Computer scientist goes silent after FBI raid and purging from University website

Indiana University quietly removes profile of tenured professor and refuses to say why.

See full article...

 

[Coriolanus]

Put it another way, @Aurich, what that bigsnake guy said was essential that all Mainland Chinese are agents of the PRC and none of them should be allowed in.

Would you be okay if someone swapped out the ethnicity/nationality and said something like "Mexicans are all cartel criminals and we shouldn't allow any of them in"? Or some other easily villainized out group?

 

[jtwrenn]

The transparency of this administration is BLINDING!!! /s just in case

 

[gavron]

Someone said something about "begs the question" but as usual doesn't understand the expression doesn't mean "brings up the question."

All this talk does beg the question:

• What did this professor do? That seems to be overlooked so he can be condemned for about 100,000 things he MAY HAVE DONE with no charges, no convictions, no warrants, nothing.
• What did HIS WIFE do? There could be a "conspiracy to commit X" and then "commited X" and were "charged with X" and "convicted of X" and "incarcerated or deported for X". But X is a stupid Musk thing, and the wheels of "justice" don't move in two weeks. Hell it takes a month to get a real hearing... and their lawyer SAYS nothing (no comment as to whether he KNOWS something).

When we (the US) put black pillowcases on people's heads in the public street and disappear them, then orange-soda and his klan have made us worse than the worst regime on earth. Ever.

And we (Arsians) and some media people and some lawyers (Ken White, Larry Tribe, etc.) speak of it, but the political power brokers just bend over and suck that orange dick. We disgust me.

 

[SubWoofer2]

My guess is that they are being accused of acting as Mainland China agents. Which is a totally different thing.

Stand back while we scour everything for anything.

Anything we find will somehow be used against you.

 

[LotusPoet]

We don't have any indictment, evidence, or even an allegation of a crime, and people immediately run to espionage because of his ethnicity.

I went first to "with that job, I'm guessing he's smart, in-demand, and has decent resources, so hopely him and his wife fled the country and are safer now"

2nd) They got disappeared.
3rd) True crime murder/suicide (elsewhere).
4th) Espionage/Spies.
5th) X-files because wtf not at this point.
6th) Ninjas.

 

[DaveSimmons]

So weird to see so many people assume a random professor was targeted by the President, like really? Have ya'll lost THAT much ability to think rationally?

Likely did something sketchy for China, like many people in academia do. Would appreciate some transparency on the matter.

You apparently haven't been reading the news. Trump might not have personally targeted these people but he has transformed the government with 100+ executive orders and unelected co-conspirator Musk into an instrument of oppression against all who fail to bow to his will.

ICE has been disappearing students for protesting, and random people for having tattoos.

The president has personally been targeting individual law firms, networks, journalists, corporations, judges for opposing him, and shaking them down for contributions.

On and on. The new normal is not normal at all.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Conservatives are still here. We just think it’s silly that everyone on here is complaining about this specific instance where almost no facts are known. If the government in this instance went over the line then by all means blast them. Until then all the bellyaching is just that… complaining for the sake of complaining and getting cheered on by the rabid echo chamber.

Im curious what happened in this instance. I’m just not willing to complain about “disappearing people” with no data. I‘ve always thought Arsians prided themselves on facts and data not fearmongering.

It's the Trump government that is failing to provide any information.

Based on everything else they're doing, why are you giving them the benefit of the doubt?

 

[David Mayer]

I am going to only address this from the Chinese American perspective.

China, ethnically speaking, is nowhere near as diverse as the US. I had to learn the hard way, after a shit load of epithets, spitting, and beatings, that when Americans tell me that I don't belong here or that I should go back to China, that's not generally a reference to only citizenship. It's a proxy for race and ethnicity in a way that an insult against Americans wouldn't be.

That kind of behavior makes a hell of a difference between how welcome someone might feel in a community. Especially folks who are historically marginalized and probably experienced some real shit.

So, what started as a rhetorical question to you becomes a serious question: Is this the kind of discourse that you want on Ars?

If I were writing the policy, that poster would be permabanned now. Which is why I am not suitable to write the ars moderation policy. The goal appears to be to have ars be as permissive as possible without risking becoming a NAZI bar or a pool of toxicity. As long as such posts are comparatively rare then the moderation is effective. I don't like having people like that around, but I like it more than a community without the dissent of these people, not the racism of course, I can always do without that, but sometimes they do have insights that I would not otherwise be exposed to.

The trick to getting rid of them is to bait them into breaking the rules, it can make for a rewarding sport, I don't think I've tried it here, but I've seen it done here before.

 

[C.M. Allen]

I went first to "with that job, I'm guessing he's smart, in-demand, and has decent resources, so hopely him and his wife fled the country and are safer now"

2nd) They got disappeared.
3rd) True crime murder/suicide (elsewhere).
4th) Espionage/Spies.
5th) X-files because wtf not at this point.
6th) Ninjas.

#3 is not going to result in a complete purge of all records of them from the University. So that's off the table. 5 and 6 are obviously jokes.

#2 is pretty much the only other option aside from #1, since #4 is just a reason for #1 or #2 (with the other being wrongfully pre-convicted of espionage and imprisoned without trial or even legitimate evidentiary procedure).

 

[IndifferentUniverse]

Getting kind of annoyed at people endlessly going 1984 when there are much more applicable dystopias to reference.View attachment 106364

Nacht und Nebel.

 

[Mechjaz]

Conservatives are still here. We just think it’s silly that everyone on here is complaining about this specific instance where almost no facts are known. If the government in this instance went over the line then by all means blast them. Until then all the bellyaching is just that… complaining for the sake of complaining and getting cheered on by the rabid echo chamber.

Im curious what happened in this instance. I’m just not willing to complain about “disappearing people” with no data. I‘ve always thought Arsians prided themselves on facts and data not fearmongering.

The issue with this in particular is that this is becoming a new normal. In this case, the issue isn't even the facts. It's that people are disappearing in a disturbing trend with no due process, and this is one more such person. Saying that we're all just bellyaching without facts is at least naive, and more likely willfully ignorant.

Maybe this is a (apparently warrantless) arrest. That's deeply problematic no matter what, or at least it should be. But to go on and blame Arsians like you and another commenter below blows right past all the horrifying context this new dictatorship has crystallized in the United States in the last two months. Facts and details or not, this should not be a thing that happens anywhere, especially not in the United States. Why carry water for the dictator and his regime? What about radical transparency? Why is this okay just because we don't have every detail, and if it really is something nefarious on the part of the arrested, why can't there be more than implicit canaries about why? Shouldn't you want to crow about taking down a foreign agent? The FBI happily gloats when they take down scammers and thieves and traffickers. Why does this professor not warrant (no pun intended) some scrap of information to the public?

I repeat, it's not just about the facts. It's about the fact that this is the new regime's modus operandi for making people disappear, and the courts are fluttering their hands and the adults in the room (who are literally and figuratively being forced out of the room) "strongly condemn" or are "deeply concerned" or in the case of every single GOP lawmaker remain silent in shame, if they still have any, or deflect if they've finally gotten over that last human scruple.

 

[Aurich]

I am going to only address this from the Chinese American perspective.

China, ethnically speaking, is nowhere near as diverse as the US. I had to learn the hard way, after a shit load of epithets, spitting, and beatings, that when Americans tell me that I don't belong here or that I should go back to China, that's not generally a reference to only citizenship. It's a proxy for race and ethnicity in a way that an insult against Americans wouldn't be.

That kind of behavior makes a hell of a difference between how welcome someone might feel in a community. Especially folks who are historically marginalized and probably experienced some real shit.

So, what started as a rhetorical question to you becomes a serious question: Is this the kind of discourse that you want on Ars?

I'm sorry you had to experience that.

And I hear your perspective.

But ethnicity and citizenship are not the same thing, despite your totally valid points.

I'm not going to shut down criticism of the Chinese government. Or the Russian, Iranian, Israeli, Canadian, or American governments.

The post in question was definitely borderline. We also have a pretty shit history in this country with conflating race and loyalty, the legacy of the Japanese internment camps shouldn't be forgotten.

At the same time, there's a whole season of Slow Horses about Russian sleeper agents in the UK. It's a topic that exists on even that kind of fictional surface cultural level.

You kind of dodged my question. You turned it into an accounting of your personal experience with racism, but didn't address what I was asking, which was how do you differentiate between racism and valid criticism of governments, that extends to their citizens in complicated ways?

Because the answer isn't "all criticism of China is racist" clearly.

 

[dagar9]

Disappearing people is all part of the fascist police state game plan.

Trump is also now talking seriously about his third term.

The Nazi government called it "Nacht und Nebel" ("Night and Fog") to disappear people without explanation or confirmation as to what had happened. It served to frighten the ones who had not been disappeared (friends, family, co-workers).

[ninja'd by @IndifferentUniverse]

 

[Coriolanus]

But ethnicity and citizenship are not the same thing, despite your totally valid points.

I'm not going to shut down criticism of the Chinese government. Or the Russian, Iranian, Israeli, Canadian, or American governments.

...

You kind of dodged my question. You turned it into an accounting of your personal experience with racism, but didn't address what I was asking, which was how do you differentiate between racism and valid criticism of governments, that extends to their citizens in complicated ways?

Because the answer isn't "all criticism of China is racist" clearly.

Let's address your question then.

Is saying that all people from Mainland China are agents or spies for the government functioning as a criticism of the government? Or just a plain accusation against people?

Using my earlier analogy - is saying "all Mexicans are cartel members" functioning as a criticism of the cartels?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask whether a comment is a valid criticism of a government or not by first asking whether it's actually a criticism of a government.

 

[Aurich]

Is saying that all people from Mainland China are agents or spies for the government a criticism of the government? Or just a plain accusation?

Using my earlier analogy - is saying "all Mexicans are cartel members" functioning as a criticism of the cartels?

With respect, you keep trying to shift the goal posts while avoiding what I have been in good faith trying to ask you.

So I will simply answer your initial question again and I think we can leave it at that for now: that post felt borderline to me, and if I saw a history of what felt like racist content from it I'd have a problem. I looked through their recent posts and didn't detect any.

As I said, where things feel borderline I would prefer to err on the side of not overly moderating, because there are valid discussions on these topics.

 

[siliconaddict]

I would have to assume they've been labeled as Chinese state actors with the FBI involved. I don't think he's lead any protests that would him in the public spotlight to garner Trump's wrath.

At this point who the hell knows. This government is about as transparent as Trump's orange tan soaked skin.

In the before times I would give the gov a small amount of benefit of the doubt as you open up and start talking before you've gathered all the details and collected evidence you could end up having someone jackrabbit or have something erased. But January 20th resulted in zero trust at this point when it comes to ANYTHING being done by the Orange Shit Stain's administration. Simply put we have the early makings of a secret police force being built, what with loyalty tests. So yea. The person is either dead, or somewhere where they probably will never be heard from again.

 

[Tam-Lin]

You assumed that I was in reference to a warrant. I was not. I've clarified my comment. "Order" is more the word, "application" is the process used to get these orders issued.

From the Court site itself:
https://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/about-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court



It's secret, it's not going to be disclosed and it's concerning national intelligence.
That's why I put FISA in as a word and reference.
Any more questions?

Yes; again, these all have to do with foreign entities. Dr. Wang and his wife were both in the US, either green card holders or US citizens (and I suspect the latter), I don't know which. Either way, once you're on US soil, you have due process and other protections.

I don't know what, if anything, the Dr. is accused of. I don't know if he's guilty. I do know that, under our laws, he has rights, and he can't be held incommunicado. The fact that this administration is doing that doesn't make it any less illegal, and just saying "LOL there are no laws now" is obeying in advance. If we have any chance of getting out of this, we need to be very clear about when laws are being broken. Perhaps this time, we won't try to pretend like nothing happened.

Under our laws and Constitution, secret courts aren't a thing. It doesn't matter if it's national security related.

 

[AdrianS]

I went first to "with that job, I'm guessing he's smart, in-demand, and has decent resources, so hopely him and his wife fled the country and are safer now"

2nd) They got disappeared.
3rd) True crime murder/suicide (elsewhere).
4th) Espionage/Spies.
5th) X-files because wtf not at this point.
6th) Ninjas.

How did you forget
7) Abduction by aliens?

 

[unconcerned]

1984.

A manual to be followed. Apparently Trump takes a few tricks from Putin 's toolbox

 

[Aurich]

Fine. It's easy for it to look borderline when you have no skin in the game.

As best as I am humanly capable of I do not moderate based on my personal feelings or connections to things. Believe me, I defend people I strongly disagree with pretty regularly, because our rules aren't "what is Aurich's opinion on things, and do you line up with it?"

As far as whether I am shifting the goalposts or not. Okay, I admit I didn't answer the question initially, but I think I made an argument that the comment wasn't actually a criticism of a government.

What is the connection between the three nations mentioned? It's not race.

All three are autocratic, with governments that will imprison or disappear people, and are not above say leveraging threats to people's families to get them to cooperate with requests.

The borderline part comes from it being phrased in a way that came off fairly ugly. But the underlying point about how the governments function and the leverage they have is still real.

 

[Aurich]

Yes; again, these all have to do with foreign entities. Dr. Wang and his wife were both in the US, either green card holders or US citizens (and I suspect the latter), I don't know which. Either way, once you're on US soil, you have due process and other protections.

I think it's 100% clear at this point that due process on US soil is not actually guaranteed anymore.

It might be the law, but if it's not enforced what does that even mean anymore.

 

[Rhutanium]

How did you forget
7) Abduction by aliens?

I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt whether you're too young to have ever seen the X-Files. He didn't forget.

That being said - that's just silly.

 

[Tam-Lin]

I think it's 100% clear at this point that due process on US soil is not actually guaranteed anymore.

It might be the law, but if it's not enforced what does that even mean anymore.

Yes, I agree, but acting like it's a fait accompli doesn't help. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think this state of affairs is going to last that long. Longer than it should, long enough for a lot of people to get hurt, and die, but there will be another election, and Republicans won't win. Not in 2026, not in 2028. There are a lot of people out there who I disagree with vehemently on most issues, but who agree that what's happening right now is deeply, deeply wrong. And part of recovering from the shitshow that Trump II is going to be is going to involve putting a lot of people in jail.

 

[The Sheep Look Up]

The fact that this administration is doing that

Not a fact. The disappearing bit seems to have come a not-insignificant time before the federal raids. The FBI is a big fan of faits accompli. Even caught dick-in-hand, it doesn't take more than a day or two to scramble evidence collection teams. My money is on "scarpered", with a very outside position on "protective custody".

 

[Chinsukolo]

Big CCP espionage ring about to be rolled up, or 1984?

You see the problem is we can;t know anymore. Even if this was legit FISA, and like actual espionage was done, and it was bad...

Because of the rando unmarked disappearing and ignoring of courts orders, we cant trust a word they say, if they ever say. Maybe this guy is just pro Gaza and made Orange Menace graffiti with a penis inversely sized to Darth Cheetos's Ego.. we'll never and and we cant trust a word they say any more...

Which means when actual bad stuff is caught and found who will know and who will believe?

 

[David Mayer]

First of all, you have no idea the circumstances of why this person and his wife are missing. You don’t know if the government has them of if they fled the country on their own. You have absolutely no data on this, yet you are willing to instantly blame the government based on your personal bias instead of data (or lack thereof).

And second, the administration’s policies regarding individuals that have entered the country illegally is in no way similar to the situation of a tenured professor at a university that has been in this country for 20 years. They are completed different legal scenarios with little to no similarities between them.

the administration’s policies regarding individuals that have entered the country illegally

We aren't talking much about those policies, we are mostly talking about their policies regarding individuals that have entered the country legally.

 

[Pishaw]

Conservatives are still here. We just think it’s silly that everyone on here is complaining about this specific instance where almost no facts are known. If the government in this instance went over the line then by all means blast them. Until then all the bellyaching is just that… complaining for the sake of complaining and getting cheered on by the rabid echo chamber.

Im curious what happened in this instance. I’m just not willing to complain about “disappearing people” with no data. I‘ve always thought Arsians prided themselves on facts and data not fearmongering.

And when Trumps people come for you guns, what will you say? "Let's see how it turns out?"

It turns out if you want to be a dictator, you can't have a bunch of retards with guns and trucks running around. That's just common sense. You eliminate the threat.

Look what happened to the Brown Shirts. Hitlers most loyal people. He had them murdered. Do you think you're any different?

When law enforcement pounds on you door, the sound you'll hear is me laughing. Oh, and they're shooting through the door.

 

[LotusPoet]

How did you forget
7) Abduction by aliens?

X-files?

 

[David Mayer]

And when Trumps people come for you guns, what will you say? "Let's see how it turns out?"

It turns out if you want to be a dictator, you can't have a bunch of retards with guns and trucks running around. That's just common sense. You eliminate the threat.

Look what happened to the Brown Shirts. Hitlers most loyal people. He had them murdered. Do you think you're any different?

When law enforcement pounds on you door, the sound you'll hear is me laughing. Oh, and they're shooting through the door.

retard

FYI that's a slur that people with mental health issues generally prefer not be used in this way.

 

[Léthé]

In the Mastodon thread mentioned in the article, someone who claims to be a colleague from 20+ years wrote a few hours ago:

I noticed immediately and have been trying to get information. I have been re-assured that he is in the US, has not been charged with anything, and is well. I completely understand him not wanting to talk to people with all this legal uncertainty. Silence tends to be the advice of lawyers.

 

[Num Lock]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask whether a comment is a valid criticism of a government or not by first asking whether it's actually a criticism of a government.

To add to this, the assumption that someone who is non-white owes allegiance to a foreign country is racist. It doesn’t matter if that’s real loyalty or compelled (“they might have relatives back in their homeland the government can use against them!”), it’s racism. The underlying assumption is that non-white people cannot be American and can never have full allegiance to America.

Now I am literally descended from entirely native-born Americans since the mid 1800s. But because I'm obviously not white, I often get this fun question: "Where are you from?" This is, inevitably, a proxy for "What is your ethnicity/race?" because they are never satisfied with "the Midwest" or "My parents were born in New York" as an answer. Only when we get down to "My mother's side left Germany and Britain in the 1800s and my dad's side was enslaved in Georgia" are they ever satisfied.

 

[dagar9]

First of all, you have no idea the circumstances of why this person and his wife are missing. You don’t know if the government has them of if they fled the country on their own. You have absolutely no data on this, yet you are willing to instantly blame the government based on your personal bias instead of data (or lack thereof).

And second, the administration’s policies regarding individuals that have entered the country illegally is in no way similar to the situation of a tenured professor at a university that has been in this country for 20 years. They are completed different legal scenarios with little to no similarities between them.

It is true that at this point, we don't know why these people are missing, though if they abandoned two houses it would seem to have been under great pressure.

AFAIK the foreign students who were snatched entered the country legally, they just said things the administration didn't like. At least some of the Venezuelans were also in the US legally. "The administration" encompasses not only those at the very top, but underlings who do things they think will be approved by their higher-ups. The alleged cops who hide their faces and snatch people are such underlings, as presumably are their bosses..

 

[Chuckstar]

Someone said something about "begs the question" but as usual doesn't understand the expression doesn't mean "brings up the question."

All this talk does beg the question:

• What did this professor do? That seems to be overlooked so he can be condemned for about 100,000 things he MAY HAVE DONE with no charges, no convictions, no warrants, nothing.
• What did HIS WIFE do? There could be a "conspiracy to commit X" and then "commited X" and were "charged with X" and "convicted of X" and "incarcerated or deported for X". But X is a stupid Musk thing, and the wheels of "justice" don't move in two weeks. Hell it takes a month to get a real hearing... and their lawyer SAYS nothing (no comment as to whether he KNOWS something).

When we (the US) put black pillowcases on people's heads in the public street and disappear them, then orange-soda and his klan have made us worse than the worst regime on earth. Ever.

And we (Arsians) and some media people and some lawyers (Ken White, Larry Tribe, etc.) speak of it, but the political power brokers just bend over and suck that orange dick. We disgust me.

I get so tired of that oh-so-smarter-than-though trope that "begs the question" doesn't mean "brings up with question". You know how languages work? Things mean what people agree they mean.

In my many decades of life, I have never once heard anyone use (or heard of anyone use) "begs the question" in the way that the "well akshewally" types claim it is "supposed" to be used in. Literally the only time a different meaning is even hinted at is when those types are telling everyone else they're using it wrong. So you know who is actually wrong about the meaning of that phrase? You!

 

[Legatum_of_Kain]

I invite everyone to read about the Dirty War and the coalition, and what happened.

This has a precedent, a lot of people just thought this would never happen again, and they were wrong.

They were even more wrong to think they did not need to teach this in schools.