Consequences of the US 2024 Presidential Election: Global Geopolitics Edition

The formula is explained here https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-04/how-were-trumps-tariffs-calculated/105136808
For Lesotho specifically, the US ran a trade deficit in 2024 of $234m. Imports to the US were $237m, so the "unequal trade barriers" that Lesotho has supposedly "imposed" as calculated by Trump's idiots is 234/237, or close to 100%. Halve that and you get 50%
As a South African, Trump being an absolute dick to Lesotho greatly insults me. Lesotho has enough terrible things to worry about (The highest infection rate of HIV/AIDS just being one of them). They are the poorest of the poor living in possibly the coldest most desolate climate in Africa. This is the one African country that is regularly covered in snow, sometimes it even snows there in summer. Their tradional dress there is a blanket wrapped around them

South Africa has invested heavily into their textile manufacturing industry and water projects (See Lesotho Highlands Water Project which supplies Johannesburg with water) but other than that they really don't have much beyond some mining. Even roads there are a luxury.

On behalf of Lesotho and all of Southern Africa I'd just like to say: FUCK YOU TRUMP, YOU ORANGE DICKBAG
 
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Sylro

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Some countries certainly will cave.

I am pretty curious about what will happen - there is vast distrust toward the US as a partner in, well, pretty much anything now. The US may feel that it is super important, but the population is pretty small really - ~340Million - on the global scale that constitutes about 4.22% of the total world population.

And while the buying power of the US is fairly high somewhere between 15% and 26% depending on the way that it is calculated, it also imports a lot more 'stuff' than it exports.

The biggest exporters to the US ?
  • Mexico: Accounted for 15.2% of total U.S. imports, approximately $509.98 billion.
  • China: Represented 13.4% of imports, totalling around $448.74 billion.
  • Canada: Contributed 12.6% of imports, about $421.86 billion.
While on the surface you might think that these three might cave ?

Well I disagree....

China are probably the least effected by this - out of this top three - at worst it will just increase the cost of technology in the US and have an impact on supply chains - but really China has a huge market outside of the US and as such it will hurt American consumers way more than Chinese manufacturing, they are super effective at pivoting and will do so quickly and effortlessly once more. Imagine the US without access to the latest tech, of the latest chips or the latest Temu crap - My bet is that the US will cave long before China will give a crap.

Canada looks really interesting too - much of their exports to the US are automotive and agricultural. Given the US's appetite for cars and need for food and their inability to to spin up local replacements in a reasonable timescale, I cannot see this harming Canada anywhere near as much as the US - higher grocery prices, higher car prices etc. They are already redirecting to other trading partners and use their "world’s politest" card to garner sympathy on the global stage to great effect. In related news, Maple syrup appeared on the shelf of my local corner shop recently. The US needs Canada way more than Canada needs the US. Being a part of the 'Trump fucked us over' club will really help them find new markets fast.

Mexico looks slightly more vulnerable to the tariffs to me, but again it's mostly automotive, so cars/trucks rise in price, there will be a short-term reduction in purchases, until wages grow to absorb the tariffs, then off we go again - there is literally no way that the US can brung up car / truck plants almost instantly, so prices and wages shoot up. A move which will utterly slaughter the US's economy. Meanwhile, Mexico has quietly been improving trade ties with the EU and Latin America. If U.S. demand dips, they won’t collapse, they will pivot a little to cover.

Really, the biggest (perhaps only) losers are the US - prices will rise and wages will need to rise to match, inflation may not get to hyper levels, but it will be considerable. Which will then make US goods and services even less competitive on the world stage, which will decimate exports.

Which feels like a bad thing - except for the rest of the world.

What we’re witnessing is a kind of economic isolation cosplay - the idea that a modern, globally entwined nation can slap on tariffs and “win” is pure fantasy. In our hyperconnected world, you don’t win trade wars, it is just an exercise in self harm really.

I cannot see anyone meaningfully cave on this - I am sure that there will be trade negotiations and little bits and pieces of fealty paid, but the overall effect will be to absolutely trash the US economy long before anyone needs to actually fully cave in.
 

Shavano

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The smaller more US-dependent countries like Vietnam tried to cave and negotiate 0% tariffs across the board. Navarro said that wasn't nearly enough. I wonder what would be enough? 52nd 53rd State?
They want bribes. Trump is practically saying it out loud.
 

Neill78

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I am pretty curious about what will happen - there is vast distrust toward the US as a partner in, well, pretty much anything now. The US may feel that it is super important, but the population is pretty small really - ~340Million - on the global scale that constitutes about 4.22% of the total world population.

And while the buying power of the US is fairly high somewhere between 15% and 26% depending on the way that it is calculated, it also imports a lot more 'stuff' than it exports.

The biggest exporters to the US ?
  • Mexico: Accounted for 15.2% of total U.S. imports, approximately $509.98 billion.
  • China: Represented 13.4% of imports, totalling around $448.74 billion.
  • Canada: Contributed 12.6% of imports, about $421.86 billion.
While on the surface you might think that these three might cave ?

Well I disagree....

China are probably the least effected by this - out of this top three - at worst it will just increase the cost of technology in the US and have an impact on supply chains - but really China has a huge market outside of the US and as such it will hurt American consumers way more than Chinese manufacturing, they are super effective at pivoting and will do so quickly and effortlessly once more. Imagine the US without access to the latest tech, of the latest chips or the latest Temu crap - My bet is that the US will cave long before China will give a crap.

Canada looks really interesting too - much of their exports to the US are automotive and agricultural. Given the US's appetite for cars and need for food and their inability to to spin up local replacements in a reasonable timescale, I cannot see this harming Canada anywhere near as much as the US - higher grocery prices, higher car prices etc. They are already redirecting to other trading partners and use their "world’s politest" card to garner sympathy on the global stage to great effect. In related news, Maple syrup appeared on the shelf of my local corner shop recently. The US needs Canada way more than Canada needs the US. Being a part of the 'Trump fucked us over' club will really help them find new markets fast.

Mexico looks slightly more vulnerable to the tariffs to me, but again it's mostly automotive, so cars/trucks rise in price, there will be a short-term reduction in purchases, until wages grow to absorb the tariffs, then off we go again - there is literally no way that the US can brung up car / truck plants almost instantly, so prices and wages shoot up. A move which will utterly slaughter the US's economy. Meanwhile, Mexico has quietly been improving trade ties with the EU and Latin America. If U.S. demand dips, they won’t collapse, they will pivot a little to cover.

Really, the biggest (perhaps only) losers are the US - prices will rise and wages will need to rise to match, inflation may not get to hyper levels, but it will be considerable. Which will then make US goods and services even less competitive on the world stage, which will decimate exports.

Which feels like a bad thing - except for the rest of the world.

What we’re witnessing is a kind of economic isolation cosplay - the idea that a modern, globally entwined nation can slap on tariffs and “win” is pure fantasy. In our hyperconnected world, you don’t win trade wars, it is just an exercise in self harm really.

I cannot see anyone meaningfully cave on this - I am sure that there will be trade negotiations and little bits and pieces of fealty paid, but the overall effect will be to absolutely trash the US economy long before anyone needs to actually fully cave in.
As a child in Canada, my city had a thriving textile industry, meat packers, vegetable markets, manufacturing... A very diverse economy. From the 70's through the 90's all that disappeared, along with a fairly good national automotive, aerospace, and telecoms industry, solely due to neoliberal pressure, free trade pressure, and appeasing the US military industrial complex's disdain for local competition.

Almost every country on earth has been altered to fit America's just-in-time system, at great expense to their autonomy and diversity of industry.

And now one idiot is just tossing it away as if the rest of the world hasn't done everything America has asked for over the past 50 years.

I just hope this will also reverse the brain drain to help the rest of us re-diversify quickly and efficiently. As a tail-end gen xer every year since high school has made my future bleaker, and now Trump has hit the fast forward button.

Edit: mobile phone swipe keyboard mistakes 🙄
 
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Neverm1nd

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I am pretty curious about what will happen - there is vast distrust toward the US as a partner in, well, pretty much anything now. The US may feel that it is super important, but the population is pretty small really - ~340Million - on the global scale that constitutes about 4.22% of the total world population.

And while the buying power of the US is fairly high somewhere between 15% and 26% depending on the way that it is calculated, it also imports a lot more 'stuff' than it exports.

The biggest exporters to the US ?
  • Mexico: Accounted for 15.2% of total U.S. imports, approximately $509.98 billion.
  • China: Represented 13.4% of imports, totalling around $448.74 billion.
  • Canada: Contributed 12.6% of imports, about $421.86 billion.
While on the surface you might think that these three might cave ?

Well I disagree....

China are probably the least effected by this - out of this top three - at worst it will just increase the cost of technology in the US and have an impact on supply chains - but really China has a huge market outside of the US and as such it will hurt American consumers way more than Chinese manufacturing, they are super effective at pivoting and will do so quickly and effortlessly once more. Imagine the US without access to the latest tech, of the latest chips or the latest Temu crap - My bet is that the US will cave long before China will give a crap.

Canada looks really interesting too - much of their exports to the US are automotive and agricultural. Given the US's appetite for cars and need for food and their inability to to spin up local replacements in a reasonable timescale, I cannot see this harming Canada anywhere near as much as the US - higher grocery prices, higher car prices etc. They are already redirecting to other trading partners and use their "world’s politest" card to garner sympathy on the global stage to great effect. In related news, Maple syrup appeared on the shelf of my local corner shop recently. The US needs Canada way more than Canada needs the US. Being a part of the 'Trump fucked us over' club will really help them find new markets fast.

Mexico looks slightly more vulnerable to the tariffs to me, but again it's mostly automotive, so cars/trucks rise in price, there will be a short-term reduction in purchases, until wages grow to absorb the tariffs, then off we go again - there is literally no way that the US can brung up car / truck plants almost instantly, so prices and wages shoot up. A move which will utterly slaughter the US's economy. Meanwhile, Mexico has quietly been improving trade ties with the EU and Latin America. If U.S. demand dips, they won’t collapse, they will pivot a little to cover.

Really, the biggest (perhaps only) losers are the US - prices will rise and wages will need to rise to match, inflation may not get to hyper levels, but it will be considerable. Which will then make US goods and services even less competitive on the world stage, which will decimate exports.

Which feels like a bad thing - except for the rest of the world.

What we’re witnessing is a kind of economic isolation cosplay - the idea that a modern, globally entwined nation can slap on tariffs and “win” is pure fantasy. In our hyperconnected world, you don’t win trade wars, it is just an exercise in self harm really.

I cannot see anyone meaningfully cave on this - I am sure that there will be trade negotiations and little bits and pieces of fealty paid, but the overall effect will be to absolutely trash the US economy long before anyone needs to actually fully cave in.
Not quite. The US biggest trading partner, both in imports and exports, is the EU:

1744032333481.png

There's a meeting today to discuss the EU's response to the first rounds of tariff (i.e., the steel & aluminium tariffs, not the later ones). The response won't be finalized until Friday at the earliest, but while von der Leyen talks about being open to negotiations with the US, she also said:
"the EU’s focus will be on the 83% of its trade that is not conducted with the United States"
which sounds more like they're just going to counter the tariffs and move on with trying to salvage the economy through other trade deals. There's also talk of a new stimulus package to soften the impact of the tariffs, which looks like they're counting on them being in force for the forseeable future.
 

tigas

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And the markets pumped-and-dumped 5% in those 15 minutes

Edit to add:
Get this: TFOG just posited adding 50% to China's tariffs, for a total of 104%.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114297331052690348
Yesterday, China issued Retaliatory Tariffs of 34%, on top of their already record setting Tariffs, Non-Monetary Tariffs, Illegal Subsidization of companies, and massive long term Currency Manipulation, despite my warning that any country that Retaliates against the U.S. by issuing additional Tariffs, above and beyond their already existing long term Tariff abuse of our Nation, will be immediately met with new and substantially higher Tariffs, over and above those initially set. Therefore, if China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long term trading abuses by tomorrow, April 8th, 2025, the United States will impose ADDITIONAL Tariffs on China of 50%, effective April 9th. Additionally, all talks with China concerning their requested meetings with us will be terminated! Negotiations with other countries, which have also requested meetings, will begin taking place immediately. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
 
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N4M8-

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Almost every country on earth has been altered to fit America's just-in-time system, at great expense to their autonomy and diversity of industry.
The world, including the US, came to Just In Time because of its success in Japan, particularly Toyota.
 

herko

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And the markets pumped-and-dumped 5% in those 15 minutes

Edit to add:
Get this: TFOG just posited adding 50% to China's tariffs, for a total of 104%.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114297331052690348
/// OFFICIAL MODERATION NOTICE ///


I'm guessing this means "The Formidable Orange Guy"? Or, to paraphrase Mad Heidi, Our Very Orange President? Regardless, if you mean Donald Trump, Trump, the US President, or anything of the sort, say so. Cutesy names are not allowed under SoapBox rules.

7-day vacation, next one is an OW and permanent.
 

ramases

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The EU called Trump's bluff, offers to reciprocal zero-rate all tariffs on industrial goods.

Meanwhile everyone on this side of the Atlantic treats Peter Navarro and with exactly the amount of consideration he deserves: Zero. VAT is a net-value[0] consumption tax, not a tariff, and it is charged without regard for a good's origination country.

Food safety standards, likewise, not a trade barrier in the sense that it is applied regardless of a good's origination country. If the US exports goods that meets the requirements they can be sold just as goods from an EU country could be sold; if they don't, they cannot be sold, just like goods from any other country that don't meet code, including EU goods.

[0] For consumption of intermediary products you can offset the VAT on the outflow with the VAT you paid on the inflow, ie you are only taxed on the value-add as determined by purchase vs. sale price. Hence the name.
 

Tijger

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The EU is not a country.

It’s also way less dysfunctional than it was pre Trump .

In terms of trade it is however, its a trading bloc that uses the same rules for all imports and exports. It also has FTA's with quite a few countries and is working hard on more of those right now.
 

Neverm1nd

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The EU is not a country.

It’s also way less dysfunctional than it was pre Trump .
For trade purposes, it might as well be. The Trump regime has a unitary tariff rate for the EU and treats it as a country in this sense, and the EU has a common trade policy, and will decide on a joint response.
 

iPilot05

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The EU called Trump's bluff, offers to reciprocal zero-rate all tariffs on industrial goods.
This was on the table when Trump entered the White House and he scuttled it in 2016. So basically they're asking for what they wanted in the first place. Essentially NAFTA all over again by renegotiating the original deal and somehow Trump will call it a win.
 
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hamete

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For trade purposes, it might as well be. The Trump regime has a unitary tariff rate for the EU and treats it as a country in this sense, and the EU has a common trade policy, and will decide on a joint response.
Is it? Trade within EU countries is common but does that mean external trading agreements or tariffs are common as well? I actually don't know...

https://www.ft.com/content/78c4bf13-cd45-456d-8ebe-4336e03f1a3a

Using Trump's formula would have impacted each EU country differently, so some were hurt and some benefited from being treated as a single block. Then some countries benefited from exceptions.
 

Neverm1nd

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Is it? Trade within EU countries is common but does that mean external trading agreements or tariffs are common as well? I actually don't know...

https://www.ft.com/content/78c4bf13-cd45-456d-8ebe-4336e03f1a3a

Using Trump's formula would have impacted each EU country differently, so some were hurt and some benefited from being treated as a single block. Then some countries benefited from exceptions.
Yes. Individual EU countries cannot enter into bilateral trade agreements, and all trade agreements are at the EU level. Dito for tariffs. Trade policy is an EU competency.
 

Tijger

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Is it? Trade within EU countries is common but does that mean external trading agreements or tariffs are common as well? I actually don't know...

https://www.ft.com/content/78c4bf13-cd45-456d-8ebe-4336e03f1a3a

Using Trump's formula would have impacted each EU country differently, so some were hurt and some benefited from being treated as a single block. Then some countries benefited from exceptions.

As a PS to the post from Neverm1nd: Trump, or rather the person who made up these tariffs, is a liar and an idiot.
 

Neverm1nd

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Got it. Thanks. So similar to US States. Which makes sense…
Yes, doing it any other way wouldn't really work. If there's completely free trade within the union, all trade with another country would just transship through the member state with the best trade agreement, so any deal would affect the entire union anyway.
 

Auguste_Fivaz

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Got it. Thanks. So similar to US States. Which makes sense…
Except for California where our Governor has said we'll negotiate as the 5th largest trader in the world. We'll see won't we.

On another note, there was this bit buried close to the bottom of the summary of the EU position:

The Irish deputy prime minister will then meet the US commerce secretary in the US capital on Wednesday to press home Irish and EU interests in de-escalating the dispute, which affects the Irish dairy and pharma sectors.

The EU’s never-used anti-coercion law would allow the bloc to take wide-ranging measures against a country deemed to be using trade as a weapon, such as suspending intellectual property rights, revoking licences to do business in the EU and banning companies from bidding for public contracts. (my bold)

Šefčovič, who was briefing ministers on his recent calls with senior US officials, said “a paradigm shift” in global trade was under way.
I think possibly Trump is getting his bloodless world war going. Pity as it will cause a lot of pain for millions of people who had nothing to do with his deranged agenda.
 

SnoopCatt

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Food safety standards, likewise, not a trade barrier in the sense that it is applied regardless of a good's origination country. If the US exports goods that meets the requirements they can be sold just as goods from an EU country could be sold; if they don't, they cannot be sold, just like goods from any other country that don't meet code, including EU goods.
This is similar to the case with trading uncooked meat (e.g. beef) with Australia, which seems to be a perennial complaint from US ranchers.
Australia has very strong biosecurity measures in place to keep out diseases like mad cow disease. Beef that is born, raised, and slaughtered in the US is not restricted, but since the US supply chain is co-mingled with beef from the Canada and Mexico, biosecurity restrictions apply.
Beef from Japan and New Zealand is allowed.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04...ans-american-beef-imports-incorrect/105139686
 

Tijger

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Except for California where our Governor has said we'll negotiate as the 5th largest trader in the world. We'll see won't we.

Newsom can say whatever he likes but it just wont fly. Other States have puffed and huffed about the same thing, Florida even signed a trade agreement with the UK (talk about not being worth the paper its written on) but at the end of the day its all meaningless drivel, States cannot override the Federal authority over this no matter how insane that Federal authority is.
 
I think possibly Trump is getting his bloodless world war going. Pity as it will cause a lot of pain for millions of people who had nothing to do with his deranged agenda.
That's true. Many Americans carry a lot of blame for that though. It won't be forgotten.
 

9600man

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Time difference so I’m waking up to the news of what happened in the US over night.

1) It feels like Trump is playing chicken with all the other countries.

2) We’re going to see how effective these supposed negotiations are or if they’re really loyalty pledges with fees. Which I don’t imagine will work really well. The US was already seen with suspicion as a patronising partner. So Trump only turns the dial up on something the US is seen as, not introducing a new variable.
 

Gary Patterson

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That's true. Many Americans carry a lot of blame for that though. It won't be forgotten.
Politically, this should devastate conservative parties around the world. They’ve all said things like Trump around government staffing and many initially supported his stance on trade.

Now that it’s kicking off, stocks are falling and all those older people looking to retire are seeing their superannuation and investments devaluing in real time. That means more years of work until the numbers creep back up to retirement level. These people vote.

Even those that love their job and want to continue can’t be pleased to see their nest egg shrink in front of them.

Every person in that group should see this as a direct result of conservative policies enacted in the US through Trump.

Any half decent left wing party should make sure this albatross is hung around the conservative neck in every election for the next decade or two.

Trump, with his moronic cabal of incompetents, has made life harder and pushed back retirement for people right across the globe.

(Edit) And no, we won’t forget how the US lost its mind. We will never allow the US to be preeminent in the world again. That empire will not rise again.
 

Auguste_Fivaz

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In The Guardian is a piece about this new suit against Trump's use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) is unlawful:

1744071095464.png

Mark Chenoweth, the alliance’s president, said the court in Pensacola – where the suit has been filed – would have to observe this legal precedent.

“Reading this law [IEEPA] broadly enough to uphold the China tariff would transfer core legislative power,” he said. “To avoid that non-delegation pitfall, the court must construe the statute consistent with nearly 50 years of unbroken practice and decide it does not permit tariff setting.”

The suit argues that there is no connection between the fentanyl epidemic – which Trump has cited as a reason for invoking the emergency powers – and the tariffs.

“The means of an across-the-board tariff does not fit the end of stopping an influx of opioids, and is in no sense ‘necessary’ to that stated purpose,” the complaint filed on behalf of Simplified argues.
Simplified is a retailer of Chinese goods in Florida. There is other background on the GOP's resistance to the tariffs citing Paul and Grassley.
Hard to tell what will shake out here and if it is enough to muzzle the President.

Edit: forgot the source link
Double edit: - meant to post this in the domestic thread - shoot.
 
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Shavano

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In The Guardian is a piece about this new suit against Trump's use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) is unlawful:

View attachment 107122


Simplified is a retailer of Chinese goods in Florida. There is other background on the GOP's resistance to the tariffs citing Paul and Grassley.
Hard to tell what will shake out here and if it is enough to muzzle the President.

Edit: forgot the source link
What does Trump need Koch for now?
 

bjn

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There may be method to the MAGA tariff madness, an economist on a UK science forum outlines it in the linked post. He's summarising papers and statements from Scott Bessent, the new Treasury Secretary, and Stephen Miran, an economic advisor to the administration.

So by this reading, today's tariff chaos is not an end in itself, but rather to hold other countries to the fire to get them to agree to a new international trading and financial system more amenable to America and MAGA. Though those who stay outside the US zone would remain heavily tariffed.

An initial summary of these ideas, which led me to look for the sources, were set out in an overlong youtube video by Flemish economist Joeri Schafoort.

Basically it's a rejection of the post Bretton Woods globalisation policies as implemented by Reagan, Thatcher and friends, into a world with the USA as the centre of an empire a sphere of influence with much more control influrence over it's vassal states trade partners.

https://scrutable.science/viewtopic.php?p=167587#p167587
 

Gary Patterson

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According to Wikipedia, 77,302,580, but I feel you could probably up that a bit for those that didn't vote.
Wrong thread for it, but that number is much lower than the number of USians I hold responsible and misses entirely your failed, captured media and many useless politicians.
 

ramases

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There may be method to the MAGA tariff madness, an economist on a UK science forum outlines it in the linked post. He's summarising papers and statements from Scott Bessent, the new Treasury Secretary, and Stephen Miran, an economic advisor to the administration.



Basically it's a rejection of the post Bretton Woods globalisation policies as implemented by Reagan, Thatcher and friends, into a world with the USA as the centre of an empire a sphere of influence with much more control influrence over it's vassal states trade partners.

https://scrutable.science/viewtopic.php?p=167587#p167587

There's two problems with this:

First, the notion that inequality is the product of a decline in manufacturing is out to lunch. The current inequality in the US is the result of a political choice not to counteract (or perhaps even proliferate) bottom-to-up wealth transfers and rent extraction. Moving from services back to manufacturing won't fix this as the Gilded Age both had plenty of inequality and manufacturing jobs. Anti-trust action and other means to stop rent extraction would.

Second, from a purely European perspective, there's no Soviet Union anymore we would require the US to help defend against. If we move back to a 70ties Cold War era of influence spheres, the problem for the US designs of empire is that while it may be able to use the threat of the PRC to keep Asia in line, the PRC and Europe are, in such a world, not geopolitical enemies.

We would have preferred the "old" US as a more natural partner to our values, but at the end, if the US does no longer share our values, there's little reason why we would choose to support the US over the PRC in a way that would make the PRC and Europe enemies.

In other words and to borrow the 70ties world model, Europe would be "block-free" and the defacto head figure of a new non-aligned movement. A non-aligned movement that still contains some of the most advanced economies of the world, and hence wouldn't suffer from the Cold War 1.0 era problem that most non-aligned countries lacked economic clout.
 

Tijger

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There may be method to the MAGA tariff madness, an economist on a UK science forum outlines it in the linked post. He's summarising papers and statements from Scott Bessent, the new Treasury Secretary, and Stephen Miran, an economic advisor to the administration.



Basically it's a rejection of the post Bretton Woods globalisation policies as implemented by Reagan, Thatcher and friends, into a world with the USA as the centre of an empire a sphere of influence with much more control influrence over it's vassal states trade partners.

https://scrutable.science/viewtopic.php?p=167587#p167587

I am not sure if this development will continue and what will come of it but the leader of the EU called China today to form an alliance against the US' disruption of trade, if that trend continues the sphere of influence of the US will pretty soon be, well, just the US.