Tesla is recalling over 475,000 Model 3 and Model S vehicles

NHTSA fingers faulty wiring harness in the Model 3 and frunk latch in the Model S .

Read the whole story

 

[Aliester]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

While I hate dealerships with regards to purchasing cars, this is one of those times where the lack of dealerships overall is going to bite Tesla and its customers. Unless there's a big network of Tesla-experienced non-dealership repair shops that I don't know about?

At least for this recall it looks like it is a pretty trivial fix (installing a cable guard and replacing cable if there is visible wear). Their mobile service technicians should be able to fix this at the customer's house or workplace.

 

[BurntToShreds]

How long before Elon takes to Twitter regarding NHTSA "interference"?

Knowing Musk and his cult, they’ll probably mobilize to harass another woman off of Twitter.

 

[Uragan]

Gotta get them clickz huh? I think I’ll stop paying Ars if this is the crap that gets posted

If only Ars articles were as high quality as your posts, right?

 

[Got Nate?]

In two years and change owning a Model 3, our only repair experience was for a rattle in the driver front pillar (between windshield and side window.) I have to say, the whole experience from setting appointment to driving a Model S loaner during the couple of hours it was being fixed, to receiving a fixed car at the end was as good as any I've had in my many years of owning cars. But it remains to be seen if such a large number of service needs at once will overtax their service system. For the Model 3 recall, it is immediately obvious if the rearview camera is working or not, so I'm not really sure why that is even a mandatory recall instead of a warranty repair if it fails.

There are a couple reasons:
1) It affects a safety system. This is why my 14 year old Corolla got its air bag replaced for free in a recall.
2) The part is defective and is likely to fail. People outside of warranty deserve to have it replaced for free as well.

I’d guess it has more to do with it being part of a broader design or manufacturing defect rather than being a one off failure. The airbag control module in my 25yo civic is dead and I have to pay a dealer to get it replaced. Not sure what the rationale is, but multiple local mechanics have said they can’t do it.

The rationale is liability. They don't want to be held responsible if you get into a wreck and some part of a 25 yer old airbag system fails.

 

[Keith Tanner]

For those that done have a local repair center, this will involve a visit from a mobile tech. Not a big deal, they’ll come to your house.

Where I live, a recall like this on a BMW/Mazda/Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Audi/VW/Porsche…basically, anything but the US big 3, Honda or Toyota…would require me to drive nearly 500 miles round trip to have it performed. Tesla’s actually way ahead of most of the auto makers in coverage around here.

You'd probably also have had to make a 500 mile round trip to buy one of those cars. So probably most of the cars in your area have a local dealership that doesn't require a 500 mile round trip.

You are correct, you would have to make that same trip if you wanted to buy one new. And we don’t see a lot of new cars from those manufacturers.

But sometimes, those automakers offer something that someone might want and used cars travel around. I love my BMW E39 M5 but getting the Takata airbag recall performed involved an overnight trip for me, a two week loan of an X1 (awful car) and the dealership having to deliver the car when they were done with it because they couldn’t get the work done in time.

My point was that Tesla’s distributed model actually works better than the dealership model for our area of roughly 100,000 people. The manufacturer is responsible for service coverage instead of hoping that some entrepreneur will open a franchise.

Edited because word missing

 

[iamsupreme]

I have a 2019 P3D+. While an inconvenience, I think some of it comes down to where you live. In Phoenix, I was able to schedule to have an onsite technician from Tesla do the work. They've done it before to locate and fix an interior rattle in the front dash as well as a drive side handle issue I encountered. There are also two service centers, that I know of, in Scottsdale and Tempe. This will be a logistics issue for sure where there aren't large cities like Phoenix. If you get contacted as well, see if they will have the work done on site for you as well. Much more convenient.

 

[ctnnr]

Recalls were bound to happen for Tesla. They are part of life for any car maker. What is different for Tesla is the growing pains. They have an expanding fleet of cars. Some, like my Model 3 from 2019 are moving out of warranty and will need maintenance. Tesla built manufacturing, now they have build out to provide service. That is not happening fast enough. My experience is that there are delays in scheduling appointments, issues obtaining repair parts, inconvenience of long drives to a service center if you live away from a metro area, difficulty getting a human on the phone, and lastly, no independent mechanics who are able to do work under warranty. Car has been otherwise great.

The other thing I would add is that I do not understand the intensity of hatred for Elon expressed in some posts. He has vision, and what he has done has been amazing. Also, he's investing in new technology and in NA. Why not aim some of the ire you feel where is is really deserved like toward GM or AT&T? Neither has done anything remarkable in the last 20 years.

 

[Deleted member 545801]

Gotta get them clickz huh? I think I’ll stop paying Ars if this is the crap that gets posted

That would require you start paying for Ars.

 

[jimlux]

Leaving aside the fact that it's a Tesla, the rearview camera thing is interesting, since there's a move afoot to do away with physical rearview mirrors from all mfrs. They're air drag, they break, etc. The claim is that the rear pointing cameras are more reliable, work better in the dark (they do), they can be mounted so you can see small things (children, toys) behind you (they do).

However fragile physical mirrors are, though, it's unlikely a mfr would be faced with a recall for a significant fraction of its cars for failure. However, given the wiring and software for cameras, that *is* a possibility.

 

[medfordjim]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

While I hate dealerships with regards to purchasing cars, this is one of those times where the lack of dealerships overall is going to bite Tesla and its customers. Unless there's a big network of Tesla-experienced non-dealership repair shops that I don't know about?

I don't see this as being much of a problem. The issues these recalls deal with don't touch the engines and batteries and other things that make a BEV different from an ICEV. This skills and tools to fix this are already available in every good garage and autobody shop that fixes ICE cars.

Except most manufacturers will not pay for warranty/recall work performed at non-dealer repair shops.

 

[ranthog]

In two years and change owning a Model 3, our only repair experience was for a rattle in the driver front pillar (between windshield and side window.) I have to say, the whole experience from setting appointment to driving a Model S loaner during the couple of hours it was being fixed, to receiving a fixed car at the end was as good as any I've had in my many years of owning cars. But it remains to be seen if such a large number of service needs at once will overtax their service system. For the Model 3 recall, it is immediately obvious if the rearview camera is working or not, so I'm not really sure why that is even a mandatory recall instead of a warranty repair if it fails.

There are a couple reasons:
1) It affects a safety system. This is why my 14 year old Corolla got its air bag replaced for free in a recall.
2) The part is defective and is likely to fail. People outside of warranty deserve to have it replaced for free as well.

I’d guess it has more to do with it being part of a broader design or manufacturing defect rather than being a one off failure. The airbag control module in my 25yo civic is dead and I have to pay a dealer to get it replaced. Not sure what the rationale is, but multiple local mechanics have said they can’t do it.

The point is more so that since the defective wiring harness disables a safety system Tesla must offer a recall as long as the car is 15 year old or less. Tesla cannot legally handle this as a warranty repair.

If it isn't a systemic problem, a safety system, or emissions controls I believe that automakers have more flexibility on how to handle things. But recalling parts that are defective and you know a large amount of them will fail is a good thing for the consumer as they can proactively get it fixed instead of waiting for them to fail.

 

[Uragan]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

There are about 170 service center in the U.S at the moment.

Keep in mind that while the volume is large, the actual repair takes much less time in an ev with less parts than an equivalent gas car

Are you really trying to say that a BEV trunk latch or wiring harness somehow less complex than that of an ICEV?

 

[AusPeter]

Leaving aside the fact that it's a Tesla, the rearview camera thing is interesting, since there's a move afoot to do away with physical rearview mirrors from all mfrs. They're air drag, they break, etc. The claim is that the rear pointing cameras are more reliable, work better in the dark (they do), they can be mounted so you can see small things (children, toys) behind you (they do).

However fragile physical mirrors are, though, it's unlikely a mfr would be faced with a recall for a significant fraction of its cars for failure. However, given the wiring and software for cameras, that *is* a possibility.

Given that mirrors are required as per a federal standard, wouldn't it literally take an act of congress to do away with them?

And while you list the benefits of doing away with mirrors you don't list the issues of doing away with mirrors. Such as mirrors are 2-way devices wheres cameras are not, and mirrors simply work where as cameras require a whole slew of supporting systems

 

[ranthog]

For those that done have a local repair center, this will involve a visit from a mobile tech. Not a big deal, they’ll come to your house.

Where I live, a recall like this on a BMW/Mazda/Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Audi/VW/Porsche…basically, anything but the US big 3, Honda or Toyota…would require me to drive nearly 500 miles round trip to have it performed. Tesla’s actually way ahead of most of the auto makers in coverage around here.

You'd probably also have had to make a 500 mile round trip to buy one of those cars. So probably most of the cars in your area have a local dealership that doesn't require a 500 mile round trip.

You are correct, you would have to make that same trip if you wanted to buy one new. And we don’t see a lot of new cars from those manufacturers.

But sometimes, those automakers offer something that someone might want and used cars travel around. I love my BMW E39 M5 but getting the Takata airbag recall performed involved an overnight trip for, a two week loan of an X1 (awful car) and the dealership having to deliver the car when they were done with it because they couldn’t get the work done in time.

My point was that Tesla’s distributed model actually works better than the dealership model for our area of roughly 100,000 people. The manufacturer is responsible for service coverage instead of hoping that some entrepreneur will open a franchise.

How in the hell did a Takata airbag recall take more than an hour? I had it done twice on my car and was in and out of the shop within an hour.

My point is that this is pretty much an irrelevant difference for the vast majority of people.

 

[kkeane]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

I'm certainly not a Tesla lover, but as far as I'm concerned, a big nothingburger. This is the type of recall all manufacturers have to deal with from time to time. No worse than GM's problem with the ignition switches a few years ago, for instance.

 

[No one you know]

Definitely wouldn't want the frunk popping open.

Would the Model S drivers even notice?

 

[Astro-CCD]

How long before Elon takes to Twitter regarding NHTSA "interference"?

Probably not long. He is already whining about people complaining about his space-polluting starlink system.

Elon has an ego to match his net worth. Sooner or later he is gonna kill off his own companies with his craziness. He has begun to believe his own alternate reality. This has happened many times before with entrepreneurs, just not at this scale.

 

[Photon_plumber]

In the case of the Model 3 and potentially defective camera/wiring, that’s something that in the past I would have waited on, on any car I owned with similar nuisance issues, until a larger problem really forced me into taking it into the shop. As long as the car still drives, small things like that wouldn't bother me. The free recall repair is still good.

 

[Deleted member 46272]

Recalls were bound to happen for Tesla. They are part of life for any car maker. What is different for Tesla is the growing pains. They have an expanding fleet of cars. Some, like my Model 3 from 2019 are moving out of warranty and will need maintenance. Tesla built manufacturing, now they have build out to provide service. That is not happening fast enough. My experience is that there are delays in scheduling appointments, issues obtaining repair parts, inconvenience of long drives to a service center if you live away from a metro area, difficulty getting a human on the phone, and lastly, no independent mechanics who are able to do work under warranty. Car has been otherwise great.

The other thing I would add is that I do not understand the intensity of hatred for Elon expressed in some posts. He has vision, and what he has done has been amazing. Also, he's investing in new technology and in NA. Why not aim some of the ire you feel where is is really deserved like toward GM or AT&T? Neither has done anything remarkable in the last 20 years.

Not speaking for anyone but myself, but while I whole-heartedly agree with you regarding his technical vision and drive, he seems to be an awful human being who lacks empathy towards society and his Tesla factory workers. Much of it came to light in a very public way with how he treated his workers during the Covid pandemic. He also comes across very infantile and narcissistic in his taunts on Twitter with public officials.

 

[madmax559]

Definitely wouldn't want the frunk popping open.

Would the Model S drivers even notice?

Yes, you would get warning indicators all over the display if you tried to drive

 

[Deleted member 553147]

Gotta get them clickz huh? I think I’ll stop paying Ars if this is the crap that gets posted

A recall of 475.000 of the highest profile EVs is not something you think Ars should mention?

 

[AusPeter]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

I'm certainly not a Tesla lover, but as far as I'm concerned, a big nothingburger. This is the type of recall all manufacturers have to deal with from time to time. No worse than GM's problem with the ignition switches a few years ago, for instance.

However I don't recall Tesla denying this or fighting over this or paying out a $121 million class action settlement.

 

[Keith Tanner]

For those that done have a local repair center, this will involve a visit from a mobile tech. Not a big deal, they’ll come to your house.

Where I live, a recall like this on a BMW/Mazda/Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Audi/VW/Porsche…basically, anything but the US big 3, Honda or Toyota…would require me to drive nearly 500 miles round trip to have it performed. Tesla’s actually way ahead of most of the auto makers in coverage around here.

You'd probably also have had to make a 500 mile round trip to buy one of those cars. So probably most of the cars in your area have a local dealership that doesn't require a 500 mile round trip.

You are correct, you would have to make that same trip if you wanted to buy one new. And we don’t see a lot of new cars from those manufacturers.

But sometimes, those automakers offer something that someone might want and used cars travel around. I love my BMW E39 M5 but getting the Takata airbag recall performed involved an overnight trip for, a two week loan of an X1 (awful car) and the dealership having to deliver the car when they were done with it because they couldn’t get the work done in time.

My point was that Tesla’s distributed model actually works better than the dealership model for our area of roughly 100,000 people. The manufacturer is responsible for service coverage instead of hoping that some entrepreneur will open a franchise.

How in the hell did a Takata airbag recall take more than an hour? I had it done twice on my car and was in and out of the shop within an hour.

My point is that this is pretty much an irrelevant difference for the vast majority of people.

Scheduling error? The fact the the car had an airbag deployment in its backstory? I don’t know, you can call Schomp BMW in Denver and ask if you really want to know. But it happened. And if you were me, you would have made a second 500 mile round trip to have it done in your car a second time apparently.

You may think it’s irrelevant for your perception of the vast majority, but it’s true that dealership coverage is not perfect for established automakers and that Tesla’s coverage is greater than you think. We have a lot of Teslas in town, far more than we have new BMWs or Mazdas. This is despite the fact that the physical dealership situation is the same. People assume that this physical location footprint means no service. My point is that it does not - unlike those traditional dealerships, the Tesla service footprint is far larger than it appears.

 

[puppies]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

I wondered about that and found that as of Q3 this year they've sold 2 million Teslas globally, so this recall constitutes almost a quarter of all the cars they've ever sold.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Recalls were bound to happen for Tesla. They are part of life for any car maker. What is different for Tesla is the growing pains. They have an expanding fleet of cars. Some, like my Model 3 from 2019 are moving out of warranty and will need maintenance. Tesla built manufacturing, now they have build out to provide service. That is not happening fast enough. My experience is that there are delays in scheduling appointments, issues obtaining repair parts, inconvenience of long drives to a service center if you live away from a metro area, difficulty getting a human on the phone, and lastly, no independent mechanics who are able to do work under warranty. Car has been otherwise great.

The other thing I would add is that I do not understand the intensity of hatred for Elon expressed in some posts. He has vision, and what he has done has been amazing. Also, he's investing in new technology and in NA. Why not aim some of the ire you feel where is is really deserved like toward GM or AT&T? Neither has done anything remarkable in the last 20 years.

If you peruse any of the non Tesla threads on Ars, you will find plenty of angst, anger and annoyance at pretty much any car manufacturer - or even pretty much any tech manufacturer. Comes with the territory.

 

[Deleted member 46272]

Leaving aside the fact that it's a Tesla, the rearview camera thing is interesting, since there's a move afoot to do away with physical rearview mirrors from all mfrs. They're air drag, they break, etc. The claim is that the rear pointing cameras are more reliable, work better in the dark (they do), they can be mounted so you can see small things (children, toys) behind you (they do).

However fragile physical mirrors are, though, it's unlikely a mfr would be faced with a recall for a significant fraction of its cars for failure. However, given the wiring and software for cameras, that *is* a possibility.

Mirrors allow you to move your head around to quickly change the view angle, they are cheap to repair/replace, significantly less complex (camera, wiring, screen, control systems, etc), they are passive devices that work regardless of the power situation on the car. A mirror can't really fail due to age - modern adhesives are pretty much bulletproof now.

I know that rear-view cameras tend to become useless very quickly in heavy rain/snow because it only takes a few small flecks of dirt to obscure a small camera lens. That's much less of an issue with mirrors. Will side-few camera lenses need wipers?

I'm not a "every car must have a stick-shift" kind of guy, embrace EVs, etc, but side-view cameras are still a "concept car" device, IMHO.

 

[Derecho Imminent]

Definitely wouldn't want the frunk popping open.

Especially considering that kind of thing is mostly prone to happening on the freeway. Had it happen to me after someone failed to properly close the hood.

 

[Amos]

Heh, my now 20 year old E46 BMW had the same issue with the wiring harness in the trunk wearing out and leading to all kinds of electrical gremlins, including flickering brake lights. A very common problem for these cars but no recall was ever done.


I guess HTSA is a bit more serious nowadays

 

[Derecho Imminent]

Sounds like more OT in the forecast.

 

[FohENG]

I used to do investigations for Transport Canada that could lead to recalls or service bulletins on vehicles.

That said, the frunk recall makes perfect sense from a safety standpoint. Can’t have your hood opening while driving and obstructing your view. It’s a serious potential safety issue.

The rear view camera one I’m confused about. It’s not required for backing up/parking as you also have mirrors. And lots of cars don’t have rear view cameras so they’re not a requirement. So I’m not sure why this required an actual recall since the vehicle still operates fine if the camera fails (like could also happen if it gets covered by snow, ice or dirt).

 

[ranthog]

I used to do investigations for Transport Canada that could lead to recalls or service bulletins on vehicles.

That said, the frunk recall makes perfect sense from a safety standpoint. Can’t have your hood opening while driving and obstructing your view. It’s a serious potential safety issue.

The rear view camera one I’m confused about. It’s not required for backing up/parking as you also have mirrors. And lots of cars don’t have rear view cameras so they’re not a requirement. So I’m not sure why this required an actual recall since the vehicle still operates fine if the camera fails (like could also happen if it gets covered by snow, ice or dirt).

As of a few years ago rear view cameras are required safety equipment in the US.

 

[kkeane]

I used to do investigations for Transport Canada that could lead to recalls or service bulletins on vehicles.

That said, the frunk recall makes perfect sense from a safety standpoint. Can’t have your hood opening while driving and obstructing your view. It’s a serious potential safety issue.

The rear view camera one I’m confused about. It’s not required for backing up/parking as you also have mirrors. And lots of cars don’t have rear view cameras so they’re not a requirement. So I’m not sure why this required an actual recall since the vehicle still operates fine if the camera fails (like could also happen if it gets covered by snow, ice or dirt).

Rearview cameras are mandatory safety equipment in the US, so they have to work.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

I used to do investigations for Transport Canada that could lead to recalls or service bulletins on vehicles.

That said, the frunk recall makes perfect sense from a safety standpoint. Can’t have your hood opening while driving and obstructing your view. It’s a serious potential safety issue.

The rear view camera one I’m confused about. It’s not required for backing up/parking as you also have mirrors. And lots of cars don’t have rear view cameras so they’re not a requirement. So I’m not sure why this required an actual recall since the vehicle still operates fine if the camera fails (like could also happen if it gets covered by snow, ice or dirt).

Rear cameras are required in the US. There was a camera recall on my car because they found some had an issue where they wouldn't work some of the time, so they just went ahead and replaced all of them to be safe. That's how you have to treat a safety system.

Damn, ninja'd twice. That was quick.

 

[kkeane]

So Tesla still hasn’t figured out the whole “building vehicles” part of building electric vehicles, huh?

There is a lot to criticize Tesla for. This isn't it; it's the typical type of issue that any car manufacturer has to deal with from time to time.

 

[Derecho Imminent]

I used to do investigations for Transport Canada that could lead to recalls or service bulletins on vehicles.

That said, the frunk recall makes perfect sense from a safety standpoint. Can’t have your hood opening while driving and obstructing your view. It’s a serious potential safety issue.

The rear view camera one I’m confused about. It’s not required for backing up/parking as you also have mirrors. And lots of cars don’t have rear view cameras so they’re not a requirement. So I’m not sure why this required an actual recall since the vehicle still operates fine if the camera fails (like could also happen if it gets covered by snow, ice or dirt).

The rear view camera is one of the best new things added to the car. Just going from my own personal feelings while using it it has greatly increased safety while backing up.

 

[conan77]

Heh, my now 20 year old E46 BMW had the same issue with the wiring harness in the trunk wearing out and leading to all kinds of electrical gremlins, including flickering brake lights. A very common problem for these cars but no recall was ever done.


I guess HTSA is a bit more serious nowadays

20 year old BMW.
Vs how old are the cars we’re talking about here?

 

[motytrah]

Ouch, that's a very significant portion of all Tesla's on the road in the USA, and it's not like Tesla has a large network of repair centers.

Is it, though I would say Tesla is due for some kind of massive recall. I don't know any automaker that's been able to avoid them.

 

[Amos]

Heh, my now 20 year old E46 BMW had the same issue with the wiring harness in the trunk wearing out and leading to all kinds of electrical gremlins, including flickering brake lights. A very common problem for these cars but no recall was ever done.


I guess HTSA is a bit more serious nowadays

20 year old BMW.
Vs how old are the cars we’re talking about here?

This was a problem that started 15 years ago for these cars, it's just 20 years old now.