Volvo debuts its fully autonomous big rig truck powered by Aurora’s tech

Some believe autonomous trucks are the answer to a shortage of truck drivers.

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[Legatum_of_Kain]

Capitalists will do anything but pay a living wage and give drivers enough rest/time to safely deliver.

 

[fidget42]

I think the real solution to the shortage of truck drivers may be paying them a living wage, but I may be wrong.

 

[peterford]

I appreciate this is tangental, but my first reaction to the headline image was "that is one short truck".

 

[NameRedacted]

Autonomous trucking remains of interest to the freight industry due to ongoing shortages of commercial drivers

I would like to see at least some reporters challenging these “matter of fact” statements of “labour shortages”.

I think there’s probably a lot of people who would love to be commercial drivers. Have the companies thought of asking the potential drivers why they don’t want to do it, or do the companies just not actually want to know?

 

[NameRedacted]

I think the real solution to the shortage of truck drivers may be paying them a living wage, but I may be wrong.

But if the companies did that, then they would be taking employees away from other companies, and then those companies would also have to raise wages and that would start a spiral towards all humans having a living wage and that would be a disaster.

 

[Cthel]

working on hub-to-hub driverless freight systems for the North American market.

It really is a damning indictment of the state of US railroads that Trailer-on-flatcar trains aren't the optimal solution to this demand.

 

[ktmglen]

What if we put these autonomous trucks on rails? And then used a single cab to pull a long line of trailers? And had a small crew in each cab to oversee operation?

 

[NameRedacted]

People like free delivery. A quick google; at the turn of the century, there were 24 million working horses and ponies in the US....now, there are only around 4 million.

I'm sure there will still be a need for the 'last mile' delivery driver. It'll be a while yet before we have robots capable of grabbing your package and putting it at your front door.

Whew, good thing there’s not a shortage of false dichotomies!

What if I told you we could have “free delivery” and living wages for truck drivers?

 

[GPBurdell93]

More like, long-haul truck driving is a lonely miserable job that keeps you away from your family for long periods. The solution is to offer more money to entice drivers, but that's balanced against the unwillingness of purchasers--and by that I mean you, me and the next guy collectively--to pay more for the goods being shipped.

One solution to this problem was intermodal shipping. Long-haul was handled by trains, and regional hauling by trucks, so the jobs no longer required being away from home as much for so many (clearly the guys driving the train go long distances).

Note that current law/administrative ruling require 2 crew on the train at a minimum, and a train basically goes forward & backward--I'd think autonomous trains would be a lot easier to implement than autonomous trucks!

 

[arcite]

I would like to see at least some reporters challenging these “matter of fact” statements of “labour shortages”.

I think there’s probably a lot of people who would love to be commercial drivers. Have the companies thought of asking the potential drivers why they don’t want to do it, or do the companies just not actually want to know?

The US, like most developed economies, is suffering a demographic crisis. The population is quickly aging, people are having fewer children, the tax base is shrinking, and reactionary political forces are making massive immigration initiatives increasingly untenable. So....robots.

 

[fenris_uy]

It really is a damning indictment of the state of US railroads that Trailer-on-flatcar trains aren't the optimal solution to this demand.

Why would you need to move the trailer from hub to hub?

If the thing is already in a container, just ship the container and load it in a new trailer when it arrives at the hub.

Putting the trailer in the flatcar looks like a lot of added complexity compared with just shipping the container. Containers are already designed to be secured into the flatcars without much added work. And can be unloaded by a simple crane.

 

[jandrese]

What if we put these autonomous trucks on rails? And then used a single cab to pull a long line of trailers? And had a small crew in each cab to oversee operation?

You're going to need to install a hell of a lot more of those rails if you want to cover existing truck routes.

 

[Xyler]

So...

How much do one of these cost?
How much is the insurance for one of these?
How is the reliability of this system?

I have my high-doubts that these are a better solution than offering better pay to human drivers. There's a shortage of drivers because the downsides of trucking outweighs the benefits. It's not a lifestyle that suits many people, you need a specific lifestyle to have this as your work.

I don't mind Autonomous driving, but here's what I think needs to happen. For any Lv3+ system, the testing data should be public information. And it should have reports in all weather conditions. Snowy regions like where I live, snow/ice can easily build up around the Lidar tech, rendering this vehicle literally useless. In the winter, simple radar based backup sensors often have massive problems with ice and snow.

 

[Nazgutek]

If only there was a way to string lots of cargo carrying things together to reduce the number of staff needed per ton of freight.

 

[ktmglen]

People like free delivery. A quick google; at the turn of the century, there were 24 million working horses and ponies in the US....now, there are only around 4 million.

I'm sure there will still be a need for the 'last mile' delivery driver. It'll be a while yet before we have robots capable of grabbing your package and putting it at your front door.

Since manufacturers can, and often do, control final retail price at retailers, free shipping and customer service are the few ways a retailer can distinguish themselves in the marketplace. I don't expect free shipping, especially for larger purchases, to ever go away.

 

[gavron]

This old thing.

Never will happen. Insurance companies want someone to blame, and "the manufacturer" is not the answer, nor is the "owner". "Operator" is a computer. Nobody to blame. Cops are the same way.

There are already autonomous trucks going very fast all over the country. They're called "trains". It's like a "convoy" but is missing the cabs, drivers, highway issues, and Buford T. Justice.

 

[Tonkaman]

The US, like most developed economies, is suffering a demographic crisis. The population is quickly aging, people are having fewer children, the tax base is shrinking, and reactionary political forces are making massive immigration initiatives increasingly untenable. So....robots.

That's not actually true. Or at least it won't be for another generation or two. But that also comes back to a lack of wages. People can't afford to have children now, because simply affording a roof over your head and groceries requires 2 people to work. And then they don't have room in the budget for the second mortgage / rent payment that is childcare while they're both at work.

 

[Dumdums]

Trucking firms would gladly pay $200-300K for autonomous systems because they will recoup that investment in under 4 years because they don't have to pay human.

 

[foetusinc]

If only there were some kind of supra-corporate entity that could make some rules guaranteeing a livable wage and fair treatment for drivers, whilst ensuring a level playing field for companies that depend on shipping, so they can price shipping costs into their products without a race to the bottom. A governing body, if you will.

Nah, pure science fiction.

 

[gavron]

If only there was a way to string lots of cargo carrying things together to reduce the number of staff needed per ton of freight.

I like your thinking and would like to subscribe to your journal. Also I think we ninja'd each other.

 

[NameRedacted]

The US, like most developed economies, is suffering a demographic crisis. The population is quickly aging, people are having fewer children, the tax base is shrinking, and reactionary political forces are making massive immigration initiatives increasingly untenable. So....robots.

Just repeating the statements which I said need more editorial criticism doesn’t fix the need for more editorial criticism.

 

[Tonkaman]

You're going to need to install a hell of a lot more of those rails if you want to cover existing truck routes.

Many of those rails already exist. They were just abandoned and fell into disrepair after trucking deregulation allowed the trucking companies to undercut railroads by slashing wages and forcing costs of operation onto the drivers.

 

[gsgrego]

People like free delivery. A quick google; at the turn of the century, there were 24 million working horses and ponies in the US....now, there are only around 4 million.

I'm sure there will still be a need for the 'last mile' delivery driver. It'll be a while yet before we have robots capable of grabbing your package and putting it at your front door.

Amazon had 30 billion dollar profit last year, aka money that can only be either horded for later or go to shareholders and execs. They COULD pay a better wage.

Profits have gone up, costs have gone up, wages have nearly stagnated.

 

[Cthel]

Why would you need to move the trailer from hub to hub?

If the thing is already in a container, just ship the container and load it in a new trailer when it arrives at the hub.

I was assuming the principle demand was non-containerized cargo, where TOF avoids two transhipment moves (trailer to boxcar; boxcar to trailer) which are labour-intensive and time consuming.

Containerized cargo can indeed just be moved on a container car.

 

[rosen380]

Granted it is a single company and just a single region for that company (pay very well may vary from region to region), but I was helping out my cousin with a data project for a company with around 200 long and short haul drivers and the approximate median base salary was right around $100k. And there were all sorts of incentives that could add probably 20-25% to that.

Half-joking I was like, "are you guys hiring?" And she said, get a CDL and it is virtually guaranteed.

 

[sbradford26]

At least from a hardware perspective it seems like they are going in the right direction.

The VNL Autonomous has been designed for SAE level 4 autonomy and combines long-range lidar with radar, cameras, and other sensors. Input from these sensors is processed by a redundant pair of computers running Aurora's AI software.

Not saying that it automatically will be a proper autonomous system (SW is definitely the harder part of that) but they at least seam to be building a system that has hardware that can properly support reliable autonomous operation versus some other vehicle manufacturers out there.

 

[LG11]

The answer is less consumerism, more local production, and better wages for drivers, but ok.

 

[RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha]

I think the real solution to the shortage of truck drivers may be paying them a living wage, but I may be wrong.

There are problems like, having a normal family when you are on the road for days if not weeks, paying a mortage and insurance, and if independent-working to pay off that rig. Then there are fuel costs, and rates, and GPS to track as well as monitor/limit drive time for safety. Costs like food, fuel, overnight, showers, cleaning, parking, and tolls add up fast. Then the stress of asshole drivers, distracted drivers, and being alert as you are hauling tonnes at speed. Weather events, construction hazards and delays. Let's also talk about unhealthy lifestyle and diet. And then, there is the loneliness.
Basically, unless over the road, longhaul or specialty/logistics or private-owned freight hauling, why would anyone in their right mind commit to such a hazard and loss.

 

[gsgrego]

Amazon had 30 billion dollar profit last year, aka money that can only be either horded for later or go to shareholders and execs. They COULD pay a better wage.

Profits have gone up, costs have gone up, wages have nearly stagnated.

As a follow up.

Amazon could afford to pay 100,000 employees 5$ more an hour and it would only cost them 1/30 of their yearly profit.

 

[=j]

I appreciate this is tangental, but my first reaction to the headline image was "that is one short truck".

A very poorly framed photo. It took me the better part of a minute to discern that the white box at the back was painted on the building and not part of the truck.

 

[mir-teiwaz]

Let's be realistic: truck autopilot is about as likely to replace truck drivers in the next decade as aircraft autopilot is to replace airplane pilots. If well implemented, it can be a great tool to lighten the load for the driver, but there will be scenarios that require human intervention and therefore there will still be a human in the loop.

 

[mobby_6kl]

Capitalists will do anything but pay a living wage and give drivers enough rest/time to safely deliver.

Well yes but... things that can be automated will get automated. It really doesn't make sense not to, or we'd be hand-making candles instead of using mass-produced lighbulbs right now. Anyway, Volvo doesn't operate fleets or hire drivers.

Level 4 isn't supposed to require driver intervention, but also it can't operate under all conditions. I think it's likely that drivers would be still in the truck unless it's limited to some "safe" routes. And of course there's that California law that would require it anyway.

 

[Demosthenes642]

Many of those rails already exist. They were just abandoned and fell into disrepair after trucking deregulation allowed the trucking companies to undercut railroads by slashing wages and forcing costs of operation onto the drivers.

Unfortunately the railroads aren't exactly doing a bang up job of treating their employees well either. Sadly this trend seems to be universal, from food delivery folks to airline pilots and everything in between.

 

[strohminator]

If only there were some kind of supra-corporate entity that could make some rules guaranteeing a livable wage and fair treatment for drivers, whilst ensuring a level playing field for companies that depend on shipping, so they can price shipping costs into their products without a race to the bottom. A governing body, if you will.

Nah, pure science fiction.

I just returned from the South, and I have a great solution to the problem: Child immigrant drivers. If they can work in slaughterhouses, they can drive semis cross-country.

 

[=j]

There are problems like, having a normal family when you are on the road for days if not weeks, paying a mortage and insurance, and if independent-working to pay off that rig. Then there are fuel costs, and rates, and GPS to track as well as monitor/limit drive time for safety. Costs like food, fuel, overnight, showers, cleaning, parking, and tolls add up fast. Then the stress of asshole drivers, distracted drivers, and being alert as you are hauling tonnes at speed. Weather events, construction hazards and delays. Let's also talk about unhealthy lifestyle and diet. And then, there is the loneliness.
Basically, unless over the road, longhaul or specialty/logistics or private-owned freight hauling, why would anyone in their right mind commit to such a hazard and loss.

Any and all of those concerns can be addressed with higher wages.

 

[rawToe]

Capitalists will do anything but pay a living wage and give drivers enough rest/time to safely deliver.

I think you are confusing long haul trucking, which this appears to be designed for and amazon delivery trucks. Long haul drivers can easily make 6 figures these days. Also, there have been regulations on hours driven for decades.

edit. I saw a truck yesterday from one of the big US carriers with one of those "we're hiring" signs on it. "$2500 per week AFTER expenses, owner/operators higher rates". Pretty typical ad around here. Some will even pay to send you to CDL school. Certainly a living wage.