Infants can form memories starting at 1, but they don’t last until later

So there's something to this
vuorvvdinfle1.jpeg
You don't need persistent long term memory of past events to be conscious.
 
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At age 73 I have three very distinct memories from early childhood, one from around age 2, and the other two from 2 yrs and 5 mos (I can date those two very accurately). I can see each of them in my mind's eye as if it was the present. Two weren't traumatic at all, and one was more a case of apprehension than significant trauma (if anyone wants, I'll recount them).

As for "Infantile Amnesia", I think it is more likely that because young children don't have a "filing system" that allows them to access memories.

First, many don't have much language, so they can't internally describe what it is they are experiencing. It is hard to distinguish between an abundance of happy experiences, an abundance of hungry experiences, etc.

Second, very few young children have a useful concept or grasp of time. Yesterday is no more reachable in their memory as two weeks ago is or six months ago because time has little meaning. The world for a young child is perpetually "are we there yet". As a parent you now there's no difference between "a little while", "an hour", or "tomorrow". It's all the same to a young child.

My opinion is that only when children develop more than rudimentary language and a sense of time are they able to "file" or "organize" their memories such that they can access them.

A good test might be to ask people when did they learn to speak, and then read, and compare that with how far back their earliest memories are.

Those early memories? They're there, in random locations, and in many cases indistinguishable one from the other.
 
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labuerkle

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Not sure I believe this correct or maybe outlier. I have my first memory at 1 and half and a few at 2 years old. They were happy memories and still vivid today. At 2 when I had my birthday I can remember family trying to get me to eat cake with my hands and mouth and didnt want to since the day before was slapped on hands for not using a spoon for food. No matter how hard family tried to get me to eat cake with hands and mouth I wouldnt since punished for that. Maybe my brain wiring different since I'm autistic?
 
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Ikcelaks

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At age 73 I have three very distinct memories from early childhood, one from around age 2, and the other two from 2 yrs and 5 mos (I can date those two very accurately). I can see each of them in my mind's eye as if it was the present. Two weren't traumatic at all, and one was more a case of apprehension than significant trauma (if anyone wants, I'll recount them).

As for "Infantile Amnesia", I think it is more likely that because young children don't have a "filing system" that allows them to access memories.

First, many don't have much language, so they can't internally describe what it is they are experiencing. It is hard to distinguish between an abundance of happy experiences, an abundance of hungry experiences, etc.

Second, very few young children have a useful concept or grasp of time. Yesterday is no more reachable in their memory as two weeks ago is or six months ago because time has little meaning. The world for a young child is perpetually "are we there yet". As a parent you now there's no difference between "a little while", "an hour", or "tomorrow". It's all the same to a young child.

My opinion is that only when children develop more than rudimentary language and a sense of time are they able to "file" or "organize" their memories such that they can access them.

A good test might be to ask people when did they learn to speak, and then read, and compare that with how far back their earliest memories are.

Those early memories? They're there, in random locations, and in many cases indistinguishable one from the other.
Interesting theory. I have a few "memories" from before I was four, but they all feel vague and dream-like. They more like memories of memories, which is exactly what I think they are. I believe that my infantile amnesia really affects memories before I was about 4.5 years old, because I have much more vivid memories of my brother as an older baby / early toddler than as an infant, and I had just turned four when he was born.
 
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Corporate_Goon

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"But nobody really remembers much before the age of 4, because nearly all humans experience what's termed "infantile amnesia," in which memories that might have formed before that age seemingly vanish as we move through adolescence."

Nobody is a strong word, I have heaps of memories from below 3.5 years, and I know heaps of people with memories from that age too.
I can't say I know anyone who has "heaps" of memories from before the age of four, but I definitely have a handful that date to being two or three years old.
 
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TheWerewolf

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I'm sorry - I genuinely am... but "infantile amnesia" may well be the worse name for a condition or process ever invented.

It could mean "amnesia only infants get as a condition/illness" or "a very childish form of amnesia that causes the victim to behave like an infant" or any of several other surreal possibilities.

"Forgetting the memories of one's early childhood" though is almost the least obvious meaning.

I mean try "infancy amnesia" (still bad) or "infancy autorepression" (much better)
 
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bebu

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This reminds me of a story in an early Mary Poppins book. It’s about two toddlers, who can understand the language of birds and trees - all toddlers can. But the skill goes away as they grow older.

I googled for the passage from the book:

“We understand everything,” said John. “Wind and trees and stars and birds and the language of the sun. Why, we can even hear the grass growing.”

“But they won’t always understand, will they?” said the Starling.

“No,” said Mary Poppins, “they’ll forget, just as all the others have. It’s the same with them all. Even the cleverest forget. They’ll forget because they’re growing older. And when they’ve forgotten, they’ll be like everyone else. No use to themselves or to anyone else.”
I was thinking of exactly that reference (Mary Poppins, Ch.9 John and Barbara's Story.)
I was wondering whether the idea, found in many cultures, that we forget any residual memories of past lives, arose partly to explain the experience of infantile amnesia.
In P.L.Travers case she was immersed in many of the ideas floating around in the early twentieth century including Theosophy and the ideas of G. I. Gurdjieff. I guess the 1920s were pretty nutty too.
 
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LotusPoet

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Evolutionary psychiatry is often about as valid as Freud, by which I mean "not very", so I suppose it's an apt comparison.
From a layman's perspective, I'm happy not remembering breast feeding my mom, and I'd rather keep it that way. My therapy sessions are already weird enough.
 
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From a layman's perspective, I'm happy not remembering breast feeding my mom, and I'd rather keep it that way. My therapy sessions are already weird enough.
I know it's not what you meant, but the grammatical structure of how you said it did give me a rather ridiculous image in my head, thank you.
 
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