You only "need" rule-benders when the organization has too many poorly-considered rules that block people from doing things that actually help the whole team. Which is why managers who don't understand the work and enforce idiotic processes end up creating dysfunctional work environments where only assholes get anything done.Problem is.. you kind of NEED some of these people in order to advance the goals of a company/science/etc..
Also, narcissists are more likely to institute useless rules due to their insecurities. Narcissistic traits are how you get managers clamoring for RTO because they can't look over employee shoulders (setting aside other RTO reasons)You only "need" rule-benders when they organization has too many poorly-considered rules that block people from doing things that actually help the whole team. Which is why managers who don't understand the work and enforce idiotic processes end up creating dysfunctional work environments where only assholes get anything done.
Good processes that are suitable for the work and the team make everyone more productive by minimizing the time they spend figuring out who should do what or fixing things that weren't done right the first time.
Very little is outright fabrication. A lot is chock full of assumptions and interpretation that may be misleading, either intentionally or unintentionally. A good executive asks a ton of questions to get to the bottom of just how much those assumptions and generous interpretations are the report author's and how much is real info. It's not just narcissists, everyone in a business brings their desires, biases and ambitions to the table in their work product.So how much corporate data is just flat out fabricated by narcissists looking for advancement?
I've long heard rumors of a lot of corporate data being massaged or outright fabricated. Boss says they want data before they make a decision, so you just write up a BS or half-BS report. They look at it for five minutes and make a decision. On to the next thing.
We don't have any way to verify one way or another.
Agreed.As an engineering leader, I look at those follower/bender lists and definitely lean toward rule breakers in hiring. The follower phrases make me think of someone set in their ways and not innovative or responsive enough. But I get that the needs of every function are not the same.
I tend to talk with salaried engineers about working smarter not harder, in the sense that an extra hour of work for an accountant means so-many more entries or reconciliations while an extra hour of engineering may or may not be productive. We try to focus more on outcomes than efforts.
I think tactical communication is the kind concerned with things like breaching or bypassing a defensive phone-tree line in order to reach a specific target with purchasing authority; while strategic communication is the kind you do indiscriminately to entire population centers at a time.
Because using cold war era doctrine to understand the difference between sales and advertising couldn't possibly produce conceptually confused results, could it?
I'm guessing it's a polite way of saying "manipulative." See also Grima Wormtongue and Stephen Miller.I'm not really sure what "tactical" communication is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want it.
I've been thinking about this a bit. While it wouldn't affect whether I apply for a job, when I fill out the application, I'm going to use their language to reflect my skills and strengths.Are people really that specific about what jobs they apply to? I just look at the job title and duties and Google the company. I can't imagine deciding to apply or not apply to a job based on whether or not it said I need to be an innovative self-starting out-of the box team player - that's just packing peanuts in the job listing.
I get what you're saying and my running assumption has been similar. Less outright fabrication and more a lot of massaging.Very little is outright fabrication. A lot is chock full of assumptions and interpretation that may be misleading, either intentionally or unintentionally. A good executive asks a ton of questions to get to the bottom of just how much those assumptions and generous interpretations are the report author's and how much is real info. It's not just narcissists, everyone in a business brings their desires, biases and ambitions to the table in their work product.
The reason for the above is that measuring stuff is really really difficult and you can't operate a business just changing one variable at a time. People have to give their input on what they think is causing X with imperfect data and so they insert themselves into the interpretation of the data. Leaders need to take that into account and the level of reliability of the data when understanding the risk of decisions based on that data. With any level of risk there's always the potential to get it wrong too.
Yep, this is me. I've given up on self-promotion and just pay for professional help finding jobs.I've noticed that I am wholly incompatible with modern hiring practices. I absolutely detest the idea of lying about myself or exaggerating my skills or knowledge and as such I wholly refuse to do that. Alas, no one these days wants an employee who is actually honest about themselves. If anything, it seems to me like people think you're hiding something, like e.g. you're secretly an axe murderer, if you don't lie and exaggerate.
That's why there are so many "entry-level positions" that require 3-7 years of experience.
My experience is that recruiters don't care. They filled the role, then they wipe their hands clean. And it will be 6 to 12 months before someone realizes they hired the wrong person.Please make this article a mandatory read for recruiters... Especially for tech related jobs.
I once got shouted at by an engineer because he claimed I broke rules and yet got paid a lot more than he did. I said to him "The extra pay is for my responsibility in knowing when to break rules, and my risk of getting fired if I make a mistake."The best candidates know which rules to bend and which to respect, and which to ask for permission to bend vs doing the thing and asking for forgiveness later. It's a very delicate balance in the real world.. you don't want an exclusive bunch of formality and rules bound people or you'll usually not move fast enough, but you don't want an exclusive set of self-important rule breakers to ruin culture, go too far, or cross certain ethical lines.
Especially when that filler tends to interfere with search queries.I would really prefer if job postings stopped including all the useless filler.
"Innovative", "team player", "fast paced", whatever whatever. Not useful. It's all telling not showing.
Also, narcissists are more likely to institute useless rules due to their insecurities. Narcissistic traits are how you get managers clamoring for RTO because they can't look over employee shoulders (setting aside other RTO reasons)
Narcissistic traits are not good for anyone, ever. They're only good for the narcissists.
We only think we need "rule benders" because the rule benders in power have pushed that narrative. They're not bending the rules for collective benefit. They're bending the rules for themselves and their friends.
I really don't understand what's hard to grasp about this and I'm astonished at the narcissistic apologism in this thread. The "rule bender" narrative is the one endlessly pushed by exploitative billionaires. It's the shit your read on Forbes or Business Insider. It's nonsense. No one bends the rules and freely shares the profits with everyone. What kind of Robin Hood fantasy is that??
Frankly, I think it's a sign folks need to look inward. If you find yourself saying "we need a balance of these traits," you really, honestly might want to see a therapist.
That's not what it means. A rule follower is just someone who tends to follow the rules of the workplace, it has nothing to do with not being responsive or being set in their ways -- you're mixing up completely unrelated things here.As an engineering leader, I look at those follower/bender lists and definitely lean toward rule breakers in hiring. The follower phrases make me think of someone set in their ways and not innovative or responsive enough.
Interviewer: So, why do you want to work here?I actually asked an HR person about this once, and they told me it was "a way of separating the wheat from the chaff". I guess by ensuring the wheat doesn't bother to apply.
Anyway, it's studies like these that made me transition from 'choosing one words carefully' to 'saying whatever I want' long ago. Because it's seemingly impossible to deduce what words are going to set off what 'red flags' to whom.
"What would you say is your worst quality??"
"That I haven't concocted an answer to this question that doesn't sound like complete horseshit, even though I've been asked it roughly 77 times"
It comes in matte black, has a superfluous Picatinny rail, and a crenelated strike bezel for enhanced self-defense.I'm not really sure what "tactical" communication is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want it.
Ah, clearly I'm hitting it out of the park in the reading comprehension department today. You're quite right; thank you.They don't assume that. The second-to-last paragraph says "it is unclear whether this is intentional."
Gah. Between that and @Pluvia Arenae correctly noting that I overlooked a bit towards the end of the article, I'm really doing well today with the reads-and-understands-language skillset.
Honestly, I think it all stems from the general guidance to make one's job and resume sound impressive by using action words and fluffing everything. Except that now everyone's job and resume sounds equally impressive and ridiculous.
If you really want to see ridiculous look no further than software development related roles. Junior devs needing 10 years of experience and need to be experts in the entire dev stack as if they are going to build an enterprise application by themselves.
And then with resumes, "Instrumental in driving process improvement and cost reduction efforts for the enterprise accounting and finance departments" = fixed some formulas in someone else's Excel model.
Perhaps oddly, I've never found a job through responding to a job ad or through a recruiter. Every job I've had has come from knowing someone and being referred.
EDIT: If you want to find narcissists, LinkedIn is the place. I haven't been on in years, but I remember my feed being filled will people writing novels about how they found a new "opportunity" and look forward to their next career stage and appreciate everyone they've worked with for the last 3 months. I can almost promise they worked harder writing that post to pat themselves on the back looking for attention than they did at their previous job.
Also, narcissists are more likely to institute useless rules due to their insecurities. Narcissistic traits are how you get managers clamoring for RTO because they can't look over employee shoulders (setting aside other RTO reasons)
Narcissistic traits are not good for anyone, ever. They're only good for the narcissists.
We only think we need "rule benders" because the rule benders in power have pushed that narrative. They're not bending the rules for collective benefit. They're bending the rules for themselves and their friends.
I really don't understand what's hard to grasp about this and I'm astonished at the narcissistic apologism in this thread. The "rule bender" narrative is the one endlessly pushed by exploitative billionaires. It's the shit your read on Forbes or Business Insider. It's nonsense. No one bends the rules and freely shares the profits with everyone. What kind of Robin Hood fantasy is that??
Frankly, I think it's a sign folks need to look inward. If you find yourself saying "we need a balance of these traits," you really, honestly might want to see a therapist.
Yep, this is me. I've given up on self-promotion and just pay for professional help finding jobs.
I'd love to know about team and product history and scope too. Is this a new team taking over an old project? An old team replacing a departure or expanding to take on a new project?I would really prefer if job postings stopped including all the useless filler.
"Innovative", "team player", "fast paced", whatever whatever. Not useful. It's all telling not showing.
What I want to know is like
- company mission (succinctly!)
- company size
- team size
- tech stack
- responsibilities (eg: backend work, frontend work, sales in the tristate area, whatever)
Something like "We’re passionate about empowering people to create beautiful and powerful images, videos, and apps, and transform how companies interact with customers across every screen." isn't really that useful, and has a lot more words than it has meaning.
Fair question. Honestly, I can just speak to the places I've worked. I'm a fairly senior exec at an IT globomegacorp, I spend a lot of my time looking at other people's work product to inform the direction for the part of the business that I am responsible for. Clearly, I haven't done an industry wide study.I get what you're saying and my running assumption has been similar. Less outright fabrication and more a lot of massaging.
But...how do we know? Like, are there studies on this? How would the studies tell? Because if not then it seems like hopium. It seems like, "oh well no way THAT could happen!" Just assuming it doesn't happen because it would be so incredulous if real. I really think we have a lot of baked in assumptions about corporate norms and we don't really challenge them enough. We assume it's the way it is for good reasons. That may or may not be the case.
And using words like "good executive"...well, a lot of them are not good at all, so...
Entry level does not mean beginner.That's why there are so many "entry-level positions" that require 3-7 years of experience.
The author establishes that certain verbiage attracts narcissistic candidates and that a greater than average number of narcissistic employees behave unethically. But narcissism is not the only factor that influences ethical behaviour, and it does not follow that the verbiage attracts candidates who will behave unethically.However, they may unknowingly attract and select narcissistic candidates whose goals and ethics might not align with a company’s values or long-term success. Research shows that narcissistic employees are more likely to behave unethically, potentially leading to legal consequences.
Agreed.Are people really that specific about what jobs they apply to? I just look at the job title and duties and Google the company. I can't imagine deciding to apply or not apply to a job based on whether or not it said I need to be an innovative self-starting out-of the box team player - that's just packing peanuts in the job listing.
I hate the "entry level but requires experience" thing too, but I think that's not a case of the job posting being written differently from what they want. Those companies just don't actually want entry-level employees. In general there's way less willingness to train anyone than there was in the past; I'm guessing that the other commenter who said "entry-level doesn't mean beginner" might honestly not know that it ever did, because so many people now haven't ever lived in a time when it was a meaningful category.Sure.TFA said:Companies write job postings carefully in hopes of attracting the ideal candidate.
That's why there are so many "entry-level positions" that require 3-7 years of experience.
It’s almost like civil discourse is still sometimes a thingHoly moley--I agree with you on something!
The trick is finding those who can work free of group-think and assumptions, while staying within legitimate boundaries, including those pesky ones like laws, ethics, brand considerations, etc.
Look, the description probably used AI to add in the flowery language, and you're going to need it to get rid of it for the succinct summary. In the end the billionaires have sold services to both sides to train their systems that will reduce the number of jobs in the first place. Isn't it great!? /sI would really prefer if job postings stopped including all the useless filler.
"Innovative", "team player", "fast paced", whatever whatever. Not useful. It's all telling not showing.
What I want to know is like
- company mission (succinctly!)
- company size
- team size
- tech stack
- responsibilities (eg: backend work, frontend work, sales in the tristate area, whatever)
Something like "We’re passionate about empowering people to create beautiful and powerful images, videos, and apps, and transform how companies interact with customers across every screen." isn't really that useful, and has a lot more words than it has meaning.
Language is predominantly tactical/manipulative - emotion or statistics, etc.I'm not really sure what "tactical" communication is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want it.
"Article" and "comment" are a weird pair of words for them to get confused for each other.I bet you're fun at parties.
Totally agree, but having worked for a German company, you can also see the inverse. Had a narcissistic VP who made a big show of false-humility since the company did not overtly reward American-Style arrogant self-promotion. When asked about how he got to his position he said "I just put my head down and did my work, and someone noticed", which was 100% horse-shit and everyone else knew it. He had to have promoted himself to connected people, because the entire company ran on the patronage system, where all promotions beyond a certain point were more political than anything else, and you needed a strong, well-connected advocate to even be in the running.I've always said that it feels like the kinds of people most likely to get hired for most jobs aren't the kinds of people you really want working those jobs. Just because you're good at seeming confident and able to powerfully self-promote doesn't mean you'll be either good at the day-to-day responsibilities of your job or good at working well with others.
But our culture seems to value that kind of self-promotional confidence as a virtue in itself, so we end up here.