, queer, etc.] neighbors.

 

[Syphilitic]

As far as the Trump administration (and especially Musk) is concerned, if people don't get paid, that is a good thing, because it saves money.

Of course, if they make a mess of it, will old people who stop receiving their checks ever vote Republican again?

The thing is, like with most of the doge-shit, this will cost more in the end. After having to make good on cancelled contracts, and torrents of lawsuits - they're going to have to pay big to unfuck things - DOJ is hiring, and will be paying bigly to contract outside council to defend so much trumpfuckery. The chosen firms will be paid obscene amounts of taxpayer money to defend small cost cutting attempts and wildly overreaching EOs.

 

[Jordan83]

Glad I've already been conditioning myself for my whole life to not rely on Social Security for retirement. As in, I've already pretty much figured I wasn't going to get a single penny from it.

Thanks, previous generations, for never doing anything to fix what was already a flawed system that many of you got to take advantage of, and now you're going to surely break it. I have zero confidence this will go smoothly.

So this news sucks, but meh. Just further reinforces my confidence that I was never gonna see a penny from it anyway.

 

[1232]

As far as the Trump administration (and especially Musk) is concerned, if people don't get paid, that is a good thing, because it saves money.

Of course, if they make a mess of it, will old people who stop receiving their checks ever vote Republican again?

You assume there will be elections in four years.

 

[Covarde_Anonimo]

The point of this isn't to rewrite SSA, it's to funnel SSA through Musk's burgeoning American WeChat and, as a stretch goal, break SSA so badly that they can just do away with it entirely.

We need to stop sanewashing and positing that these twerps' intent is something noble but their methods are misguided.

They aren't.

They want to break the state and make money on the pieces. Everything else is window dressing.

They're so stupid, they don't realize that without the state, the Dollar is worth less that the paper it's printed on. If the state collapses, all countries that keep their reserves in Dollars will switch to Euro or Renmibi, the US stock markets will crash hard, it'll make the great depression look like a golden age by comparison.

They're killing the golden goose with a shotgun blast.

My advice to all good and decent person in the US right now is to leave while you can.

 

[raschumacher]

Well, as long as they don't shut off the old system until the new one is working...
---
Musk's current operating principle: Move Fast, Break Stuff, Don't Bother Fixing It (That's Somebody Else's Problem)

 

[Jordan83]

The political reality is that if they actually do fuck up SSI payments to the majority of recipients (not just the disabled and nursing home patients who they are targeting first) they will be in a pitchfork and torches moment. You cannot just wipe out the means of support to what, 1/3 of the population and expect no political pushbacks. Even MAGAits aren't that dumb (I think).

All this while simultaneously revamping the FAA air traffic control system. WhatcouldpossiblygoRIGHT?

Now, both systems are very much in need of considerable rewrite and reform. And Congress has managed to kick the can down the runway for decades. So some sort of shake up might be appropriate.

But not this way. It just cannot work. Unpossible.

I hate to be cynical, but I seriously doubt it.

After everything that has already been done and has been stated will be done, I have zero confidence whatsoever that seniors en masse will rise up in opposition of Trump.

I'll take the exact same approach to that notion that I've taken to the notion that Social Security itself would be part of my retirement - it would be nice, but I'm not counting on it, and I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[forkspoon]

Ignoring the substantial risk and arrogance involved here (and others already addressed), can someone give an informed high level overview of why there are so many millions of lines of code in this software?

It’s a genuine question. Like maybe their work is more complicated and multifaceted than I know. I’ve also never even looked at COBOL code, so maybe it’s relatively verbose? Also after so many decades, I imagine there’s a lot of brittle cruft that’s built up, and maybe even insider experts aren’t always sure what code can be safely removed in a refactoring project?

Ohh and I just realized a lot of the code could’ve been written long before remotely modern programming patterns were developed…