Review: Framework’s Laptop 16 is unique, laudable, fascinating, and flawed
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I wish they made a 13 inch foldable/convertible. I know that is probably a niche they won't fill because it is too small a user base. Maybe I should just get the 13 and move on. I just want something for writing and being able to draw on it would be a plus. I like computers better than someone like an iPad because I like to make my own choices instead of being based on apples choices or another company's choices.
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pretty clever idea
i have a FW13, and I use an eGPU with it. It works well enough that i've gotten rid of my desktop gaming machine. I can play Apex Legends and others at near max graphics. That said, i can Frostpunk and others with just the integrated chip as well when I'm on the go.
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How easily can the GPU module be swapped out? Do you just click one out then click another in, or does it involve screws and ESD protection? Can I just grab the bits I need when heading out, or would I need to plan ahead?
Either way is a great improvement over standard laptops, but the second would open up a load more possibilities, like DrewW's idea above.
Either way is a great improvement over standard laptops, but the second would open up a load more possibilities, like DrewW's idea above.
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TheMolesRevenge
Ars Praetorian
That was an interesting read, I think I'm going to be digesting it for a little while. I'd been seriously considering the FW16 as a replacement for my 10-year-old brick of a Clevo since my primary use-case is a desktop replacement that I can haul from place rather than something to use while in motion.
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Should the first battery assessment have been "withOUT the external graphics module..."? (emphasis mine)
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You will have to remove the keyboard and screw-in an interposer cable:
guides.frame.work/Guide/Install+Graphics+Module/271
Honestly I am a bit puzzled by all of this. Framework will be one of very few companies to sell a GPU in a form factor that is compatible with a single machine only (since it is form-factor dependent, it won't fit even in an hypothetical framework 15 or 14). Sound like a step back compared to for example MxM.
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It reminds me of the extended battery on my X61t ThinkPad. On that, it was actually a feature, because it was rubber-coated and easily gripped in tablet mode.
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I respect the concept of the modular laptop, but I wonder if it’s necessary to have all ports be swapable. Couldn’t considerable space be saved by including say 1 permanent USB C port on each side, letting you customize the remaining slots as you desire?
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I was thinking the same thing; it could also have helped with the port confusion by making these the most fully featured ones that cover all of your important needs.
I don't know much about the I/O options for these chips though to be honest, but fixed ports = faster, swappable = slower but customisable seems more intuitive to me.
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Thanks for the review. I'm thinking of upgrading my laptop.
I was disappointed to discover that my HP with it's nasty little integrated Intel GPU can't support two 4k screens. Can the framework 16 support three of them? Would I need the external GPU or can the internal GPU do that?
I was disappointed to discover that my HP with it's nasty little integrated Intel GPU can't support two 4k screens. Can the framework 16 support three of them? Would I need the external GPU or can the internal GPU do that?
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Nice review!
Couple of typos I noticed:
"Those problems are compounded for the Laptop 13" Shouldn't this be the "Laptop 16"?
And here:
"with the external graphics module, the 85 WHr battery manages a little over eight hours in our PCMark 10 battery test."
I think that is without the graphics module as the first sentence of the next paragraph states that the battery life with graphics module installed "was just over five hours."
Couple of typos I noticed:
"Those problems are compounded for the Laptop 13" Shouldn't this be the "Laptop 16"?
And here:
"with the external graphics module, the 85 WHr battery manages a little over eight hours in our PCMark 10 battery test."
I think that is without the graphics module as the first sentence of the next paragraph states that the battery life with graphics module installed "was just over five hours."
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A touch panel would be a nice compromise. I rarely convert my convertible--other than tenting for use on a desk with an external keyboard and mouse, it's in standard mode--but I use the touchscreen to scroll content or touch buttons all the time.
I'd love to see Framework's take on corporate-fleet Surface clones like the HP Elite X2, Dell Latitude 5200 or ThinkPad X1 Tablet. I have the X2 and it's actually really nice: completely servicable (four screws and the panel comes off!) and upgradable (save for the CPU, RAM & WiFi card). It's a niche that everyone but Microsoft seems to have abandoned, though.
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I'm in batch 1 for FW16 and can't wait for it to ship - my main usecase was a 16" matte display as i'm planning to do sustained programming on the go and have grown tired of squinting or having to zoom in on my XPS 13. The rest, if it works, is just added bonus.
The price is def a clincher, but I managed to swing it through my work, so, whew!
The price is def a clincher, but I managed to swing it through my work, so, whew!
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I'm a bit disappointed by the expansion module swapping method. I was hoping it would be as easy and fast as the other modules. Plug it in when you come home to game, take it out when you want more battery life / less weight.
But this takes disassembling the keyboard and a couple minutes, definitely not something you just do for a quick round of <GAME>. I have the feeling most people will just leave it permanently attached, except for when swapping in a new GPU.
I'm curious to see what sort of other expansion modules there will be (a battery one would be nice).
But this takes disassembling the keyboard and a couple minutes, definitely not something you just do for a quick round of <GAME>. I have the feeling most people will just leave it permanently attached, except for when swapping in a new GPU.
I'm curious to see what sort of other expansion modules there will be (a battery one would be nice).
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I suppose, in theory, future GPU expansion modules could use a two-part approach, one the GPU itself and one the bit that is customized to the FW laptop in question, which the GPU component fits inside of. That sounds like a real headache to actually make work, though.
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About the pricing point, Definitely agree it is on the pricier side but I would still consider it since you get to upgrade only what you need in the Future, which puts much more focus on the frame itself being a long lasting one.
That said, when trying to see if I could get it a bit cheaper as DIY, I was confused on the DIY price being so close to the premade one. Apparently that is because Framework assembles the laptop for QA reasons, and then disassembles it for you to make which eventually does not reduce any labour costs.
Maybe they need an "I'm feeling lucky" DIY purchase option
( just joking, of course DOA and Warranty returns would cost eventually as well )
That said, when trying to see if I could get it a bit cheaper as DIY, I was confused on the DIY price being so close to the premade one. Apparently that is because Framework assembles the laptop for QA reasons, and then disassembles it for you to make which eventually does not reduce any labour costs.
Maybe they need an "I'm feeling lucky" DIY purchase option
( just joking, of course DOA and Warranty returns would cost eventually as well )
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The only thing stopping me is the damn keyboard layout. One would have thought that there's never been a better placed laptop to offer the choice to people who want full-sized arrow keys and/or dedicated home/end/page keys. Yet this isn't something they offer.
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As far as I remember, mxm didn't really provide modularity, that was up to the manufacturer of the laptop. I don't even know if mxm is still a current form factor being sold. But I see your main point, perhaps we will see some new hardware on the future from them?
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A couple of points:
- The keyboard uses QMK, so anyone with the technical skills could make an offline configuration tool. There's also some pre-made configuration tools like VIAL, though someone would maybe have to make the existing firmware compatible first. Having QMK built-in is one of the big reasons I'm getting a Framework 16 (though it sounds like it could be a while before there's a split ortho-linear keyboard module, as it isn't compatible with the usual homemade keyboard switches).
- One significant advantage of the expansion ports is that it puts the daily wear onto a (relatively) inexpensive dongle. That means that, most of the time, a physically broken port won't require a major repair or replacing the (expensive) mainboard and CPU. I'm also glad that I'll be able to make sure the critical ports I'll need to "dock" will all be on one side of the laptop -- I'll have to use multiple cords until someone comes out with a 180W+ USB4 dock that will allow me to go down to one or two plugs (since I'll likely connect my center 4k monitor directly to the GPU in the back regardless).
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With all the excitement of upgrading, we lose sight of Framework's focus: repairability. You are right. Due to the nature of the smell business, it is more expensive than other comparable laptops, but imagine spending $1500 on a laptop and your kid spills juice on the keyboard and you have to take it in to a repair shop and spend a few hundred bucks on repair, when just pulling a few tabs and swapping it out can be done here. It's different thinking than we've been conditioned to over the years with modern laptopsAbout the pricing point, Definitely agree it is on the pricier side but I would still consider it since you get to upgrade only what you need in the Future, which puts much more focus on the frame itself being a long lasting one.
That said, when trying to see if I could get it a bit cheaper as DIY, I was confused on the DIY price being so close to the premade one. Apparently that is because Framework assembles the laptop for QA reasons, and then disassembles it for you to make which eventually does not reduce any labour costs.
Maybe they need an "I'm feeling lucky" DIY purchase option
( just joking, of course DOA and Warranty returns would cost eventually as well )
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As discussed in other posts, swapping out the graphics module is a little bit of work. Also, while they have put in some time to make the interface survive a reasonable number of cycles, I'm not sure how long 2 daily swaps would go before you've worn out one of the components involved.
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About the speakers: Apple does half the work in software. https://asahilinux.org/2024/01/fedora-asahi-new/ (section "speakers"), There might be a possibility to create framework specific filters.
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MXM was a cool thing when it wa around, but it is all but dead now; as GPUs started getting bigger and bigger, first you started to see contorted/large-size MXM cards with an extra power connector to connect that wouldn't work in older systems or between laptop manufacturers; and nowadays you just see GPUs soldered onto the motherboard or fully installed on fully custom cards.
The great thing about this design is that it allows the laptop's physical size to grow or shrink depending on what you need, so it should be future-proof. If in five years they want to release a version with a larger GPU that needs more cooling, they just .... put it in one of these enclosures and include larger fans + heatsink with it as well. The "butt" on the back of your laptop might stick out more (and the module might be a bit "taller" too) but you'll still be able to use it with the same laptop! And if they want to release one that needs more power then they can move the power input to the expansion module and let it take 330W input or whatever. (They do have pins in place that would allow power to flow to the laptop through the expansion bay module, I believe.)
The obvious downside is, as you say, you are stuck with this 16" form factor. If Framework were to release an 18" laptop, then the 16" expansion bay / GPU modules would most likely not be compatible with it...
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Exactly. Almost every laptop I've replaced has been replaced because some small piece broke (from plugging and unplugging, or something that came loose over time, or other day-to-day wear). As a result, I've had to replace almost every laptop I've owned within about 4 years. When something like that breaks on the Framework, I should just be able to fix the broken piece.
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I get what you mean, but the AMD chipset is pretty good, tests well. Future versions will likely even offer the AMD Zen 5 chips, perhaps even the Strix Point 12 core, 16 CU if it fits thermally. AMD has been growing performance and efficient a lot in each generation.
Or, perhaps they will offer a Snapdragon Elite chipset, which would be a great option. Anyway, something to keep an eye on
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Seen THAT would be interesting. Same chassis, Intel, AMD, or ARM versions.
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This is a Linux “install and forget” laptop too so it’s on my short list.
I can’t believe there’s a full AMD laptop out there that doesn’t break the bank.
I can’t believe there’s a full AMD laptop out there that doesn’t break the bank.
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Well the laptop is already very long compared to the average 16", but I see the point now.
MxM has always been kind of dead, but it seems to be somewhat still relevant in some applications.
There are even intel modules now:
https://iot.asus.com/gpu-edge-ai-accelerators/google-tpu/filter?Series=MXM-GPU-Module
I just wished the expansion module was something similar to the old thinkpad expansion bay: "standardized" and quick to replace.
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Tangential, I know, but I'm extremely impressed with the Ashai Linux team. That was a great write-up, and it's funny how often they seem to run in to a "Linux could do X, but nobody has bothered" solution to a problem that will benefit the entire Linux community.
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This is going to be a dumb questions, buy why is the hinge where it's at? I notice quite a few more modern laptops have the hinge about 1/2" from the end so there's a little lip there when it's folded open,
Is this a design thing for less stress or simply a cosmetic thing?
Is this a design thing for less stress or simply a cosmetic thing?
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I also feel like they could probably fit 2 USB-C on a single module. The USB-A module, might have room to be a 1xUSB-A and 1xUSB-C module.
Or on the audio expansion module, why not use the space available and put in 1xIn and 1xOut rather than a single combo port? Or maybe use the extra space for a USB-C? Same for the MicroSD module.
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Thanks for that nice review.
I would agree on most about the price point vs. features except...
THe review does not put much emphasis on upgradeability and durability.
If I buy that laptop today without the GPU, grab a new GPU in two years, a new mobo in 5,... I would have a first-ish class laptop for 10 years, with spare parts & all, for the price of ... 1,5 laptop ? (and recycle the older mobo in a light desktop).
It looks to me like an acceptable trade-off. It helps the planet a bit too. Supporting a brand that provide spare parts and upgrade for years seems so much in the right direction. Looks like a no brainer in the (very) long run.
I would agree on most about the price point vs. features except...
THe review does not put much emphasis on upgradeability and durability.
If I buy that laptop today without the GPU, grab a new GPU in two years, a new mobo in 5,... I would have a first-ish class laptop for 10 years, with spare parts & all, for the price of ... 1,5 laptop ? (and recycle the older mobo in a light desktop).
It looks to me like an acceptable trade-off. It helps the planet a bit too. Supporting a brand that provide spare parts and upgrade for years seems so much in the right direction. Looks like a no brainer in the (very) long run.
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