EU accuses Google and Apple of stifling competition under Digital Markets Act
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Yeah AI has made my coworkers produce 100x more code with 1/100th the quality. It's really great to review a bunch of non-functional sludge!
What an incredible advancement!
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I think you're working with incorrect information. The requirements of the DMA have been in the works for years (and both Apple and Google had been given a chance to offer input). The specific technical mandate towards Apple is the result of feedback from actual companies and developers building for Apple/Google platforms.
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By that definition, Meta is Irish and Apple is Bermudan and not American.
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It's not just that. By threatening the EU and starting a trade war, he's also lost any leverage usa had.
There's no reason for the EU to cut these firms any slack anymore, given they are beholden to a rogue nation, one that has already trashed any methods of soft power it had to pressure the EU.
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This is true. Though also worth noting: Huawei actually got busted.
And it seems this was about two MEPs, not Commissioners.
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This kind of approach would only lead to even further market consolidation as old brands abuse their grandfathered perks to gain an even bigger advantage over competitors, in addition to their vastly greater financial reserves that already allow unfair practices such as price manipulation (or flat out buying any innovators that might threaten one's position).
A few megacorporations dominating the market is already a big enough issue as it is. New companies having a hard time gaining a foothold is an even bigger one, especially in the digital world where convenience causes a "quasi-captured audience" that would hesitate to create and migrate to yet another new user account (see e.g. the hesitation to move on even from Twitter).
Also: imagine the loopholes and run on old brands this would create as newer companies would try to merge with old businesses for the exclusive purpose of acquiring their grandfather bonus.
"Google is rebranding to Kongo Gumi Digital!"
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I’d honestly like to see the EU create an open market for Android to replace Play Services. Something government run, by the people, for the people.
Moving away from US control of tech is a good thing at this point.
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That would be the most idiotic way of ending the US dominance over the tech market ever, especially considering how any company can use AOSP and build an Android phone and stick a replacement Google APIs on top, and get a huge part of the cake, which probably would spread to the rest of the world.
Also many of you kind of forget the EU has A LOT more consumers than the great USA...
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First EU company to receive that status is Amsterdam based Booking.
https://digital-markets-act.ec.euro...nd-opens-market-investigation-x-2024-05-13_en
Current list of gatekeepers:
Source: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en
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This is what international standards are for, not legislation. EU could mandate that that all wireless devices must meet whatever Bluetooth standard they like. They can mandate availability of an international file transfer protocol. The EU should be pushing international standards, or failing that, EU standards.
Your Airpods example is telling - those capabilities are due to a unique chip Apple developed and embeds in them. Should Apple be required to sell those chips to competitors? Standards are the way, not legislation (DMA) for crafting company by company bandaids for competition. The EU was well within their rights to mandate that portable devices adhere to at least USB C data transfer protocols, that is an international standard. It's clear and the implementation is obvious. Same idea should apply here to your examples of wireless accessories and file transfer.
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Agreed. This would address real, actual problems, like equal pay for equal work for men and women. It doesn't matter when a company was founded to enforce this. Basic fairness.
From this thread, it seems that people outside the EU are blissfully unaware of just how badly the EC screwed up with the GDPR and the first part of the DMA. Literally no-one demanded to have dedicated porn apps, because having to use a web browser for porn is somehow anticompetitive.
The only thing the GDPR does is encourage end users to consent to data tracking. The real problem - reduction of tracking - got lost in the politics.
Asking regulators for solutions that actually work is not too much to ask, IMHO.
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These moves against Apple and Google feels like a classic case of overreach—well-intentioned, perhaps, but missing the bigger picture. They think they’re taming giants, ensuring fairness with the DMA’s stick. Fine. But really should step carefully. These companies aren’t just cash cows to milk; they’re engines of progress, and Europe’s part of that ride—$94 billion from Apple alone last year, Google’s EMEA haul in the tens of billions. Pushing too hard with these threats of fines and/or rules that choke their models, and they won’t leave—they’re too hooked on the market—but they may just dial back to the detriment of the EU customers. Less sparkle in iOS, a dumber Google Search, innovation quietly shifting to friendlier shores. EU could win the battle and lose the war, stuck with a tech landscape that’s compliant but stale. Smart power knows when to nudge, not shove.
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Funny how when the FBI in the US demands a backdoor in an OS to break encryption, this is rightfully criticised, but when the French and UK governments try the same, criticism gets downvoted...
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I think the results speak for themselves.
1) GDPR led to endless cookie banner pop-ups in websites. I suspect most people don't even read them properly; they just click on "accept all" to dismiss them as quickly as possible so they can continue with their task.
2) Regulating Windows in the past meant that Microsoft had no incentive to fix the underlying issues that subsequently led to Crowdstrike decades later. It's probably not fair to blame the government for this, but it's also a reminder of how even seemingly well-meaning legislation can lead to unintended consequences down the road.
3) Considering what apps are currently not allowed in the iOS App Store (eg: gambling, adult content, vape-related, just to name a few), it stands to reason that these are also the apps that will be hosted outside of the App Store. I dare someone from the EU commission openly endorse these apps as an example of why Apple needs to allow sideloading and open up the App Store. It's one thing to be browsing pornography (more people do it than they would dare to admit); it's another to make it a hill you are prepared to die on.
That's the nuance I am not seeing in this discussion. That there are legitimate benefits to a curated App Store approach, users may not necessarily be better off (we may just be trading one bundle of compromises for another), and the EU still refuses the admit the ugly part out loud - that this is a violation of Apple's property rights, however justified they may feel they are in this regard.
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That would be my dream scenario. Android is open source. Let God-king Mango order Google to leave the EU and let another player create a substitute for google play services which were compliant with EU law.
Imagine having a phone with privacy built in.
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Reminder: the banners aren't required if the website isn't trying to track you.
That said a lot of banners have a "accept essential only". Those who make it hard to accept only the essential cookies are probably breaking the law.
And in any case they're a good reminder to open those sites in a private window.
The GDPR also leds for us Europeans to have nicer terms and conditions on WhatsApp and other Meta properties.
The regulation only requires Microsoft to use the same APIs for their own products and for 3rd party products.
There are apps which are hosted outside the app store simply because the publisher doesn't want to pay Apple/Google.
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Laws should apply to behaviors. If you do THIS then you suffer THAT.
Laws should also apply to all companies equally. If they’re not doing anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about.
Adding arbitrary conditions to laws that exclude all EU companies and only target US companies (and 1 Chinese company) are discriminatory.
It’s interesting nobody has been able to answer my question:
Why were over 20 EU companies on the DMA list suddenly excluded leaving only US and Chinese companies. And don’t say it’s because they’re breaking the law. The laws didn’t exist yet.
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They can pull out. The fines are approaching their net profits from business in the EU so at some point there’s no reason to sell iPhones there.
The UK and Switzerland don’t have to abide by the DMA. So Apple can simply move their iPhone business to these countries. Customers can buy private/secure iPhones from here and Apple can make an exception to allow them to access Apps outside their region. Apple can also set up express service centres in these countries for rapid turnaround of anyone having hardware problems.
Unless the EU makes a new law saying it’s illegal to buy an electronic device (like a phone) from another country and bring it home with you.
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Already have one. An iPhone. And the EU seems intent on dismantling that privacy because of entitled companies like Epic, Spotify and Meta demand more access to your devices.
Also, you’re delusional if you think an EU company creates an Android phone and after selling millions of them just decides they don’t want to monetize all that data they have. Or that the “free and open app store” they include only has developers who respect your privacy and don’t embed SDKs into their apps to monetize user habits/data.
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That's not the issue - the custom chip inside AirPods makes AirPods special, yes, and the EU demands that Apple allow for anyone to be able to make their own flavour of "special". This is currently impossible as Apple is gatekeeping APIs required to support advanced Bluetooth accessories, thus making it impossible to create anything similar (or better).
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What is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Enjoy your plagiarism slop.
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Don't worry people. The EU is only really wanting to screw over Trump. And rightly so.
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That is the crux - I want cross platform standards, not a company by company 'open up your widgets' so others can copy. Hold Apple, Google etc to supporting basic cross platform international standards. As I understand it, Apple is not gatekeeping any standard Bluetooth capabilities. They have a proprietary extension using additional hardware and software. That is their business as long as they uphold Bluetooth interface standards for competing accessories.
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Sounds like that'd be the fault of the people, similar to how a lot of folks seem to keep voting against their own best interests when it's election time.
I for one like having the option to refuse my privacy being violated and my data being monetized. And extensions like Consent-o-Matic can even do it for me automatically, based on how I configured my preferences.
Could things be better? Undoubtedly. Like most laws, especially new laws, certain corporations keep doing their very best to try and find loopholes or just don't care about the rules until they get dragged to court. Which should already be enough to make you consider that, yeah, maybe we should push back against this kind of suspicious, exploitative behavior. And more to the point: does this kind of resistance mean we should just give up on making or enforcing laws? Hardly.
GDPR stipulates that it should be as easy to refuse consent as it is to accept, so websites that do not feature a "Reject All" button or even slap you with hundreds of pre-ticked boxes you have to uncheck one by one are a blatant violation of the rules. If you dislike the hassle, report them to your digital privacy watchdog and watch the wheels of justice slowly grind into action.
The alternative to GDPR and cookie popups would be you not given the choice at all, like in the past, and remain a good little passive, transparent user, blindly trusting the megacorps on their road to profit maximization.
Enjoy your slower loading speeds while you're at it, too.
Yeah, the results really do speak for themselves.
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I'll bite.
If the laws didn't exist yet, how could those 20 companies be on this hypothetical list? I feel like there's something missing here.
Since I've read up a little on the regulation, perhaps if you were to supply a few names from these allegedly excluded companies, maybe I can point you to a section in the law that could explain why the status would not apply to them?
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You mean getting Chinese knock offs AirPods running on iPhones using Apple’s API, because it won’t be a European company doing anything in that area.
Will the EU force the AAA gaming companies to support the Apple ecosystems in the name competition, fairness?
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I do hope that Apple making the APIs available will be sufficient. You'll probably get a few high-end devices that will integrate, but most likely won't bother. So far third-party app stores don't seem to be taking the EU by storm.
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The environment in the EU is unfriendly to new startups, some countries have already deindustrialize (UK) and some seem to be in the progress of the deindustrialization (Germany). Why do anything if everything you do needs to be shared for that happy sing-along passing every advancement that you have done around the table for free sometimes before you even finish it.
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It won’t be the EU is looking for a free ride, a third-party builds the tech infrastructure next up for the sake of competition Linux on Apple Silicon……. Why? the appearance of competition.
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You'd rather they take the illegal bribes from Apple then instead.
Dumb and dumber.
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Yeah, you are in the minority and you do realise that there are alternatives. There are alternatives and this just could push them to their rightful place.
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No one is going to do business with the US soon. People may be queueing up at the moment to lick the Orange ring, but once they realise that doing that guarantees nothing, but does put you in the Tangerine Twats sights as someone that can be manipulated for gain, they'll soon back off.
Then all of these companies will be doing business just in America. An America that has basically gutted itself and made sure that it's populace can afford to buy nothing due to the Leopards having eaten the faces of the very customers that these companies were relying on.
Then all of these companies will be doing business just in America. An America that has basically gutted itself and made sure that it's populace can afford to buy nothing due to the Leopards having eaten the faces of the very customers that these companies were relying on.
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Oh yes the existential dread of every start-up: when we make it huge and are raking in a few billion euros a year the EU might forces to play nice with our competitors and we might have to setup an US branch so we can keep ass-fucking the American consumers unbothered.
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