Elon Musk and Trump win fight to keep DOGE’s work secret

Musk and DOGE don't have to comply with discovery order, appeals court rules.

See full article...

 

[Unclebugs]

While this is a setback or sorts, "In particular, petitioners have shown a likelihood of success on their argument that the district court was required to decide their motion to dismiss before allowing discovery." As I read this, Trump/Musk will be forced to allow discovery once the District Court rules on the motion to dismiss the case. Should the District Judge rule to not dismiss the case discovery will move forward pending or not the appeal to dismiss the case to the Appeals Court. It will eventually get to SCOTUS.

 

[klarg]

Secret government actions, the best kind of democracy!

 

[MMarsh]

Right? I'm so sick and fuckin' tired of hearing, "They can't do that!" while they continue to do that.

Dear Americans,
We really need y'all to understand this, so read it several times carefully:

Fascist dictator kings, like the one you have now, can do whatever the fuck they want until someone physically stops them.

You do not have rule of law. You do not have checks and balances. You do not have a functioning democracy. You do not have a justice system, or a Congress, or a Sheriff, or anyone else with the duty and the power to rein in the criminally corrupt leader. You have one mad kleptocrat king who is doing whatever the fuck he wants and neither he nor his minions give a rat's ass what the courts, the pundits, the populace, or anyone else thinks about it.

We've seen this same script played out a hundred times over in a hundred other places. The only way it ever ends is when the mad king is physically removed from the throne, whether that's by the army or by an angry mob or by one sharpshooter or by "natural causes".

You have a chance right now to be the first country in the history of the world to escape this particular situation peacefully and without bloodshed. Please do so. Promptly.

Sincerely,
The rest of the world

 

[salbee17]

He can only really use that to prevent criminal investigations on his own personal actions if they can be considered to be under the umbrella of being an "official act."

Other members of his admin aren't protected.

This is why attacking the judiciary is so important. Working for the President is now a very dangerous job because the President has immunity but you don't. So he can order you to illegal stuff, and defying the President is fraught with danger. So you have to break the judiciary.

 

[ItchyPoo]

He can only really use that to prevent criminal investigations on his own personal actions if they can be considered to be under the umbrella of being an "official act."

Other members of his admin aren't protected.

They are just pardoned.

 

[mcswell]

Transparency!

The most transparent organization ever. So transparent they can't survive discovery...

Musk said. “So all of our actions are maximally transparent. In fact, I don’t think there’s been, I don’t know of a case where an organization has been more transparent than the Doge organization.”
Just to be sure everyone understands: Musks statement is pure b______t.

 

[DirkMeister]

Fucking pedal-to-the-metal hurtling towards the bad future in Back to the Future... Ya know, the one where Trump becomes mayor. Except much fucking worse.

What's interesting is that the character Biff from Back to the Future is based on Donald Trump. Seriously, just Google it.

 

[the cave troll]

While this is a setback or sorts, "In particular, petitioners have shown a likelihood of success on their argument that the district court was required to decide their motion to dismiss before allowing discovery." As I read this, Trump/Musk will be forced to allow discovery once the District Court rules on the motion to dismiss the case. Should the District Judge rule to not dismiss the case discovery will move forward pending or not the appeal to dismiss the case to the Appeals Court. It will eventually get to SCOTUS.

Yeah, the ruling here is emphatically not that Trump/Musk are immune from discovery, even though everyone here is acting like it is. All the appeals court is saying is that you can't start discovery until you have first ruled on whether the case should be dismissed, which seems incredibly reasonable to me because dismissal would obviate the need for discovery.

So now it is up to the lower court to finish ruling that of course the case should proceed, and formally deny the motion to dismiss. Then we get to proceed to discovery.

 

[steelcobra]

They are just pardoned.

Yeah, but he was doing that in his first term, too.

 

[terrydactyl]

When Trump said transparency, he didn't mean transparency,

"Trump signed a memorandum requiring radical transparency regarding wasteful spending of taxpayer dollars..."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-she...-the-american-people-about-wasteful-spending/

 

[Jackattak]

When the torches and pitchforks come out, I'll know disenfranchised Americans are serious. the requisite level of inflation, unemployment, and loss of rights/benefits is higher than I expected.

Narrator:

Turns out the disenfranchised Americans weren’t serious at all.

 

[David Mayer]

Obligatory snarky comment:

Well, my American friends, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

But this shall pass at one point, so keep your heads up.

My initial reply was going to be critical of this, after all, only something like a third of Americans voted for Trump, and about the same amount voted against him. But it's not that simple, fascism has been on the horizon in the US for decades, and it was ridiculously obvious once Trump won in 2016. Ideally, there should have been effectively an all out effort to defeat fascism electorally, but also to elect anti-fascist (the literal definition, not the definition MAGA uses) politicians, in primaries. As well as an all out effort to change society away from one that would reject fascism.

Many if not most of those who "voted against" Trump didn't do enough, if they had, the US wouldn't have a fascist government now.

Is this unfair? Absolutely! But the reality is unfair. The reality is that citizens of a country, especially one with functioning elections, have the responsibility to maintain their political system in good order, sometimes that requires devoting all available time and effort into politics, electoralist or otherwise.

Who are those most responsible? Trump and Musk, then their supporters. But again, everyone else has a duty to act to oppose them, and failure to do so was a dereliction of duty.

 

[kvndoom]

Hey Does anyone remember when they threatened to ban TikTok?

That’s where Americans attention lies.
It’s exactly the reason why the populace was convinced that Trump is a business genius. The TV told them so.

I always knew reality TV was rotting our brains but this isn’t the karma I expected.

I saw and heard more outrage from the 30 and under crowd about losing TikTok than about losing democracy.

 

[CeeTee]

The USA budget sees 4 agencies account for 80% of Govt spending - Heath&Human @25%, SocialSecurity @22%, Treasury @19%, Defense @13%

DOGE is obsessed with cutting all the small depts in that final 20%, because H&H and SS are disproportionately more important to MAGA voters, Treasury is primarily about paying interest on the national debt, and no-one seems interested in looking at defense.

Meanwhile, Trump want to cut taxes for the wealthy and large corporates, which will result in a ballooning of the national debt, making Treasury the largest of those big 4.

Trump & Musk are going to fuck the country, and walk away laughing.

 

[Urist]

When Elon said "Maximum Transparency" he meant it in the same way as "Full Self Driving"

or.

Elon has failed at both being transparent and being a trans parent.

 

[thrillgore]

 

[graylshaped]

Although in practice he can preemptively pardon anyone else for federal crimes, which means they are as covered as he wants them to be. …Which of course means he can coerce and blackmail everyone under him the moment they do anything even slightly shady… which of course is why his first directive for people under him always seems to be to get them to do something shady…

I do not believe he can pre-emptively pardon for future acts. My understanding is that he can pardon for past acts which would preclude future prosecution, albeit not absolve from civil damages.

 

[TenacityOverAptitude]

Although in practice he can preemptively pardon anyone else for federal crimes, which means they are as covered as he wants them to be. …Which of course means he can coerce and blackmail everyone under him the moment they do anything even slightly shady… which of course is why his first directive for people under him always seems to be to get them to do something shady…

This playbook works well for other criminal organizations too. They bring in the new guy and have him do something illegal to prove their bona fides. The corrupt then hangs that over the new guy’s head to keep them beholden to the gang leader.

 

[Ruefus]

The damn wealthy are now controlling everything

When - in human history - has this not been true?

 

[Acidtech]

Huh. So this is totally transparent government? Seem to recall Trump promissing that.

P.S. No, I didn't expect it. More lies from Trump is the norm.

 

[MjchX11R6]

My initial reply was going to be critical of this, after all, only something like a third of Americans voted for Trump, and about the same amount voted against him. But it's not that simple, fascism has been on the horizon in the US for decades, and it was ridiculously obvious once Trump won in 2016. Ideally, there should have been effectively an all out effort to defeat fascism electorally, but also to elect anti-fascist (the literal definition, not the definition MAGA uses) politicians, in primaries. As well as an all out effort to change society away from one that would reject fascism.

Many if not most of those who "voted against" Trump didn't do enough, if they had, the US wouldn't have a fascist government now.

Is this unfair? Absolutely! But the reality is unfair. The reality is that citizens of a country, especially one with functioning elections, have the responsibility to maintain their political system in good order, sometimes that requires devoting all available time and effort into politics, electoralist or otherwise.

Who are those most responsible? Trump and Musk, then their supporters. But again, everyone else has a duty to act to oppose them, and failure to do so was a dereliction of duty.

This is absolutely fucking ridiculous. The ones to blame are those that did not vote. Blaming the ones who did what they should have is clear insanity.

 

[delightful hag]

Dear Americans,
We really need y'all to understand this, so read it several times carefully:

Fascist dictator kings, like the one you have now, can do whatever the fuck they want until someone physically stops them.

You do not have rule of law. You do not have checks and balances. You do not have a functioning democracy. You do not have a justice system, or a Congress, or a Sheriff, or anyone else with the duty and the power to rein in the criminally corrupt leader. You have one mad kleptocrat king who is doing whatever the fuck he wants and neither he nor his minions give a rat's ass what the courts, the pundits, the populace, or anyone else thinks about it.

We've seen this same script played out a hundred times over in a hundred other places. The only way it ever ends is when the mad king is physically removed from the throne, whether that's by the army or by an angry mob or by one sharpshooter or by "natural causes".

You have a chance right now to be the first country in the history of the world to escape this particular situation peacefully and without bloodshed. Please do so. Promptly.

Sincerely,
The rest of the world

Right!!! I keep saying we need to strike nationally. Shut this country down until the bastard(s) are removed, but I'm just one little voice in 350 or so million and I'm not doing it by myself that's for sure.

 

[lolware]

It's all fun and games until the shooting starts.

I figure around a year of this, depending on the fallout, before organized resistance groups begin arming themselves for taking back what was taken from them. The previous administration by the Russian-Agent-In-Chief was the practice run. This is when the dismantling of America's unity, and thus our strength, begins in earnest.

It's only JUST started. People aren't at the taking up arms point yet. And it's possible, though increasingly likely the longer this goes on, that it won't happen.

We are not blessed with generations who are willing to put their lives on the line for freedom, democracy and fair government at the moment. A lot more pressure is needed to do that.

But it becomes clear that our safety systems - the checks and balances that keep government under the control of the people - have been unhinged and we are now at the mercy of the kleptocrats, criminals and traitors interested only in their own fame, fortune and egos, then more people will rally to organize and plan for bringing that government down.

We're supposed to be a union of cooperative sub-countries each retaining an individual social identity, and an independent political leadership. As a country, we're much stronger when we unite than when we fight among ourselves, and Trump is Russian's agent facilitating the ambitions of a repressive, criminal regime by dividing us and making us weaker. When we're focusing on our issues, we don't bother with what other countries are doing.

And I have to admit he's doing an effective job of turning Americans against Americans, and rendering our influence moot in the rest of the world, allowing for others whose motives are even more nefarious than ours usually are to step in.

The first world war destroyed Europe. The second world war destroyed half the globe. The third world war, possibly happening as soon as before the end of the decade, will take out all of civilization. And this administration is speed-running that track.

With a chaotic narcissistic motherfucker in charge of the US arsenal, it's impossible to say with any great certainty exactly what will happen and when. But it's a dead certainty that we have much darker times before us, and they are not likely to become better without enduring far more hardships than we've ever endured before. Given the forces and regimes in the world today, with climate change and its consequences not even part of the mix, the fate of the human race currently hangs in the balance. The storm clouds have been gathering for ten years (since Russia's invasion of Ukraine) and have only grown darker and more ominous.

Toss in climate change and humanity faces an immanent existential threat that can be avoided if action is taken in a timely manner. But it won't be, and we all know that. And despite what Thomas Jefferson said about refreshing the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots, when you run out of patriots and have only those interested in their own survival, you lose liberty, freedom, civilization and even, potentially, the existence of mankind itself.

This is just one footnote in that path toward our mutual self destruction. The most powerful nation on earth has a deranged psychopath running it, and has no filters, no brakes and is doing the work of our enemies for them. And in the end, there will no one will be left behind to care.

That's the path I see us on now. It might change. Time will tell. It's just very difficult to predict what delusional people will do, and how a mostly apathetic, if uneasy, public will respond to it.

You have disgruntled veterans and fired top military officers. You have a power that's concentrated in Washington DC. You have an almost unlimited amount of weapons and ammos.

If South Koreans, Turks, Greeks, Georgians and Serbians can take to the streets by the hundreds of thousands, surely you can too.

So don't tell us you can't get a couple millions of citizens to wipe out this entire administration if need be.

 

[hel1kx]

Narrator:

Turns out the disenfranchised Americans weren’t serious at all.

Hey man, I was just born here 40 years ago. I voted for Harris. If you have ideas on how I can protest in the biggest police state in the world, in a way that will cause anything to change, while also not losing my home, job, health insurance, family...I'm all ears!

 

[motytrah]

Can't trump literally point to TRUMP v. UNITED STATES and the John Roberts Supreme Court decision that gives him unfettered power to do whatever he wants during his administration without fear of the pesky law getting in the way?

I remember that ruling. I thought Biden should have ordered the Secret Service to impound Thomas's RV he got gifted by his Billionaire BFF. Official acts and all.

 

[hel1kx]

So don't tell us you can't get a couple millions of citizens to wipe out this entire administration if need be.

And when a couple million armed citizens who think everything is fine also show up, not to mention the military, we'll just shoot each other in the streets. Good idea!

 

[Erbium68]

The first world war destroyed Europe. The second world war destroyed half the globe. The third world war, possibly happening as soon as before the end of the decade, will take out all of civilization. And this administration is speed-running that track.

Really the nomenclature is off. The Seven Years War was the first World War, the Napoleonic Wars were the second (in which, don't forget, the UK was at war with the US and the US tried to annex Canada). 1914-18 was the third world war and 1942-1945 ws the fourth (before 1942 it was a Continental war.)
If WW5 goes nuclear it will be a different order of war, but in fact we don't know what will happen. The only thing is that based on timescales we are probably due for one.

 

[Erbium68]

And when a couple million citizens who are armed and think everything is fine, we'll just shoot each other in the streets. Good idea!

My worry (given the number of my US relatives) is that this might just be the only way to demonstrate that the rest of the English speaking world is right in its insistence on gun control.

 

[Hemlocke]

His interpretation notwithstanding, that's not what that decision held.

edit: I encourage those disagreeing to read the decision itself with an eye to the difference between core powers, official acts, and "whatever he wants," along with an understanding that immunity from prosecution is not unfettered power. It is the willingness of other institutions to allow him to ignore judicial restraint on his re-writing of legislation--said re-writing definitively NOT a core power--and failure to execute laws faithfully that is the concern here. Nor does any personal immunity he has transfer in any way to those who follow unlawful orders.

Once again, stop playing his game by his rules.

It really does not matter what the courts say now because the DOJ has been subverted completely and become a weapon of the Executive Branch. "The court finds your actions to be a violation of the law." "Okay?" "Stop doing that!" "Make me." "..."

 

[David Mayer]

This is absolutely fucking ridiculous. The ones to blame are those that did not vote. Blaming the ones who did what they should have is clear insanity.

I did not use the word blame, the ones to blame are Trump, Musk and those who directly supported them through direct votes, finances and political support. no one else. Those that did not vote bear about as much "blame" as the people I described in my comment, which is none. But they did have the responsibility to act to the best of their ability and they didn't.

The only difference between the non voters and the Harris voters is the degree to which they were ineffective. But both groups were insufficiently effective and with too few exceptions, Harris voters were only somewhat less ineffective.

did what they should have

What they should have done is literally everything they were able to do. Voting in the general clearly wasn't enough, was it?

 

[Hmnhntr]

I saw and heard more outrage from the 30 and under crowd about losing TikTok than about losing democracy.

To be "fair", a large amount of that crowd seems to think the latter is somehow impossible. It is remarkable how many people, no matter what happens, just roll their eyes and tell you to calm down when the idea that our democracy is in danger is brought up. Hell, lots of them won't even acknowledge that anyone is trying to harm our democracy.

"There's systems in place to prevent that"
"There's no way they can get the support that would need"
"No one would let them do that"
"That's an over-exaggeration of what's happening, it's actually totally normal because...."
"People didn't elect Trump because they support fascism, they just..."
"He's just an idiot and an asshole, that doesn't mean he's going to be a dictator"
"I'm pretty sure that's just rhetoric"
"Oh, that was just an awkward hand gesture"
"Oh, that's just a coincidence, stages can only be so many shapes"
"Don't you think someone would have noticed and done something if that were true?"
"People are just scared right now and trying to protect themselves"

The excuses and denial are endless.

 

[Your Dishes]

Hey man, I was just born here 40 years ago. I voted for Harris. If you have ideas on how I can protest in the biggest police state in the world, in a way that will cause anything to change, while also not losing my home, job, health insurance, family...I'm all ears!

Short term anything you do is a lose-lose situation because as you say, the cards are stacked against you. I see no painless road you can walk.

The best thing, I guess, is to loudly join the calls for a large-scale general strike. Preferably branded under the first amendment in a way that anyone critical will have to clearly argue against the first amendment.

 

[Hmnhntr]

I did not use the word blame, the ones to blame are Trump, Musk and those who directly supported them through direct votes, finances and political support. no one else. Those that did not vote bear about as much "blame" as the people I described in my comment, which is none. But they did have the responsibility to act to the best of their ability and they didn't.

The only difference between the non voters and the Harris voters is the degree to which they were ineffective. But both groups were insufficiently effective and with too few exceptions, Harris voters were only somewhat less ineffective.


What they should have done is literally everything they were able to do. Voting in the general clearly wasn't enough, was it?

"I'm not saying she was to blame, but she should have done everything she could to escape that rapist. Clearly carrying pepper spray wasn't enough, was it?"

 

[approximate_pi]

This sounds more like a procedural thing than a win for DOGE/Musk, the appeals court is essentially saying “hey, district court, you have to rule on their motion to dismiss (which you almost certainly wont grant) before you can order discovery”.

Basically “do things in the correct order”

 

[graylshaped]

It really does not matter what the courts say now because the DOJ has been subverted completely and become a weapon of the Executive Branch. "The court finds your actions to be a violation of the law." "Okay?" "Stop doing that!" "Make me." "..."

Is your first inclination always to roll over and go belly up?

 

[ReductiMat]

When - in human history - has this not been true?

Right after world war 2. You know, when there was actually a middle class.

You guys might want to think about marching and striking soon.

 

[Psychophant]

Hopefully no one falls for this line:



The administration is playing three-card monte to hide the extent to which Musk is directing DOGE, so obviously you need discovery to... discover... the facts.

Yes, but first the motion to dismiss must be dealt with. The court didn't follow proper procedure and got slapped down.

 

[approximate_pi]

It really does not matter what the courts say now because the DOJ has been subverted completely and become a weapon of the Executive Branch. "The court finds your actions to be a violation of the law." "Okay?" "Stop doing that!" "Make me." "..."

I’m waiting to see what happens when the courts order the marshals to take someone into custody for contempt and the Trump admin tells them not to, you know it will happen eventually. We’ll get to find out then if the marshals will follow the constitution and execute legal orders from the court or if they've become a tool of MAGA cultists and listen to contradictory orders from the executive

 

[MagicDot]

They will win every battle...even the ones they lose because they simply ignore the law. They have a compliant Congress and have bought the Supreme Court. Nothing can stop them...well almost. They'll find out this summer when a large number of recently unemployed Americans have an axe to grind.