GM will build F1 powertrains in 2028 as long as F1 lets Andretti in

An engine program should answer questions about General Motors' commitment to F1.

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[squawkingVFR]

Back in the day, I was excited about Haas joining as a US-based constructor. That interest in me died off pretty quickly, especially after the Mazespin nonsense. This all-American entry into a sport that I've loved for multiple decades has me so excited. I have also seen the politics of this sport over the years and it gets ugly. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail and we see the Andretti name back in F1.

 

[mobby_6kl]

Now that's going to be fascinating. Is pushrod V6 going to be a first for F1?

 

[d3x7r0]

I believe Andretti had already agreed for a deal with Renault/Alpine to supply engines in the interim. Hence why Alpine seemed to be, for a while at least, the only ally they had in the Paddock.

Here's the reuters article on the topic.

 

[DistinctivelyCanuck]

There's something I don't understand about this.

F1 is huge pretty much everywhere except the US: is the sales and marketing theory that getting Andretti involved (and Cadillac) is to push F1 visibility in the US?

But the inverse is also something that befuddles me: what's the 'gain' for GM and Cadillac in this? is GM and Cadillac really going to gain substantially from a sales and marketing perspective in the rest of the world? Where in the world does a Cadillac branded F1 car really make a sales impact? not in Europe: not in the Middle East or Asia. Certainly not in China.

So what justifies this massive expenditure?

 

[Mechjaz]

This is exciting! I'm literally wearing a Cadillac Racing LMP(2? I forget) shirt right now. Sometime around the CTS-V Cadillac got interesting for the first time in my life, and I've loved seeing them put their money where their mouth is by actually racing, competing, and winning.

I'm not a super hardcore fan that follows a lot of racing closely, but I do love it and would love to see Cadillac make the jump into F1. I'll keep saving my pennies for a CT4 Blackwing

Edit: yeeeeah notcoffeetable above cuts to the heart of why it's safer to be a dilettante or fairweather fan :/

 

[Dr Gitlin]

when the best US drivers have a harder time getting in because of the bias in super license points systems,

If the "best US driver" could manage to have finished better than 10th in Indycar this year or last year he'd have a super license. There's lots to blame F1 about but Colton Herta getting paid $10 million a year to be mediocre is not one of them. Sorry.

 

[notcoffeetable]

If the "best US driver" could manage to have finished better than 10th in Indycar this year or last year he'd have a super license. There's lots to blame F1 about but Colton Herta getting paid $10 million a year to be mediocre is not one of them. Sorry.

I'm not talking about Colton Herta, I'm talking about the points distribution. It's heavily skewed towards the F3-F2 pipeline.

 

[Numfuddle]

I'm not talking about Colton Herta, I'm talking about the points distribution. It's heavily skewed towards the F3-F2 pipeline.
View attachment 67437

and yet there are several indy drivers that have enough super license points to qualify, e.g. O'Ward

 

[Slik]

I love the "sport" of F1, but hate the business. That goes for Liberty Media and all their predecessors. Races in Miami and Vegas? They are (or will be) shit shows, that are the most expensive venues in the world of F1 right now.

Racing is taking a 2nd seat to "the show", and I despise that. It's always been a factor, but it's just getting to be too much.

Oh, good luck to Cadillac & Co, but I doubt it will happen.

 

[Reaperman2]

I live in Vegas, which is basically shut down this week for the F1 race, and has been a disaster area of pointless, expensive, SLOW construction for the past few months in preparation. I literally can't go to work this week, and my commute time was tripled the past 3 months.

Fuck F1, and the billionaires profiting off of the massive funneling of taxpayer dollars spent to watch cars go round and round.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

I'm not talking about Colton Herta, I'm talking about the points distribution. It's heavily skewed towards the F3-F2 pipeline.
View attachment 67437

Yeah, that's a fairer complaint.

 

[Doctor Nuke]

Having GM come into F1 like this is a huge win for F1, and it will be for GM if they can get the engine right the first season.

I hate how one of the biggest names in racing in North America is being stone walled trying to get into F1. Bernie Ecclestone had been trying to, and Liberty Media when they took over said that one market they were looking to expand heavily into was the North American market. It makes me start to wonder what axe there is to grind between F1 and Andretti other than money. They weren't like this when Haas tried to come in even though the anti-dilution fee was heavily at the forefront of any discussions but they got in anyways.

 

[gokart mozart]

There's something I don't understand about this.

F1 is huge pretty much everywhere except the US: is the sales and marketing theory that getting Andretti involved (and Cadillac) is to push F1 visibility in the US?

But the inverse is also something that befuddles me: what's the 'gain' for GM and Cadillac in this? is GM and Cadillac really going to gain substantially from a sales and marketing perspective in the rest of the world? Where in the world does a Cadillac branded F1 car really make a sales impact? not in Europe: not in the Middle East or Asia. Certainly not in China.

So what justifies this massive expenditure?

The sport’s growing popularity in the US due to the Netflix show. They may be hoping to the boost the brand’s image with millennials and zoomers that may soon be able to afford a Caddy.

 

[Numfuddle]

The sport’s growing popularity in the US due to the Netflix show. They may be hoping to the boost the brand’s image with millennials and zoomers that may soon be able to afford a Caddy.

According to FOM's data US is the fastest growing fan base hence the three US based races.

 

[irnoob]

Sure keep out the Americans and let the rich Europeans have their F1 pure. F1 folks have always had that superior behavior. Why do you think Ford back in the 1960s went against the Europeans.

I just can't see why F1 is so popular. The pole sitter gets to win what 90 percent of the time. Sure is interesting racing. Give me 24 hour sports car racing anytime.

Watching the quals is more exciting than watching the actual race.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

My favorite thing about F1 is that it’s minimally American (outside of the dreadful two American races anyway). No beer koozies or camo shorts. If F1 turns into Indycar, I’m out.

Also why does GM still have multiple brands? Just merge them all into Chevrolet already.

So your favorite thing about F1 is that instead being full of American trash, it's full of Euro trash?

 

[Average Liberal Slatie]

I live in Vegas, which is basically shut down this week for the F1 race, and has been a disaster area of pointless, expensive, SLOW construction for the past few months in preparation.

We just had this the past summer in Chicago with the idiotic NASCAR race that the previous Mayor insisted that would be good for the city and the economy. They shut the whole of downtown for a summer weekend and for what? A race that didn't do jack for the city except frustrate everyone who lives here.

Hell, the Taylor Swift concert was a bigger economic boost than NASCAR.

 

[OneBigIsland]

Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, and Red Bull Powertrains (which took over Honda's engine program last year). Audi is entering as a powertrain constructor in 2026, and Honda is coming back that same year to power Aston Martin, with the Red Bull engine being rebadged as a Ford then, too.

I'm looking forward to the Samsung-TaTa-OscarMeyer-SunnyDelight F1 entry running a rebadged Yugo engine.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

They weren't like this when Haas tried to come in even though the anti-dilution fee was heavily at the forefront of any discussions but they got in anyways.

Haas joined in 2014, the anti-dilution fee only got introduced in 2020.

 

[HandymanHandy]

Pretty weird they aren't committing from 2026 if they are so serious about it.

 

[Honeybog]

There's something I don't understand about this.

F1 is huge pretty much everywhere except the US: is the sales and marketing theory that getting Andretti involved (and Cadillac) is to push F1 visibility in the US?

But the inverse is also something that befuddles me: what's the 'gain' for GM and Cadillac in this? is GM and Cadillac really going to gain substantially from a sales and marketing perspective in the rest of the world? Where in the world does a Cadillac branded F1 car really make a sales impact? not in Europe: not in the Middle East or Asia. Certainly not in China.

So what justifies this massive expenditure?

Cadillac has been making some pretty amazing cars for a while now. Their raison d’être is basically “what if Corvette, but luxury?” They should absolutely be competing in the same market as BMW and AMG Benzes, which is to say they should be to not-ze-Germans performance luxury what Lexus is to not-ze-Germans reliable luxury. Instead their market is basically “Buick, but expensive” and “Lincoln, but with evidence that they physically still exist” (plus making SUVs for people too gauche for the Brits or Germans).

They desperately, desperately need to find a way to expand into a younger demographic. If Corvettes are for old guys who lusted after them as children, then Cadillacs for people who can’t even remember childhood.

 

[Doctor Nuke]

Haas joined in 2014, the anti-dilution fee only got introduced in 2020.

2016 actually was their first year. They bought up the remains of Marussia in 2014 when they closed their doors.

 

[momurdamatt]

This whole ordeal is a farce. Really hard to take F1 seriously as the "pinnacle" of motorsport when the best US drivers have a harder time getting in because of the bias in super license points systems, and a competent American manufacturer produces a bid that meets all requirements but is given the run around. Kick out Haas, they are an embarrassment, let the adults race.

The best US drivers? Like who? There are exactly 0 American drivers at the moment capable of driving an f1 car competitively.
None. Name a single one. Have you been paying attention?

 

[stevegula]

This whole ordeal is a farce. Really hard to take F1 seriously as the "pinnacle" of motorsport when the best US drivers have a harder time getting in because of the bias in super license points systems, and a competent American manufacturer produces a bid that meets all requirements but is given the run around. Kick out Haas, they are an embarrassment, let the adults race.

This kind of sounds like someone arguing that the US Mens League Soccer is just as good any top tier Euro league.

 

[ChefJeff789]

I've enjoyed F1 for a while, but since the DtS era started it's only gone downhill. This year has been especially embarrassing. The races all feel like a circus with the inconsistent application of random, severe penalties, heat-stroked drivers, bizarre race safety snafus, and now I hear the FIA didn't understand that the desert can get cold at night? (Vegas GP). It's just too much nonsense, not enough racing. I sure hope Andretti and Cadillac actually know what they're getting themselves into.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

Pretty weird they aren't committing from 2026 if they are so serious about it.

That timeline is just too tight to have any reasonable chance of success.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

I've enjoyed F1 for a while, but since the DtS era started it's only gone downhill. This year has been especially embarrassing. The races all feel like a circus with the inconsistent application of random, severe penalties, heat-stroked drivers, bizarre race safety snafus, and now I hear the FIA didn't understand that the desert can get cold at night? (Vegas GP). It's just too much nonsense, not enough racing. I sure hope Andretti and Cadillac actually know what they're getting themselves into.

Don't conflate the FIA and Liberty. This Las Vegas race is all on Liberty.

 

[mbmcavoy]

The best US drivers? Like who? There are exactly 0 American drivers at the moment capable of driving an f1 car competitively.
None. Name a single one. Have you been paying attention?

"Competitively" is a subjective term, of course. Logan Sargeant is an American driver currently driving in F1 for Williams. While he is certainly not fighting for the lead, and I don't have high expectations, he has earned a point in his rookie year, so that is something.

(George Russel had zero points in 2019, and Esteban Ocon had zero points in 2016. Both of these drivers have since shown they deserve their places as F1 drivers.)

 

[ShortOrder]

I believe Andretti had already agreed for a deal with Renault/Alpine to supply engines in the interim. Hence why Alpine seemed to be, for a while at least, the only ally they had in the Paddock.

Here's the reuters article on the topic.

They had a deal. Emphasis on had. It's since expired https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1037942/1/fresh-blow-andretti-s-f1-plans-renault-engine-option-expires

 

[Uncivil Servant]

There's something I don't understand about this.

F1 is huge pretty much everywhere except the US: is the sales and marketing theory that getting Andretti involved (and Cadillac) is to push F1 visibility in the US?

But the inverse is also something that befuddles me: what's the 'gain' for GM and Cadillac in this? is GM and Cadillac really going to gain substantially from a sales and marketing perspective in the rest of the world? Where in the world does a Cadillac branded F1 car really make a sales impact? not in Europe: not in the Middle East or Asia. Certainly not in China.

So what justifies this massive expenditure?

GM also has Cadillac branding on their hypercars in IMSA and WEC. Cadillac as a brand is competitive with Mercedes. And if Ford is going to be powering Red Bull, GM and the sport as a whole will gain from that rivalry, because those are two companies that can always afford to try to outspend each other.

All of these factors play a role. Additionally, while GM may be paying for R&D, I'm pretty sure Andretti as a team pay them for the engines, and other teams may also become engine customers.

 

[Uncivil Servant]

If the "best US driver" could manage to have finished better than 10th in Indycar this year or last year he'd have a super license. There's lots to blame F1 about but Colton Herta getting paid $10 million a year to be mediocre is not one of them. Sorry.

Also, one can compare Romain "whoopsie" Grosjean's performance in F1 vs Indycar...

 

[tkulla]

Andretti must be admitted into F1. They are more than qualified and clearly make the sport better, especially with Cadillac behind them. And I believe Liberty knows they must approve their entry. The other teams can whine all they want but they'll each get $20million and work hard to stay ahead of a brand new team. If they can't then too bad. F1 is supposed to be Darwinian at its core.

If Andretti is not admitted to F1 because of complaints of existing teams, I will stop watching F1. And I've watched every race since 1989.

 

[pacify]

Pretty weird they aren't committing from 2026 if they are so serious about it.

The deadline for 2026 had lapsed
Although your questioning is valid, they (GM) let two more deadlines lapse (the re-extended 2026 deadline and the 2027 deadline that lapsed this May) all the while waxing poetic about commitment until they basically got goaded into an 'Andretti or nothing' stance (thanks to Vowles) and then finally an actual constructor commitment (I mean, credit goes to all the team principles and FOM on that one becasue the FIA sure didn't look into that one too hard). Until this actual PU commitment, detractors could readily and easily make the argument that INEOS just by virtue of owning a third of Mercedes was actually contributing something to F1.
All that's left is the Anti-Dilution fee and other nuts and bolts like interim engine supply. Most likely with the AD fee, GM/Andretti will 1000% pay more than $200Million but it'll be labelled as an "undisclosed fee" or they could agree to forfeit prize payouts for X years to either skip the AD fee or just pay the absolute steal of an AD fee then possibly be grandfathered into the next Concorde Agreement.
I also can't imagine Alpine saying no to providing an engine, with two green lights from FOM and FIA, a truckload of cash backing into Viry, a potential forced commitment (could be 50/50 as Honda is entering too and aren't exactly inexperienced), and free extra data collection from another chasis.

Nonetheless glad we're here, good luck to GM and Andretti.
Don't fuck it up, Americans are incredibly nationalistic, but they also love winners.

 

[tkulla]

If the "best US driver" could manage to have finished better than 10th in Indycar this year or last year he'd have a super license. There's lots to blame F1 about but Colton Herta getting paid $10 million a year to be mediocre is not one of them. Sorry.

A bit OT but I would LOVE to see Max in Indycar. Put him in a Penske, Ganassi, Andretti, or McLaren and see how well he does. Unlike in F1 I don't think it's a given that he would win the championship (unlike in F1). But it would be awfully fun to watch!