F1 2024

[trukker]

Isn't the point of the points to point out the winner (no surprise it's Max again). No change at the top means the old system is working just fine.
They just corrupt things by awarding prize money based on finishing order. Liberty should change that rather than the points, everybody is an equal part of the entertainment spectacle so they deserve to get paid the same.

If you need to know who is ahead in the lower order the the old F1.5 system of deleting the top team from the calculations. I guess now you may have to remove a few extra teams, potentially half the grid.

 

[jbode]

Meh. Award points to everyone who finishes; if nothing else, it gives you another stick to deal with drivers who are willing to eat time penalties for passing off track or whatever.

Or, as someone said in the comments on the Race article, make it an odd number so the cutoff is guaranteed to split a team; that could make things more interesting.

 

[zeotherm]

I almost forgot. During the sprint race (possibly qualy?), the camera paused on a guy in the stands holding up a red banner that read: "I'm so stupid! I'm so stupid!"

Is this a reference that I don't get, or is a douchey vendor selling prank items to fans who don't read English?

I saw that too and wondered the exact same thing!

 

[Tijger]

I disagree with the proposed new points system, it feels too much like giving out participation tropies and that shouldnt be part of F1.

In fairness, I was fine with the old 1-6 getting points system as well but I can live with 1-10 getting points but 1-12? Come on, thats just ridiculous.

 

[Kilkenny]

I'm basically going to copy/paste my take on points reform from last year's thread. My opinion has not yet changed.

I've thought that points all the way down should be a thing for a while now. I know that when it comes up for discussion a lot of self-professed "old-schoolers" are usually very negative on it, who are of the mindset that points are rewards for success, so "rewarding" cars towards the back of the grid was wrong in some way (ie "participation trophies").

However, as an old-schooler myself who's been watching F1 since Gilles Villeneuve was on track (yes, Gilles, not Jacques), I'm more of the mind that points are first & foremost a classification system, and the difference between a driver that consistently finishes 16th should still be recognized in the points standings over someone who's usually finishing 19th (both outside the points currently). And not just because he managed to eke out an extra 10th spot or two (see: when Kubica outranked Russell at Williams despite just finishing ahead of him one single time all season - but that one time was a mixed up rain race where he finished 10th).

For people who want them to be rewards, well that's why the point distribution is a curve with leaders getting greater point advantages over the person behind them as you move up the standings.

Also, it makes ranking more transparent to the fans. When you have a bunch of runners (like right now early in a season) with no points, how are their position in the standings determined? Sure if you spreadsheeted every race result & applied the tie-breaking rules (or just look at the official rankings & don't think abut it), that becomes evident, but then again, at different times the tie-breaking rules have been a bit opaque themselves. So just give everyone point all the way down. Really, the only position(s) that shouldn't have points are 20th (in a full 20-car field where everyone finishes) and DNFs/DNSs.

 

[Kilkenny]

I almost forgot. During the sprint race (possibly qualy?), the camera paused on a guy in the stands holding up a red banner that read: "I'm so stupid! I'm so stupid!"

Is this a reference that I don't get, or is a douchey vendor selling prank items to fans who don't read English?

It's a Leclerc meme from when he f'd up at Baku & drove in the wall in qualifying (when he had a really good chance at pole) and he called that out on the radio. As I recall when there were a lot of streaming races during the pandemic lockdowns, he played into it some so it kept going a bit.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS4Me48wayM

 

[Doomlord_uk]

Maybe it's 1-12 because there's a couple of new teams joining the grid?

 

[Technarch]

I disagree with the proposed new points system, it feels too much like giving out participation tropies and that shouldnt be part of F1.

In fairness, I was fine with the old 1-6 getting points system as well but I can live with 1-10 getting points but 1-12? Come on, thats just ridiculous.

We could leave points as they are for places 1-10, but make 15th position worth five points. That should make for some interesting back-of-the-grid strategy.

 

[mlewis]

I disagree with the proposed new points system, it feels too much like giving out participation tropies and that shouldnt be part of F1.

In fairness, I was fine with the old 1-6 getting points system as well but I can live with 1-10 getting points but 1-12? Come on, thats just ridiculous.

MotoGP awards points down to 15th place. It works just fine and has done for many years. Why can't something similar work in F1? Of course it could with no issue apart from people who don't like change.

 

[HydraShok]

Scuderia Ferrari HP begins in two weeks, I guess. Maybe they needed to have another title sponsor after spending so much money to get Hamilton?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-hewlett-packard-title-sponsorship-announced

 

[Diabolical]

Scuderia Ferrari HP begins in two weeks, I guess. Maybe they needed to have another title sponsor after spending so much money to get Hamilton?

I think it’s more that they need a new sponsor since so many countries frowned at the Phillip Morris “Mission Winnow” that Ferrari pretty much dropped them from the car and name after 2021.

Phillip Morris International is still a sponsor, but they haven’t been the Title Sponsor in a few years. In fact, Ferrari didn’t have a title sponsor the last few years. And that was probably less to do with principals or need for cash and more that they couldn’t find someone to pay (what I assume are) the exorbitant fees to have your name next to theirs.

So either they lowered the fee - which I doubt, Ferrari S.p.A. is an extremely profitable auto manufacturer - or more likely they finally found someone willing to pay the price.


And remember, a huge portion of the (rumored, as we don’t know the details) deal with Hamilton is financial support for his foundation from Elkann (and his family) personally, and not by the team / publicly traded company.

 

[swiftdraw]

BBC has verified Newey is planning to leave Red Bull before his contact ends next year. He believes he can negotiate an early exit.

 

[HydraShok]

Newey to leave Red Bull in 2025?

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/2721...nue-without-newey-in-2025-top-man-leaves.html
EDIT: Ninjaed by swiftdraw by like 10 seconds!

 

[RandomZero]

This is rather shocking news actually, wow...

 

[SandyTech]

I think 1-12

BBC has verified Newey is planning to leave Red Bull before his contact ends next year. He believes he can negotiate an early exit.

Newey to Ferrari !

Or maybe home to Williams.

 

[Cranioclast]

He deserves to retire. When he was still in his forties, he wanted to leave McLaren to go design boats. He should just go fishing with Ross Brawn.

 

[Diabolical]

Dude.
2026 just got a LOT more interesting!

 

[Diabolical]

THE LIST. New entries in bold. Scrapped stuff in strike through.

• Internal Red Bull / RBR investigation into Horner.
  • Accuser now suspended, allegedly filed internal appeal - precursor to potential legal action.
  • Jos / Horner kerfuffle.
    • Break Clauses And Leaving/Staying
      • Max/Newey/Marko/Horner Rumors!
        • Newey is leaving by end of 2025!
• Max being Max and the rest of the field in F1.5 being a toss up.
• Yuki / Daniel shenanigans.
  • Seems to have calmed.
  • Calling this done…
• Lewis / Ferrari looming.
• Major personnel bouncing out of Alpine.
  • Has the bleeding stopped?
  • Rumors of Renault looking to sell the team but retain the engine supplier contract? It’s a bit weird…
• The majority of seats/contracts up at the end of the season.
  • 12 Seats Open (started with 14)
  • TEAMS:
  • Ferrari = 0
    • Leclerc and Hamilton Under Contract
  • McLaren = 0
    • Norris and Piastri Under Contract
  • Mercedes = 1
    • Russell Under Contract
  • RBR = 1
    • Verstappen Under Contract
  • Racing Bulls = 2
  • Alpine = 2
  • Sauber = 1
    • Hulkenberg under contract for 2025
  • Haas = 2
  • Williams = 2
  • Aston Martin = 1 (-ish)
    • Alonso Under Contract
  • DRIVERS // Name (Current Ride) (Stock change due to recent driving, or - no mark = holding steady)
    • Sainz (Ferrari)
    • Perez (RBR)
    • Tsunoda (RB)
    • Ricciardo (RB)
    • Gasly (Alpine)
    • Ocon (Alpine)
    • Bottas (Sauber)
    • Zhao (Sauber)
    • Magnussen (Haas)
    • Hulkenberg (Haas) (Signed with Sauber)
    • Albon (Williams)
    • Sargeant (Williams)
    • Stroll (Aston Martin) (per Mike Krack during FP1, might hear something thus or next week, despite Stroll looking like a complete twit during the GP)
    • Alonso (Aston Martin) ( Signed with Aston Martin)
    • The Reservists & Proteges under consideration:
      • Bearman (Ferrari reserve)
      • Lawson (RB / RBR reserve)
      • Antonelli (Mercedes / Toto golden child)
• Bin Sulayem under investigation for rules/race interference
  • "Cleared by FIA"
  • Member clubs for FIA orgs that aren’t racing power houses calling for an investigation of the Ethics Committee
    • Some smells like FIFA…
• Alpine’s weight problem.
• Williams and THE SPREADSHEET
  • Stop crashing the car, we're out of chassis'!
• The Saga of Bearman
  • How many races ‘til Stroll retakes that spot in the driver standings (dice said Seven!)
    • It took exactly ONE race.
  • How long until Sargeant passes Bearman’s point total?
  • Does Bearman get a seat next season?
• Mercedes power units slow in straights
  • Especially Papaya.
    • Or maybe not Papaya?
• Penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Was 5s, no 10s, still broken?
• Massa actually no shit suing F1 over 2008 (Crashgate, Singapore GP, and championship (and lack thereof) fall out)
• Susie Wolff files criminal complaint against FIA following FIA investigation into her and Toto last year.

Anything else? Anything that should come off?


Edit: Updated to include Hulkenberg signing.

 

[Diabolical]

Oh, the plot thickens!

Per The Race:

There are now reports - with the story originating in Germany's Auto Motor und Sport and backed up by the BBC - that Newey has informed Red Bull of his intention to leave.

However, when approached by The Race, a Red Bull spokesperson said: "Adrian is contracted until at least the end of 2025 and we are unaware of him joining any other team."

To stay in F1 and prepare for the new car rules in 2026, Newey would need to negotiate a shorter period of gardening leave that allows him to work at another team next year.

Red Bull is indicating that will not be possible.

 

[RandomZero]

I'd really, really love to know who inside RB leaked this.....This season is just too much, and none of it has to do with the racing

 

[swiftdraw]

I’ve never watched an F1 race in my life and I am following F1 now just because of the hilarity of this season.

 

[Tijger]

Dude.
2026 just got a LOT more interesting!

Not really. Even if true, and I dont think it is, Newey has a contract with RBR until the end of 2025 and Red Bull isnt going to release him of that so the RB 22 will be his last car, thats the car that will race in 2026. He cannot design a car for another team in 2025 for 2026.
2026 will be very interesting anyway given we'll have both a new design and a new engine spec and everyone will have a great opportunity to get it right...or wrong.

Personally, and with the caveat I dont buy into this story until I hear Newey confirm it personally, I believe he'll retire as CTO of RBR at end of 2025 when he'll be 67 and having survived a serious accident that damaged his brain, he's still the CTO of RBR today and responsible for a very large team of engineers and I suspect he's a little tired now.

 

[zAmboni]

On the subject of changes in points, I think the points should go all the way down to last place (no points for cars that don't finish)., but still allowing the same sort of points gaps to the drivers on the pointy end of things. One of the reasons why I want points all the way down is to give teams/drivers an incentive to actually finish the race. I always hate it when one of the front runners take some damage and then later on in the race the team just tells them to retire the car. Getting points for finishing could change the calculus especially for the lower teams. Three teams retire and a struggling car could grab say 4 pts just for finishing the race.

Heck we can go even further....no points to cars that don't finish, but all points will be awarded!

Right before they hand the trophy to the race winner, they roll out a lotto machine with ping pong balls with each driver number on it. Race winner then draws the ball for the driver that gets the points for those who didn't finish. Then the champagne flows! Yea its out there, but why the hell not?

 

[Diabolical]

Not really. Even if true, and I dont think it is, Newey has a contract with RBR until the end of 2025 and Red Bull isnt going to release him of that so the RB 22 will be his last car, thats the car that will race in 2026. He cannot design a car for another team in 2025 for 2026.
2026 will be very interesting anyway given we'll have both a new design and a new engine spec and everyone will have a great opportunity to get it right...or wrong.

Personally, and with the caveat I dont buy into this story until I hear Newey confirm it personally, I believe he'll retire as CTO of RBR at end of 2025 when he'll be 67 and having survived a serious accident that damaged his brain, he's still the CTO of RBR today and responsible for a very large team of engineers and I suspect he's a little tired now.

STOP RUINING MY FUN!

I suspect you are right. But god damnit, we have to trick ourselves into thinking that this sport is actually competitive somehow!

 

[hanser]

Rumor is newey to Ferrari.

 

[Diabolical]

Rumor is also that he’s retiring.
Rumor is also he’s not going anywhere.

Rumor is also that he, ahem, “might be a Wizard.”

 

[hanser]

Rumor is newey is retiring.

 

[RandomZero]

Well, I think it is safe to say that he is a Wizard, the rest we'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

 

[trukker]

Despite all this being completely unconfirmed it sure feeds my March hopium thoughts for just such a move. Although moving to Aston Martin is another believable rumour. Back to Williams not so much.

We don't know the contract details, so despite Red Bull not wanting to release him, it may be possible with this early notice that he could be free to move somewhere for 2026 design work next year. I'm speculating that he may be leaving Red Bull as soon as it's official. I don't think they can wait on that announcement for a few months. I guess we just have to wait and see. But there's no fun in that.

 

[Tijger]

Despite all this being completely unconfirmed it sure feeds my March hopium thoughts for just such a move. Although moving to Aston Martin is another believable rumour. Back to Williams not so much.

We don't know the contract details, so despite Red Bull not wanting to release him, it may be possible with this early notice that he could be free to move somewhere for 2026 design work next year. I'm speculating that he may be leaving Red Bull as soon as it's official. I don't think they can wait on that announcement for a few months. I guess we just have to wait and see. But there's no fun in that.

Red Bull has already stated Newey is contracted to the end of 2025 and they expect him to honor that contract so that would prevent him from working on any car but the Red Bull for 2026. Keep in mind that Red Bull will also insist on gardening leave, something that would be part of his (and any other important engineer) contract.

He hasnt given notice and quite frankly, I dont see him doing that with the RB 17 around the corner.

 

[Arcturus]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/nico-hulkenberg-to-depart-haas.18AzRKDjCvuib4kGwr6MA7
This confuses me. Wonder which (or both?) of the Kickers will be out of a ride next year. Good move for Nico (probably?)...

 

[trukker]

Red Bull has already stated Newey is contracted to the end of 2025 and they expect him to honor that contract so that would prevent him from working on any car but the Red Bull for 2026. Keep in mind that Red Bull will also insist on gardening leave, something that would be part of his (and any other important engineer) contract.

He hasnt given notice and quite frankly, I dont see him doing that with the RB 17 around the corner.

You are probably correct, although in F1 you can never be too sure how well contracts survive determined lawyers. It would not surprise me to see him retire for his health.
If he has departed before the summer break then we can possibly assume there is some shenanigans behind the scene readying him for return elsewhere after gardening leave from the time that the contract was terminated via some mechanism.

 

[Diabolical]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/nico-hulkenberg-to-depart-haas.18AzRKDjCvuib4kGwr6MA7
This confuses me. Wonder which (or both?) of the Kickers will be out of a ride next year. Good move for Nico (probably?)...

Updated The List.

My money is on Zhou. The sponsor revenue really never appeared, and Bottas is out performing him most of the time.

That’s if it is just the boot to one, though.
And with Zee German moving to a drive that will shortly be under the purview of Audi isn’t a bad move at all.

 

[Cognac]

I'm a big fan of Hulkenberg, but I'm surprised at "2025 and beyond". I wouldn't have said he was outdriving his current machinery by any great margin.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

SO. MANY. SOURCES. desperately trying to say Newey Is Leaving and if you are dumb enough to click the links, they just admit it's hearsay and rumour. Hell, even Sky has a 'Newey Is Leaving' clickbait headline that links to an 'Newey is thought to be considering maybe leaving perhaps' article. Amazing.

He's 65, he looks like shit tbh, that guy looks tired. I'd love to see him return to Williams, but there's zero reason to suppose he's motivated by nostalgia and anyway Williams drove him away so why'd he feel any nostalgia? That's just us... Maybe he too feels some genuine desire to wear a red uniform for a while but I'm far from persuaded mere money is going to persaude him to break out his Teach Yourself Italian course.

What's he got left to prove? I doubt it's anything. He also isn't enamoured with where the sport's technical regluations are going, and that's a pretty good reason for an engineer to leave. And of course, maybe the 'Bull shit' has got too much for him where he is.

 

[zAmboni]

He's 65, he looks like shit tbh, that guy looks tired.

 

[zAmboni]

Someone took the sprinkler idea to MotoGP today. During the sprint race today over half of the drivers crashed because there was damp spots that none of the drivers could see. Definitely shook up the podium.

 

[Diabolical]

That sounds terrifying!

 

[Technarch]

And yet interesting to watch!

(as long as no one got hurt)

 

[Diabolical]

Race Fans has transcripts of a bunch of radio messages that we didn't get to hear.
https://www.racefans.net/2024/04/27...-unheard-radio-exchanges-from-the-chinese-gp/
They do a great job of showing paired radios messages, like between Stroll and his engineer AND Ricciardo and his during 'the incident'.

And get this: Zhou didn't know that the plan was for him to go to the grid at the end of the race the way he did. They told him during the post-race radio traffic after he passed the checkered flag.