Apple TV+ reportedly loses $1 billion a year, and that’s okay—for now

The Information report claims notable losses for Apple's only service in the red.

See full article...

 

[jhodge]

Whenever I watch an Apple production on TV+, one of my thoughts is "it must be nice to have all the money". All of their stuff just looks great; obviously nobody cut any corners on production, casting, or all the myriad post-production bits. Which is not to say I like everything, but I haven't run into anything yet where it looks like they went cheap.

Contrast with Amazon Prime Video, where a few of their "originals" have given off a distinct low-budget vibe.

 

[alexnode]

I dislike apple, but I subscribe to apple tv because it's the best by far. If I ever start cutting subscriptions it will be in that order Netflix - Prime / Disney - Apple. So keep up the good work but please make the windows app better.

 

[Marakai]

This one made me chuckle: "find better flight deals".

I can just see them flying celebs and actors around in Spirit economy.

 

[codemonkeyuk]

That's like saying should government subsidize symphony orchestras and opera companies when their audiences are a miniscule fraction of major league sports.

'Yes Minister' had this when filmed in the 1980's. When I look back its amazing how much of that series is still relevant today. See:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl0aEz34A4o

 

[markgo]

“I don’t understand it beyond a marketing play, but they’re really smart people," Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos said of Apple TV+ to Variety this week. “Maybe they see something we don’t.”

Well, considering that Netflix is the home of “make it just barely good enough that people keep watching”, with multiple filmmakers saying that Netflix’s only request is for characters and voiceovers to keep explaining their actions so people doing laundry while half-watching can follow…

I’m not at all surprised you wouldn’t understand. You neither care about nor value quality, Ted.

 

[jhodge]

Well, considering that Netflix is the home of “make it just barely good enough that people keep watching”, with multiple filmmakers saying that Netflix’s only request is for characters and voiceovers to keep explaining their actions so people doing laundry while half-watching can follow…

I’m not at all surprised you wouldn’t understand. You neither care about nor value quality, Ted.

Well, there is a huge market for that sort of background noise/filler content. Or just undemanding content in general - see the entire (and AFAIK quite successful) Hallmark Channel. If everything Netflix did was dreck, I'd probably agree with you, but I can't blame them too much for catering to that market segment.

 

[Excvbgi89765]

At this point Apple TV+ is the only streaming platform that is synonymous with good sci-fi.

I’ll keep paying for it over any other streaming service as long as they keep producing shows like Severance, Silo, Foundation, For All Mankind, etc.

Other great shows like Slow Horses or Ted Lasso are just gravy on top of that.

So much ridiculous drama in "For All Mankind". I gave up on it after realizing how much fast forward I was doing to get to actual NASA/Space scenes vs. stuff like where the mom bangs her dead son's friend.

 

[X-Dad]

I have really enjoyed Apple TV+. Streaming quality has been excellent, the shows i have watched has been great. Silo is probably one of my favorites of all time, but there is not too much to watch in general so it has been an on and off thing, although now my subscription is permanently off as i am not sending any money to the US if i can help it. It will be missed though as i think it has been a service that is done right.

Sorry to see you need to leave US companies, but I understand completely. Maybe in a couple years I hope to welcome you back, After we fix our big orange problem.

 

[alexnode]

So, two things about AppleTV+.
1) Historically, Apple has very long time horizons on products and services. They're generally okay if a service loses money for 5-10 years so long as it's achieving the overall goal. iTMS didn't make money for ages.
2) Apple views these services as value-add for the products. As such, they don't necessarily need to be profitable provided the drive purchase of hardware. Apple has a more holistic approach and if AppleTV drives iPhone and set top box sales because it's an integral part of the ecosystem, they'll be okay with that. No other streaming company apart from maybe Disney operates like this. For them, streaming is THE business. For Apple, hardware sales is THE business, and streaming is just a value-add to that business. So it's hard to compare Apple's streaming efforts to the rest of the industry because it doesn't work the same. Is Apple silicon business as profitable as Nvidia? It's kind of a nonsensical question.

I have a iPad pro but I dislike apple hardware, I watch apple tv on my gaming pc driving my TV for at least 16 years. Apple TV is good and I will support them as long as it takes. They have an excellent creative direction and produce really good films and series. The word will get out and they might grow a lot in the next 5 years. Netflix looks like AOL site from the 90s, and they are going for cheap reality TV stuff, prime is atrocious as an experience...like the rest of amazon, they try to sell you stuff, they have student films on 10K budget, it has the aroma of scammers. Disney is better and they produce a few nice things but they are not edgy. In the UK HBO max is part of SKY that I will never pay for but in 2026 they will be separated.

 

[balthazarr]

Quality over quantity will pay off over time. A billion sounds like a huge amount, but it's a drop in the Apple ocean.

I see it more as a halo product - great marketing (especially when winning awards) and generating buzz about Apple and its products.

Steady as she goes, Tim. Don't listen to the perpetual-next-quarter shareholders on this one.

 

[badboybubby]

shame as the quality of their streaming is pretty much top tier.

 

[rapier]

Fewer and fewer people are going to be streaming in the future as they will be busy trying so survive in a real life anarchistic dystopia.

 

[pocal]

So, two things about AppleTV+.
1) Historically, Apple has very long time horizons on products and services. They're generally okay if a service loses money for 5-10 years so long as it's achieving the overall goal. iTMS didn't make money for ages.
2) Apple views these services as value-add for the products. As such, they don't necessarily need to be profitable provided the drive purchase of hardware. Apple has a more holistic approach and if AppleTV drives iPhone and set top box sales because it's an integral part of the ecosystem, they'll be okay with that. No other streaming company apart from maybe Disney operates like this. For them, streaming is THE business. For Apple, hardware sales is THE business, and streaming is just a value-add to that business. So it's hard to compare Apple's streaming efforts to the rest of the industry because it doesn't work the same. Is Apple silicon business as profitable as Nvidia? It's kind of a nonsensical question.

Point 2 doesn't hold up. I own no Apple hardware at all and have no intention of ever owning any, but I subscribe to TV+ and find the quality/trash ratio much better than all the other streamers. Long may it continue.

 

[veldrin]

I expect its days are numbered given that it is the only major streaming service that I'm actually happy to pay for. I don't particularly fancy shoveling money in their direction, but the quality of absolutely there.

Plus they managed to make an Android TV app that works very well. That should be an impossibly low bar, but most of their streaming competitors fall flat on their face trying to step over it. Max and Disney+ get pretty close in terms of usability, but the quality of the content is much lower, for the most part. They all have some good shows or movies, but you have to wade through a mountain of shit to find the rare gems, whereas Apple TV+ has zero filter. Even the stuff that I don't personally enjoy is obviously well made by people who at least appear to give a shit.

 

[jesse1]

AppleTV+ has a nerdy bend to it so I dont think the response about it at Ars is representative to the general public and profitability

 

[Oldmanalex]

So Apple is churning out good content and not increasing prices and just waiting while Netflix et al shit the bed?

I guess with their other sources of income, it makes sense for them to do that. I don’t know that the ‘tying to Apple ecosystem’ pretext was ever anything other than that.

They just need a large enough library to look reasonably attractive as everyone else riddles their "primo" experience with ads, and stealing all of your personal data. At that point an Apple TV will be a relatively cheap, and very capable, ticket to, relatively speaking, nirvana.

 

[itxpressnc]

I mean, when Apple’s net revenue was about $391 Billion in 2024, with $93.74 Billion in profit, losing a billion is basically a rounding error.
If someone high up enough in the corporate chain enjoys the prestige that comes with making, well, prestige television, they could probably lose 10x that without breaking a sweat.

Exactly. How is this even news? You earned $93 billion instead of $94 billion??? All while trying to build a sustainable streaming service? OMG the horror!!!

Rich people are weird.

 

[BrokenOmelette]

I have Apple TV and Max for the quality shows, Disney mostly for the kids (mostly…), MUBI for my arthouse fix & Prime because it’s dirt cheap. I have given up on Netflix after having failed to find anything remotely interesting for months on end.
Not everybody has Apple TV, but those who do love it.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

You are not alone. All this hype about presumably superior quality of Apple TV+ content is just a typical Apple echo chamber. People either watch too little from other sources or are too susceptible to Apple PR. Yes, Severance and Silo are OK SciFi shows, but nothing special. Granted there have not been a lot of new SciFi shows lately but that's about it. There are plenty of as good or better shows elsewhere, especially on Netflix.

Lmao. I'm the furthest thing from an Apple fan.

Comparing it to Netflix, it's cheaper, they don't play stupid games with subscription tiers, and their content is better than the swill Netflix has been pumping out for the last few years.

 

[dylane]

So, two things about AppleTV+.
1) Historically, Apple has very long time horizons on products and services. They're generally okay if a service loses money for 5-10 years so long as it's achieving the overall goal. iTMS didn't make money for ages.
2) Apple views these services as value-add for the products. As such, they don't necessarily need to be profitable provided the drive purchase of hardware. Apple has a more holistic approach and if AppleTV drives iPhone and set top box sales because it's an integral part of the ecosystem, they'll be okay with that. No other streaming company apart from maybe Disney operates like this. For them, streaming is THE business. For Apple, hardware sales is THE business, and streaming is just a value-add to that business. So it's hard to compare Apple's streaming efforts to the rest of the industry because it doesn't work the same. Is Apple silicon business as profitable as Nvidia? It's kind of a nonsensical question.

I have to wonder how the logic of that works though. I've been subscribing to AppleTV+ for a few months now. I generally think the content is great and is a good value. Yet, I don't own a single Apple hardware product and nothing with the TV service screams out that it would be better if I only had an iPhone.

Now, Roku's latest moves do have me considering an AppleTV. But when I researched it, there were reports of a ToS change requiring an iPhone to accept, and other features not working without one. The ecosystem keeps me away rather than driving a sale.

 

[Labman]

At this point Apple TV+ is the only streaming platform that is synonymous with good sci-fi.

I’ll keep paying for it over any other streaming service as long as they keep producing shows like Severance, Silo, Foundation, For All Mankind, etc.

Other great shows like Slow Horses or Ted Lasso are just gravy on top of that.

This is my thought process, too. Plus, getting people onto the Apple TV platform increases sales of movies & TV shows. I would rather buy my movies from Apple than from any other platform because the streaming video quality just better due to a a higher bit rate.

 

[SnoopCatt]

I'm reminded of the quote attributed to Walt Disney:
“We don't make movies to make money. We make money to make more movies.”

Although TV and movies aren't Apple's core business, I can imagine Tim Cook and Eddie Cue voicing the same sentiment

 

[RickVS]

I was subscribing to Apple TV+ at $6.99 per month then cancelled it when it went to $10 per month. Some of that content I now get from alternative sources.

 

[graylshaped]

If it helps sell Apple devices, they probably think it is worth it.

Also, I know a lot of folks sign up for their Apple One plan, which includes TV+, Arcade, more storage, Music, etc. I'm curious if this was factored in. Once you subscribe to 3-4 of their individual services the one plan pays for itself (or used to, I haven't looked at it since the last cost increase)

I was wondering the same thing--how they apportion revenue across the bundle.

 

[graylshaped]

I'm reminded of the quote attributed to Walt Disney:
“We don't make movies to make money. We make money to make more movies.”

Not just movies. Most people don't know Mary Poppins paid for the Matterhorn, which brought a significant advancement in rollercoaster technology at the time.

 

[Still Breathing]

Well Apple TV+ is in it's 6th year and still losing billions if they ever expect a profit it looks like they will be disappointed.

As to hardware sales those were doing amazingly long before add-on's and based on reports on usage these media add-ons cost a lot of money for negligible returns.

The initial assumption was that they'd lose $15-20B over the first 10 years. After that it starts to build on itself, and the mantra of quality over quantity starts to become just "lots of quality".

Not the first, just the best.

 

[bodrius]

Amazon Prime…

prime memberships is the business

I have to wonder now how much Amazon Prime gets from other streaming referrals/ partnerships.

Prime Video used to have the problem of having decent original content under an atrocious user interface.

Now a lot of the more appealing content on their app is from other sources, and the orig content is not interesting but just ok enough for family movie night you might as well start there and buy/rent or stream from Max it something jumps out.

They're like the usanetwork from early cable for streaming - not the reason most people bought the package but somehow the remote spent a lof of time on that channel

 

[jdawgnoonan]

I have yet to see a bad show on Apple TV+, it is the only streaming service that I can say that about. I hope that they keep it going even if it is not making money yet.

 

[abazigal]

You expect it to wrap up? I'm expecting it to become the new Lost.

Apple was willing to wrap See and Ted Lasso up in 3 seasons. I think they have the discipline to not stretch out their shows needlessly. They tell a story, and then move on when the current one is done.

 

[brud]

The Information report claims notable losses for Apple's only service in the red.

See full article...

My wife got 3 months FREE of Apple TV+ for buying an M2 Macbook Air so I signed her up. I have purchased many apple products over the years and gotten free 3 months of something. I usually sign up for it and cancel right away so I wouldn't forget and accidentally have to pay for the next month after it expired. When I went to cancel this time it said that my free 3 months of Apple TV+ would immediately end if I cancelled early. They must make some money off of people forgetting to cancel. It was nice to see they are worth almost $4tn and still felt the need to squeeze a subatomic amount of $$ out of their loyal customers by hoping they would forget to cancel in time. Very Apple like.

 

[Still Breathing]

Apple was willing to wrap See and Ted Lasso up in 3 seasons. I think they have the discipline to not stretch out their shows needlessly. They tell a story, and then move on when the current one is done.

Well, Ted is apparently back for season 4...

If you're going to do that, you need to do a "Blackadder goes forth" and kill off the entire cast in the last show. That way it's a lot harder to be tempted into a new run...

 

[Mustachioed Copy Cat]

They just need a large enough library to look reasonably attractive as everyone else riddles their "primo" experience with ads, and stealing all of your personal data. At that point an Apple TV will be a relatively cheap, and very capable, ticket to, relatively speaking, nirvana.

Which is goddamn ridiculous considering how most of their physical devices are positioned as having a ‘premium’ cost.

 

[Still Breathing]

Which is goddamn ridiculous considering how most of their physical devices are positioned as having a ‘premium’ cost.

Apple have mastered the art of selling supposed luxury to the mass market.

Having said that, I'm typing this on an MBP M4 Max and there's no other laptop I'd swap it for, so it's more than just hype.

 

[Fristie Blade]

I pay for 4 streaming services and although I watch more on some of the other ones (because it has more content), I am seriously impressed by the quality of of the Apple TV+ productions. There is no way I will drop Apple TV+ over another service if my financial situation ever made me choose between them. Apple, please keep it up, you are doing a fantastic job on Apple TV+. Keep investing and keep it growing.

 

[robrob]

I'm always kinda confused why Apple TV+ is in the movie business. The TV business makes sense, it's services revenue. And Netflix is large enough that they can do things like churn out a new Adam Sandler movie each week and the occasional movie from one of the Marvel Chris's.

I love ATV+ and have watched most of the big name TV shows. Looking at the surprisingly long list of movies they've made I see two that I watched.