The Information report claims notable losses for Apple's only service in the red.
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Apple TV+ reportedly loses $1 billion a year, and that’s okay—for now
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For me, it’s more like “I came for iCloud+ and Apple Music, found out that Apple One was just a few bucks more so opted for that instead.” In my case it’s an Individual plan but reckon Apple gets a lot of Family or Premier subscriptions purely for the storage and music (and I suppose the security cam support).
I don’t mind continuing my Apple One subscription as long as the pricing remains attractive, but must confess I’m not big on TV+. Slow Horses is truly excellent and probably the only series on the same level as the best-of-the-best offerings from Netflix (I’m talking Queen’s Gambit or Godless levels), but a lot of the other shows I’ve tried seem very “same-y”, for lack of better term. Unpopular opinion here, but I find Severance to be an utter slog (pacing sucks, imho). Same for Silo. To me, it seems Apple produces for awards committee approval rather than viewer fun.
Apple Arcade on the other hand, hosts utter garbage outside the classic Final Fantasy remasters and Game Dev Story. Just sign a deal with Kairosoft and host their whole library, Apple!! That’s all I would need.
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macosandlinux
Ars Tribunus Militum
A prestige service with A-list actors and Apple devices 'brand consideration' in shows (admittedly keeping it at a very low level). But nobody buys a (new) iPad/iPhone so to watch the next season of Severance.
Nearly all of the show on Apple TV+ are for adult/mature audiences, often in their 30s or over. The teens/tweens are woefully forgotten, they are a large core customer base.
Cutting private jets and $200-$300 million productions might help. Why not go ahead and spend this instead on Apple Vision immersive content, it's currently majorly lacking, one year after launch, and that library will become more and more important for the Vision Pro going forward, it's one of the 2-3 USPoints for it. Future versions might even more lean into it as a pure content consumption device.
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Maybe not Foundation, sort of has the name of the books but for me at least but a bad adaptation.
Loving Silo and really looking forwards to Murderbot as those books were epic
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Interesting, didn't know about that. Probably not worth it for me, especially with already having 1Tb on O365, but good to have in the back of my mind if I finally ditch Office.
EDIT: Scratch that, I misread the lower tier as 500Gb, it's only 50Gb
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I'm just glad someone somewhere is making some kind of gesture towards creating art instead of relentlessly extruding product.
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So they're forgetting a big market in the <30's and your solution is to target the enormous market that is Apple Vision?
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If people think AppleTV+ is a waste of money, good luck selling them on content for the Apple Vision.
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I've always wondered what Apple's return on their paid software is... Logic and Final Cut Pro. They're amazing values( at least Logic... don't know about Final Cut)... and got consistent huge updates... for free. The iPad apps are now subscription, which is worse, but still an amazing value.
These seem like loss leaders, so does Apple TV+ fit into this? And what about Apple Music... probably also a loss leader.
These seem like loss leaders, so does Apple TV+ fit into this? And what about Apple Music... probably also a loss leader.
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macosandlinux
Ars Tribunus Militum
Sorry, two thoughts in one. I was meaning to say, get more content for the younger audience (while maybe saving on $300 million Scorsese dramas - it was a decent movie, but would have bought a chunk of Vision Pro or teen/tween content).So they're forgetting a big market in the <30's and your solution is to target the enormous market that is Apple Vision?
Also get the Vision Pro immersive content aligned with their prestige TV efforts, it will pay off in the future. The money spent is really not Apple's issue, it's more that they have to adjust their vision (pun intended) for it.
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macosandlinux
Ars Tribunus Militum
It's an even longer gamble/timeline for sure. Future Vision Pro units (or sub-model) might be more of a content consumption device - with cuts in features to bring prices down, plus many owners (right now) love to just watch great movies on it.
Immersive nature docs and the content they shot so far, has a very long shelf life and takes a lot of time to produce. They will have to do the same as they're doing for Apple TV+, pump money into content, for 5+ years, before it makes returns. But they got the funds and can be ahead of any and all future competitors - maybe excluding Disney.
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HuntingManatees
Ars Centurion
I think "Foundation" is committing the grievous error of focusing too little on Empire rather than the outer planet Foundation and artifact stuff. If the show is straying as far from the books as it has been, why not center the most interesting storyline -- and the show's best performance in Lee Pace's Brother Day?
Seriously, if "Foundation" was just 90% Lee Pace it would be so much better than what we've been getting.
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Looking at the list here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_TV+_original_programming
My wife and I have watched:
For All Mankind
The Morning Show
Amazing Stories
Foundation
Invasion
Severance
Hello Tomorrow!
Silo
Dickinson
Mythic Quest
Ted Lasso
Physical
Schmigadoon!
Shrinking
The Big Door Prize
Dick Turpin
The Reluctant Traveller
With very few exceptions they've all been amazing and engaging television. Can't wait to see more. Some of them have been cancelled too early but it is what it is. For the price of my Apple One subscription I'm more than satisfied I'm getting good value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_TV+_original_programming
My wife and I have watched:
For All Mankind
The Morning Show
Amazing Stories
Foundation
Invasion
Severance
Hello Tomorrow!
Silo
Dickinson
Mythic Quest
Ted Lasso
Physical
Schmigadoon!
Shrinking
The Big Door Prize
Dick Turpin
The Reluctant Traveller
With very few exceptions they've all been amazing and engaging television. Can't wait to see more. Some of them have been cancelled too early but it is what it is. For the price of my Apple One subscription I'm more than satisfied I'm getting good value.
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I always saw Apple’s software and services as an ecosystem play, which harkens back to the days when they developed iWorks to serve as a hedge against Office not being available on the Mac.
For example, Apple is able to integrate Apple Music with Siri on their Apple Watch and HomePod without needing to go through Spotify, or worrying that Spotify might tweak something on their end and break functionality. It’s also available on the Vision Pro and Apple TV (where the spotify app is conspicuously lacking).
Final Cut Pro seems to be single-handedly keeping an army of YouTubers on the Mac. Considering that Adobe apps are optimised for Nvidia graphics cards which Apple famously does not support.
TV+ appears to be there to ensure there is content for the Vision Pro (right now, nobody else seems to be making spatial video content, and Netflix and youtube are still not available for the AVP). It also seems to be raking in its fair share of Emmy awards, but I am not sure if there is an ROI to be had there, or how to even go about calculating this. I actually like TV+ content over Netflix’s, in that while TV+ has less content, I find myself watching more of their original content overall (there was a time many years ago when I was looking forward to episodes from 6 assorted TV+ shows over the weekend).
Given that there is this impression that apple services either work best, or work only on apple hardware, I think Apple’s services will never have the most number of subscribers, and that may not matter to Apple if their primary intent is to serve as a hedge against third party services going rogue or playing hardball with them (like what spotify and Netflix are currently doing). Given how more developers seem increasingly acrimonious towards Apple these days, it seems like an astute move.
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Yeah, I saw that story reported too. I really REALLY enjoyed watching the first three seasons, but I'm somewhat skeptical about them being able to repeat the magic for a fourth. Although if it centres around an AFC Richmond women's team, that could open up a lot of narrative possibilities. Time will tell I guess.
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As just one example of the benefits of the relatively small AppleTV+ library, I gave Dickinson a casual try - thinking it would be an earnest, soft-focus biopic. Fair to say it’s anything but.
Hailee Steinfeld has an absolute blast as Emily, a force of nature in a restrictive and deadly world set against her. The whole thing is a bit YA and done in an anachronistic style that’s ironically slightly showing its age, but it’s a still a hoot. I’m glad I found it.
There are now enough shows that I feel it’s worth staying with AppleTV+ for the next seasons to come around:
Slow Horses - a constant, unbeatable joy
For All Mankind - always unpredictable
Shrinking - Harrison Ford at his comic best
Foundation - Lee Pace rules, the clone idea is brilliant
Mythic Quest - somehow keeps working
Silo - Rebecca Ferguson is amazing (though I want her to be free for the Joe Abercrombie adaptation)
Severance - feels as if it’s coming to its natural conclusion but a great ride
And I’m enjoying Dope Thief atm.
[But avoid Disclaimer. Honestly, just don’t. Staggeringly bad.]
Hailee Steinfeld has an absolute blast as Emily, a force of nature in a restrictive and deadly world set against her. The whole thing is a bit YA and done in an anachronistic style that’s ironically slightly showing its age, but it’s a still a hoot. I’m glad I found it.
There are now enough shows that I feel it’s worth staying with AppleTV+ for the next seasons to come around:
Slow Horses - a constant, unbeatable joy
For All Mankind - always unpredictable
Shrinking - Harrison Ford at his comic best
Foundation - Lee Pace rules, the clone idea is brilliant
Mythic Quest - somehow keeps working
Silo - Rebecca Ferguson is amazing (though I want her to be free for the Joe Abercrombie adaptation)
Severance - feels as if it’s coming to its natural conclusion but a great ride
And I’m enjoying Dope Thief atm.
[But avoid Disclaimer. Honestly, just don’t. Staggeringly bad.]
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Apple fanboy 101
Ars Tribunus Militum
Severance's season final is today!
That's a big fear of mine. However the awful writer Lindelof isn't involved with the project so that's a plus.
Yes, disclaimer was awful. A pretentious mess (with bad CGI for the house) and a story that doesn't make sense. One word from Cate Blanchett at the end of episode 1 would have ended the story.
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I cannot imagine modern Disney Inc. making that quote, though. The live-action remakes, for instance, have high production values, so from that perspective I wouldn’t call them phoned in. But from the perspective of storytelling vision? Phoned in.
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Maybe one reason they don't have more viewers is the experience I had in trying to create an Apple account. We have no Apple hardware and I tried to sign up using one of my desktop machines and I couldn't. Every time I tried to verify myself it took me back to the sign-up page. I tried a different machine with a different OS and the same thing. Tried a different browser, no luck. Gave up after at least 8 tries.
A few months later I tried again. Same result on the desktop. I don't use my phone for shopping and/or buying things because I assume everything I do there google knows about. But this time I tried to sign up with my phone and it worked. I was using Firefox on the phone which is what I normally use on the desktop.
A few months later I tried again. Same result on the desktop. I don't use my phone for shopping and/or buying things because I assume everything I do there google knows about. But this time I tried to sign up with my phone and it worked. I was using Firefox on the phone which is what I normally use on the desktop.
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I was with you until this. Disclaimer wasn’t the best thing I’ve seen on AppleTV but it wasn’t THAT bad! I thought it captured the whole “cancel culture“ thing pretty well. Plus credible performances from Kevin Kline, Cate Blanchett and Sasha Baron Cohen. 7/10
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"For All Mankind" is a show I wanted to like. I really liked the premise of it, and the initial setup was good.
But I just couldn't. I got to the end of episode 5 (first season) and just gave up. It was too hit and miss for me. I don't know what it is, it just didn't gel for me. One of my friends has watched it all, and commented to me that he's still not sure if it was worth the effort.
Loved Severance (including the finale of season 2), hoping for a third season. Enjoyed Foundation, looking forward to its third season. Getting into Slow Horses now, and it's likely that I'll actually let my free three month trial move into a paid subscription to get through Slow Horses and give Silo and Dark Matter a shot. If nothing else, I feel that the entertainment I've got from Severance is sufficient reason to give Apple a bit of cash for at least a month or two (instead of just freeloading off the free trials they've kindly given me.)
People have complained that the second season of Severance didn't really move the plot much, and whilst I can understand that complaint, I can't agree with it - there was a lot of fleshing out of the world and characters, and that's given them several hooks they can hang a third season off without it feeling forced. We'll see what happens. (Even though the end of the second season is a reasonable conclusion in its own right.)
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I’m not sure that Severance will fall that far but it is an unfortunate reality that almost all successful series spiral into a hot mess of ever more contorted story lines. It’s because of money of course, but I wish studios would favour telling good stories every once in a while too and knowing when to call it quits. Now they’re just taunting the brand.
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If you want another free month, you can sign up for a trial for Apple One, it includes AppleTV+. Note that unlike other trials, you lose access the second you hit the cancel button so you need to cancel the day before the paid subscription starts to make the most of it.
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I really liked Disclaimer. The main criticism is that it ended a bit too quickly and “too easy” with some things just waved away, but there were some solid performances in there and a great build up of uneasy tension.
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I get your drift with 'For All Mankind'. I mostly enjoyed it, but some parts were a slog.
'Slow Horses' is fantastic. I love the premise - the place where fuck-ups go to serve out their time.
All the characters are brilliantly portrayed, but Jackson Lamb in particular is a character that will go down as one of the all time great TV anti-heroes.
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I will be so sad if Apple TV+ goes under. The library isn't vast, but the quality has been superb and there is something for everyone.
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Just as AppleTVs are emerging as the best set top boxes, AppleTV+ has the potential to become one of the best remaining streaming services, while all competitors are locked in a race to the bottom with ads, multiple tiers, packages, cutting 4K, etc., probably microtransactions will be the next thing.
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There's so much competition for people's time these days. TV has to compete with YouTube, Twitch, video games, legacy broadcasters, social media, books, the gym, bars, 5-a-side football, restaurants - basically anything you could be doing instead.
It's a zero sum game (because time is finite) and I think the big streamers, who have to spend billions on content, are trapped in a bit of a death spiral. They've got to keep outspending each other to persuade consumers to sign up for their streaming service rather than the other guy's. But a lot of their competition is either free or has fixed and quite low costs.
So do you keep throwing money down the content hole in the hopes that you're the last man standing when everyone else has gone bust or given up? Or do you call it quits early and cut your losses? I don't think the world can support dozens of paid-for streaming services in the long run...
It's a zero sum game (because time is finite) and I think the big streamers, who have to spend billions on content, are trapped in a bit of a death spiral. They've got to keep outspending each other to persuade consumers to sign up for their streaming service rather than the other guy's. But a lot of their competition is either free or has fixed and quite low costs.
So do you keep throwing money down the content hole in the hopes that you're the last man standing when everyone else has gone bust or given up? Or do you call it quits early and cut your losses? I don't think the world can support dozens of paid-for streaming services in the long run...
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I think, this is the kind of news that should spark the “cartel” talk. There is a fine line when funding one’s other ventures, but can you imagine being so huge and so sure your customers can’t flee elsewhere that you can loose $1 billion for years just to see where it goes.
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Well if they had anything good on there we would have kept it after the free trials expired, but each time, it is just disappointments.
Maybe it is not the best business to let people see it is crap before asking them to pay.
Maybe it is not the best business to let people see it is crap before asking them to pay.
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Good list. I would add to that:
-Ted Lasso
-The Morning Show
-Dark Matter
-Bad Sisters
-In With The Devil
-Sugar
-Masters of the Air
-Bad Sisters
-Presumed Innocent
-Bad Monkey
-Where's Wanda?
-Trying
-Acapulco
They also have some very good movies:
-Greyhound
-Napoleon
-Killers of the Flower Moon
-Coda
-On The Rocks
-Finch
-Wolfwalkers
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Most of the shows we've tried, we've given up on. Most are too slow. I'm a huge sf fan and read foundation when it came out but the TV show is tedious. Silo has lost my interest after 3 episodes. Prime target was pointless in the end, and like the others, stretched out without adding anything to the plot or interest.
Ted Lasso is all we watch now!
Ted Lasso is all we watch now!
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I'm glad I wasnt the only one that got the impression that AppleTV+ is only for Apple devices. As somebody who didnt have any Apple devices for decades I was truly clueless that its basically just another streaming service that you can watch in Firefox on Linux.
Dark Matter, Foundation, silo, severance, finch were all superb but you don't need a year-round subscription to watch those.
Also Argylle was average at best, Bryce Dallas Howard didn't pull off the action role with a barebones story.
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Well they could start with fixing the apps. No app on android? That's such a big market that they are just missing. Also let me cast the content, omg. On smart TV the app constantly crashes and freezes as well. Feels like they should address the basics. And don't do like Yahoo and pull the plug, you have too keep adding stuff, never admit defeat!
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Silo, Severance, Foundation - Apple TV is making cinematic science fiction that people will look back on very fondly years from now. Doing the right thing is not always the easy thing. Profit is important, yes, but Apple TV is significantly adding to our culture library with some of these shows. Respect and enjoy the peace.
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Isn't this just the standard cycle for critical mass adoption? Businesses like Amazon, Facebook, Netflix and Disney all spent billions upfront just to grow their subscribers base just enough for them to be muscle memory in everyone and their friend's minds. Maybe among the high interest rate landscape, pursuing market share is no longer a priority, so the vendor declares that it's cornered the market and achieved mass adoption. I don't like any Apple product since the Macintosh but Apple TV streaming is still something I'm seriously considering after everyone started coming up with ads.
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