In this episode of 'Things That Piss Me Off'.........

SandyTech

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Client decided to have their facilities team do the structured wiring in their new office spaces. And they managed to fuck it entirely up. Stranded Ethernet cable in the walls, homemade solid wire patch cables everywhere, and each person involved used their own colour code.

And of course it’s my fault nothing works and they are in shambles.
 

bjn

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robots.txt isn't a magic bullet either, anybody can just say fuck it and scrape anyway.
Any point in writing a scraper trap? On your main page have links to a page that generates garbage-ish text. That page also has links on it to the random garbage generator. Those are of course also generated. Use the URL to seed the garbage generator so your get consistent garbage. Have as many pages as your can generate URLs for. 2^64 should be a nice round number. Have a robots.txt to warn off scrapers. If something keeps digging around in the crap, it will be a scraper, so block the IP address.
 
Adding from the help and feedback. Sorry for crossposting your stuff Oddabe19, but I wanted to make sure the Lounge see’s this:


The /civis/ stuff on the robots.txt is new. And goes a long way towards a positive outcome. Nothing will stop someone from scraping if they choose to do so - that is true for the internet as a whole. But this at least is a step, and nominally puts the fora back into that ‘do-not-scrape’ position it’s been in for the last 11 months.
 

von Chaps

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It makes the timing on the removal of the VR interesting...
Yes. That's what I thought and that, as much as anything else, gets my goat. I understand that TPTB were probably not allowed to say why, but the "reasoning" for removing it seemed specious to me.

Whilst it is fair to say that Ars (including comments and forums) has been scraped forever, this emerging capability will allow some pretty scarey inferences to be made about posters. I often wondered what could be gleaned about someone with, say, 10k posts, if they could all be inspected as a corpus. Well, I guess we are about to find out.

I don't like the rise of the machine LLM, but I am much more concerned with people deanonymised for profit. Consider those posting in the ADHD thread suddenly being denied health insurance or those admitting to liking a good drink not being able to get vehicle insurance.

I'll bet an LLM could deanonymise most people who post here in a heartbeat. I have always been circumspect about what I post online (and it's pretty much only on Ars). Now? Meh. I think I'm out. It's not worth the risk.
 
Yes. That's what I thought and that, as much as anything else, gets my goat. I understand that TPTB were probably not allowed to say why, but the "reasoning" for removing it seemed specious to me.

Whilst it is fair to say that Ars (including comments and forums) has been scraped forever, this emerging capability will allow some pretty scarey inferences to be made about posters. I often wondered what could be gleaned about someone with, say, 10k posts, if they could all be inspected as a corpus. Well, I guess we are about to find out.

I don't like the rise of the machine LLM, but I am much more concerned with people deanonymised for profit. Consider those posting in the ADHD thread suddenly being denied health insurance or those admitting to liking a good drink not being able to get vehicle insurance.

I'll bet an LLM could deanonymise most people who post here in a heartbeat. I have always been circumspect about what I post online (and it's pretty much only on Ars). Now? Meh. I think I'm out. It's not worth the risk.
See the post literally above yours where they put the fora specifically in the ‘disallow’ list for any and all LLM scrapers in the robots.txt file. It really does appear that Open AI gets to scrape the journalism, and that’s it.

But in this future we’re entering? The only way to not have this happen by some LLM eventually (now, even, if they ignore the robots.txt) is to not participate at all, anywhere.

I hope everyone sticks around. But if not, I understand. I’ll miss you if you go.
 
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von Chaps

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See the post literally above yours where they put the fora specifically in the ‘disallow’ list for any and all LLM scrapers in the robots.txt file. It really does appear that Open AI gets to scrape the journalism, and that’s it.
Well, that is in no way binding or enforceable. It relies on voluntary cooperation. Which may or may not occur and may or may not lead to law suits.

The point is, Ars via Condé Nast is now officially "in bed" with the LLM parasites. This only goes one way.

The correct way to address this is to make the forums login access only. That stops the bot crawling.
 

headache

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The correct way to address this is to make the forums login access only. That stops the bot crawling.
Couple thoughts:
1) That only works until someone decides the content is worth enough to spend 5 minutes setting up an account for the bot to scrape with. A login is required to post, that's still a very porous barrier to spammers.
2) Locking the reading of discussions behind a login requirement is an almost surefire way to completely stop any newcomers to the community. I lurked for years before making an account, then years more before starting to post more regularly. If I hadn't been able to read the conversations happening here, I would never have done that.
 

Auguste_Fivaz

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From BING - Who is Auguste_Fivaz on arstechnica.com?
Auguste_Fivaz is a user on the Ars Technica forums. They have been active for over 12 years and have made several posts in various threads. For example, they started a poll on the forum suggesting that August 22nd should be made into a national holiday1. They also shared a personal story about their mother-in-law, actress Mary Carver, in a discussion about spiders2.

Talk about full disclosure.
 
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Jonathon

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Adding from the help and feedback. Sorry for crossposting your stuff Oddabe19, but I wanted to make sure the Lounge see’s this:



The /civis/ stuff on the robots.txt is new. And goes a long way towards a positive outcome. Nothing will stop someone from scraping if they choose to do so - that is true for the internet as a whole. But this at least is a step, and nominally puts the fora back into that ‘do-not-scrape’ position it’s been in for the last 11 months.
The stuff that's included there are Xenforo UI bits and secondary pages that shouldn't be indexed (like the login or search pages). It does not include thread content (which would require a blanket exclusion for /civis/, or a more general exclude for /civis/threads/; the one there right now just prevents indexing the specific version of the thread page that's used in the article comment iframe).
 
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von Chaps

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Couple thoughts:
1) That only works until someone decides the content is worth enough to spend 5 minutes setting up an account for the bot to scrape with. A login is required to post, that's still a very porous barrier to spammers.
That can be mitigated by policing, behavioural monitoring, a subscription fee, cooling off period, etc. There are many technical solutions.

2) Locking the reading of discussions behind a login requirement is an almost surefire way to completely stop any newcomers to the community. I lurked for years before making an account, then years more before starting to post more regularly. If I hadn't been able to read the conversations happening here, I would never have done that.
That is very true, so what is the answer? Just roll over and take it like a bitch?

If you are saying that it is not possible to run a successful discussion forum without feeding everything to an LLM (for money no less), well then that's really pretty much the end of forums - and likely a lot of other internet based activities. To be clear, those things will still exist but they will be low-value, shit-posting, meme pits full of bots and edge-lords. Valueless, certainly to me.

So be it, it won't be the first time corporate interests have ruined something (and no, I'm not using that word).
 
katespace
katespace
/// OFFICIAL MODERATION NOTICE ///

So, listen. The mods really have no interest in being the language police, but gender-based insults are not where it's at. There are so many other more beautifully crass and colorful ways to speak than to rely on old sexist tropes. Try harder.

von Chaps

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Yep. Copilots response for me was a very quick summation of a pair of events from… checks notes… 15 and 17 years ago.

Yep.

(y) Good job, Copilot. I’m totally the same person now as then!
Y'all don't think they're going to get better at this stuff?

Oh, and the "good" models will get more and more expensive to use until only large corporations can even access them. Expect to lose track of how good they are getting and know that, at that point, they just got really good.
 
The stuff that's included there are Xenforo UI bits and secondary pages that shouldn't be indexed (like the login or search pages). It does not include thread content (which would require a blanket exclusion for /civis/, or a more general exclude for /civis/threads/; the one there right now just prevents indexing the specific version of the thread page that's used in the article comment iframe).
Thanks for the explainer.
 
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TheGnome

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Hap

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Cool, I'm a health plan.

HAP is a Michigan-based, nonprofit health plan that provides health coverage to individuals, companies, and organizations. With over 60 years of experience, HAP partners with doctors, employers, and community groups to enhance overall health and well-being.
 

Ananke

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Me.

I misread the part number and ordered some 92mm fans (nf-a9x-14) instead of the 140mm parts I intended (nf-a14-pwm)

Clearly I saw the “14” and just checked out (pun intended) on whether it was the correct 14.

Grumble. I’m not going to be able to assemble stuff this weekend after all
 

helel ben shachar

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snotnose

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My printer quit printing. It makes all the right moves and noises for a minute or so, then spits out a blank page. I've tried test pages, cleaning the nozzles, and everything else in the menu. No errors, no apparent problem, just blank pages at the end.

What takes it from an annoyance to a TTPMO is I just bought 3 sets of ink cartridges a few months back, 2 are unopened, and I doubt I can return them (they were a set).

sigh.
 
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JimCampbell

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She lost her pension completely during the bankruptcy
This shit happens in the UK, too. I have no idea why pension funds aren’t protected from bankruptcy/creditor claims. That shit isn’t a company asset that creditors should be able to lay claim to, and it isn’t a pile of cash venture capitalists should be able to raid or raise finance off.
 
My CoPilot search shows I was a Lead Elf in Sekrit Santa. I wish I used a more anonymous handle. Too late now.
CoPilot figured out I like space stuff, other poking returned nonsense.

Oh, and apparently CoPilot thinks I have "enigmatic allure" - that was a pretty common phrase in my followup poking.
 
Client decided to have their facilities team do the structured wiring in their new office spaces. And they managed to fuck it entirely up. Stranded Ethernet cable in the walls, homemade solid wire patch cables everywhere, and each person involved used their own colour code.

And of course it’s my fault nothing works and they are in shambles.
Point out that all of the ethernet needs to come out because it violates the fire code. (I'm assuming it's not stranded riser/plenum grade). So you get to bill them for starting from scratch.
 
Ok, the Copilot thing is fun.

Me: Who is the most infamous forum member on Ars Technica?

Copilot: Ars Technica’s forums have a rich history with many memorable members, but pinpointing the “most infamous” one is subjective and can vary depending on who you ask. The forums have seen their share of colorful characters and heated debates over the years.

One notable figure often mentioned in discussions about forum notoriety is a user known as “Caesar.” He was one of the early members and left a lasting impression on the community1. However, the term “infamous” can mean different things to different people, so other members might have their own candidates for this title.

 

SandyTech

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Point out that all of the ethernet needs to come out because it violates the fire code. (I'm assuming it's not stranded riser/plenum grade). So you get to bill them for starting from scratch.
It's all in deadspace or conduit so technically it doesn't need to be plenum rated just riser rated. But nearly everything we run is CMP because it's just easier to keep one class of cable around and the cost delta between CMP and CMR is not enough to justify the logistical (and potential legal) headaches of mixing up CMP and CMR.

Even if it were the right cabling it'd all have to come out anyway because nothing they did is code compliant and I'm shocked they got sign off for their temp CO with the state everything is in.
 

Happysin

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I figured "infamous" was an easy question for any human who knew the history here. Even Leafycaust and Nivenbro are minor-league compared to you know who. (And Nivenbro is more folk-hero than infamous, even if forum posts got G-men showing up at his door really fast). The fact that Caesar is "infamous" made me actually laugh out loud.