Boardroom Miscellaneous Thread

[papadage]

Almost as bad are the ones who are not themselves assholes but bend over backward to cover for terrible company policies in front of their reports. I'll posit that some may not agree with the policies and try to convince management otherwise and put up a front on behalf of the company in front of their teams, but many are just good corporate soldiers or don't want to make waves, which is almost as bad.

Our team lead may not tell us a policy stinks, but he does tell us he argues against it, and I trust his word. It's nice to know you have someone on your side at the table where feedback is gathered from line managers.

 

[hanser]

Big muckety mucks at large banking core provider: "Yeah, uh, we need to get your solution integrated here. The only banks that have these capabilities are the Chases of the world. We'll need to figure out a way to just turn you on en masse for everyone."

And they originally said they don't do deals on their paper for anyone. haha

And the #2 banking core provider said the same thing late last week.

I haven't posted much about business lately, because I've been pretty focused on building new products, but it definitely feels like there's a sea change underway. It's all early days, but I feel like we might be leaving the onesies and twosies GTM phase and taking our first steps into the "at scale" GTM motions.

 

[Case]

My brother in arms! HUGS

(People) management is a vast gulf away from being a capable expert and Getting Shit Done. I don't want do deal with the (people) bullshit. I want to (and do) Know Things and Guide Things.

Unfortunately, from my perspective - the people who step into those management roles far too often are even worse than an empty seat.

The tough part is....in many ways I think I'd make a good manager, if all a manager had to do was manage people and their workloads, and be their buffer so they didn't have to be exposed to upper management. I'd love to have input on projects.

Hell I'm even pretty good at dealing with people including the execs I've dealt with. I just don't want to deal with them, because they largely are pieces of shit (professionally at least, I'm sure at home they take off their American Psycho mask and are the proverbial Nice Person (tm)).

It wasn't a super easy call--especially because it meant leaving money on the table--but I knew at some point my lack of tolerance for dipshittery would get me in serious trouble. It honestly has done that a couple times as it is as a senior analyst I just try to bite my tongue when I see the same old mistakes being made, because another thing I've learned is that management really doesn't like to hear how past projects have failed, and hear how similar this new one is with the past several. Like Lucy and the football, this time it'll be different! Besides, what's the point when you only hear about something after the contract/SLA is signed, with nobody there to ask the important questions up front

 

[KT421]

Ugh. IRS.gov still doesn't have reflected what I'm supposed to owe them when I filed. They said accepted, it's been like 2 weeks, or so. Long since gotten my CA refund. sigh

My CA refund took 3 days, Fed took 3 weeks. The people at the IRS are having a rough time

 

[Drizzt321]

My CA refund took 3 days, Fed took 3 weeks. The people at the IRS are having a rough time

Well, it'll be 3 weeks this Fri, so maybe next Mon I'll try logging onto IRS portal and it'll be there and visible. sigh

 

[ramases]

The tough part is....in many ways I think I'd make a good manager, if all a manager had to do was manage people and their workloads, and be their buffer so they didn't have to be exposed to upper management. I'd love to have input on projects.

Hell I'm even pretty good at dealing with people including the execs I've dealt with. I just don't want to deal with them, because they largely are pieces of shit (professionally at least, I'm sure at home they take off their American Psycho mask and are the proverbial Nice Person (tm)).

It wasn't a super easy call--especially because it meant leaving money on the table--but I knew at some point my lack of tolerance for dipshittery would get me in serious trouble. It honestly has done that a couple times as it is as a senior analyst I just try to bite my tongue when I see the same old mistakes being made, because another thing I've learned is that management really doesn't like to hear how past projects have failed, and hear how similar this new one is with the past several. Like Lucy and the football, this time it'll be different! Besides, what's the point when you only hear about something after the contract/SLA is signed, with nobody there to ask the important questions up front

You could come to the dark side, ie consulting.

Not only do we have cookies, you may get to not only make snarky observations like "you know why Foobar failed? Because both Foo and Bar had failed previously, and in more or less the same way, because Pinky over there foolishly made the same mistake three times and learned nothing.", you might even get paid for it. And taken seriously, because they pay an expensive hourly rate for you, so clearly you must know what you do.

I lost count how often I told people things that were taken as surprising insights, but that they could have known themselves a long time ago, had they known whom of their employees to listen to on what topic. I mean, like, in a large share of cases this is where I get those insights from: Their own staff.

 

[Jables]

^^^

100%; my formative consultant experiences were being enraged that everything they told management was what we (the employees) had been saying for years.
Eventually I realized it's probably the same phenomenon that made us get a tutor for my daughter to tell her the same things we were telling her, except now she listened because it wasn't us.

So eventually as an IC I learned to just leverage them for what they were and my blood pressure dropped a lot.

Now my whole life in this Director role is managing a small army of consultants so glad to have gotten that out of my system years ago.

 

[pasorrijer]

And I promise. We really will say what you want us too. We're on your side because it's way easier to get rehired when both the working and leader class like you

 

[ramases]

And I promise. We really will say what you want us too. We're on your side because it's way easier to get rehired when both the working and leader class like you

Uhm yes and no.

Yes, because at least some of us will mostly say what we think the persons we're currently engaging with at the client need to hear; often, especially in situations at my previous post, this ends up close to what employees would have wanted us to say. No, because if in my opinion the leadership is right, or if from our perspective a different position than internal stakeholders makes the most sense, then at least our folks would make no bones about that.

In the end our self-perception is we're being paid to give a frank assessment from our point of view, and to the best of our abilities. The business of telling clients what we believe they want to hear is something we're leaving to our competitors; that particular market is too saturated anyway for our likes.

 

[Case]

No doubt, I've seen it many times as well--some smooth-talking vendor or consultant gets the ear of the curly-haired ones and next thing you know the company is spending big dollars on something that we rank and file have suggested for years, and probably could have built for "free".

And we end up spending as much or more time supporting and amending that something as we would have if we'd built it in house, so there's no person-hour savings. We've seen things like hard-coded years in apps that only break long after the vendor is gone (we didn't even know there WAS a vendor until they were already done coding and went to hand it off in that case...). In most cases that I've seen, vendor/consultant driven projects have been rube goldberg bullshit that only works long enough for the company to clear the check. Why should they care about maintenance, it's hack after hack to get it sorta working. Sometimes a very big check too, for a company the size of the ones I've worked for. Infuriating if you actually care about what happens to the company, the solution for your sanity is that you learn to stop caring. The beatings will continue until morale improves!

 

[Vince-RA]

Heard in a call today: "I don't want the tech team spending any time on infrastructure, all the available time needs to be spend on delivering new features"

5 minutes later from the same person.... "I need answers to all these due diligence questions from clients and prospects [that relate directly to infrastructure]"

You are not gonna like the client reaction to those answers, my dude, see if you can guess why

 

[hanser]

Security is a feature, actually.

 

[Vince-RA]

And as it turns out, a pretty important feature when you're trying to sell to banks and financial services companies.

 

[ramases]

And if you have a capable team they will spend time on infra anyway:

A capable team will walk out on an idiot like that (perhaps they should, but, you know, geeks on a self-appointed mission ...) a) figure out which infra is a critical enabler, or can make work go faster in the long run, and then b) simply lie to you in order to get it done.

They will find the projects that are dear to you, and they will find ways to scope in infra-work under another name, and they will pad the shit out of estimates under some other pretense to hide the work in their buffer time.

This is how you end up in a "I don't know why all the features take so much time for us?" scenario; it's not the features that take the time, but the crap they are flying under the radar with the feature running interference.

If, on the other hand, you don't have a capable team then you might get your wish of no infra work; but then you also don't have a capable engineering team, and your competitors (or "competitors" like Pavol and his mates in St. Petersburg ... ) might, sooooooo ...

 

[w00key]

They will find the projects that are dear to you, and they will find ways to scope in infra-work under another name, and they will pad the shit out of estimates under some other pretense to hide the work in their buffer time.

Ah, one of my favorite episodes, https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Edict_(episode)

IRL I think everyone, everywhere need buffer time. Even if it's just for housekeeping tasks and destressing; crunch too long and you'll notice that Jira / Trello boards will become an insane mess.

 

[ramases]

IRL I think everyone, everywhere need buffer time. Even if it's just for housekeeping tasks and destressing; crunch too long and you'll notice that Jira / Trello boards will become an insane mess.

Of course, but there's buffer-time and then there's "we're hiding a complete rework of our audit logging in another project" "buffer-time".

I try to run my teams at around 70-80% of planned capacity. This allows some room for mistake if Shit Happens (or people just get sick) while preserving a reasonable amount of planning fidelity, and if everything goes as planned people have time to do housekeeping, admin/status tasks, work on existing technical debt[0], maybe burn a couple banked plus hours if they feel like it, ...

[0] I like to set it up as technical debt having its own backlog, but you can pull from it into the sprint, and if you want to you are also encouraged to talk about it in the demo/review. Working down technical debt is valuable work and deserves just as much visibility as other work.

 

[Tom the Melaniephile]

Ah, one of my favorite episodes, https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Edict_(episode)

IRL I think everyone, everywhere need buffer time. Even if it's just for housekeeping tasks and destressing; crunch too long and you'll notice that Jira / Trello boards will become an insane mess.

I haven't watched Lower Decks, thinking about a Paramount+ subscription to get caught up on ST, though with the 11 year old we'd probably start on TNG

While LD looks to have fleshed it out a lot more thoroughly, I distinctly remember Scotty advocating for the concept in https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Relics_(episode) - especially apt as he had survived the prior 75 years in a (pattern) buffer in order to avoid the ravages of time.

I definitely do my best to maintain buffer time at work: Personally, for individual projects in my portfolio and by pushing at the right time I've now built some into the project contract templates the whole Division uses. Buffer time has kept more than one project track after a pretty serious setback.

 

[Vince-RA]

I should probably be less snarky about all this. This guy is having a rocky transition from survival-mode startup to now having been acquired by a grown up company doing things in such a way that multi-billion dollar clients are comfortable sending us their data. One way or another he is going to have to learn that infrastructure and security work are, as hanser says, actual features and not something that is an opposite of development progress. In fact just the opposite in my view - if you treat that kind of work as an annoyance, sooner or later your lack of progress there will become a major impediment to delivering anything at all.

 

[Sog]

The number of conversations in the team for how to persuade or work around grandboss' personality seems to grow as time goes on. A coworker pulled me aside for an 80 minute call today to prep me for a call they want to schedule soon so I could be ready to argue against grandboss.

During the call I was shown a link shared with them as evidence for a particular decision they mean to combat. The link is talking about why not to do what grandboss is advocating for. Said coworker admitted to being exhausted by having to deflect so many of these decisions - they're in a position to work with this person daily.

 

[Drizzt321]

That's horrifying.

 

[brainchasm]

In better days (but also still today), it was a weekly-if-not-daily thing to acknowledge the owner's new harebrained email, and promptly not do that thing. He's not mad...he doesn't even remember...but he can't bitch about performance and stability of the environment. No, he cannot.

 

[Case]

The number of conversations in the team for how to persuade or work around grandboss' personality seems to grow as time goes on. A coworker pulled me aside for an 80 minute call today to prep me for a call they want to schedule soon so I could be ready to argue against grandboss.

During the call I was shown a link shared with them as evidence for a particular decision they mean to combat. The link is talking about why not to do what grandboss is advocating for. Said coworker admitted to being exhausted by having to deflect so many of these decisions - they're in a position to work with this person daily.

Not to mention this is usually a very thankless job. Or even a dangerous one. The type of narcissistic know-it-all bosses that make asinine decisions in areas where they are unqualified are also the type to take opposition personally. Even if that opposition is being done to save their company's ass.

I'm the type to argue, which is why I decided it's probably best to not put myself in a position to do so. My favorite from a couple years back is when the boss decides that the application needed a no-sql database. Based on no other reason that it's modern and cool (a common theme). This is after code is basically complete, and the (appropriate) relational database has already been designed. The lead dev just said ok, and added Redis in to a non-critical part of the site. Was that ridiculous? Sure. Would I have spent 10 times as long as it took to build it arguing over it if it were me? Yes. And as I say, probably get a black eye doing it.

This of course being one of the more minor and less impactful examples of curly-haired arrogance and stupidity, there have been far worse ones that can't just easily be coded around.

 

[nimro]

Salary review time! Aaaaand it's a below inflation adjustment again. Sigh.

 

[abj]

Salary review time! Aaaaand it's a below inflation adjustment again. Sigh.

Same here. My EoY review had exceeds expectations in all categories, but I got a 3% raise.

But hey at least I got some RSUs that will probably be worthless by the time they vest

 

[diabol1k]

The cynic in me thinks that firms expect a general economic downturn is coming because [Soap Box] and so they're getting a jump on their comp bullshit, expecting that folks will generally feel anchored to a job in the hand sooner rather than later.

 

[hanser]

They're probably not wrong.

 

[wallinbl]

The cynic in me thinks that firms expect a general economic downturn is coming because [Soap Box] and so they're getting a jump on their comp bullshit, expecting that folks will generally feel anchored to a job in the hand sooner rather than later.

The leadership team I've worked for most of my career (and am now part of) has used every downturn / recession into a record year for profit by leveraging the economic forecast as an excuse to reduce staffing, limit raises, and push vendors for better terms. Given that demand for our services is relatively inelastic, this results in increased profit and meets very little resistance from people because "the economy - what are you going to do?"

Not a fan of it at all, but it works, so no one really cares to hear my arguments against it.

 

[herko]

I've had below-inflation adjustments repeatedly, with non-stop exceeds expectations. It's the nature of the beast, working for a public university, but it gets old. The only way here to get a real bump is to get promoted, or switch jobs.

 

[The Rock]

Ok, so posting a job for metro area 1 or area 2, that are, respectively, 2 hours and 4 hours by car (and about the same via Amtrak) from actual metro area 3 where you want the person to work, is NOT okay.

 

[curih]

Ok, so posting a job for metro area 1 or area 2, that are, respectively, 2 hours and 4 hours by car (and about the same via Amtrak) from actual metro area 3 where you want the person to work, is NOT okay.

I assume it's not "remote, but we want you close enough to come in every few weeks".

 

[Sog]

expecting that folks will generally feel anchored to a job in the hand sooner rather than later.

I already feel anchored to current job. There is a "security" aspect of it even if logically that seems silly. I'm tied to an industry that can do okay on a downturn (so I think). Although now I'm tied to a bigger company who isn't as a whole as protected. May not change that they want cuts across the board and that feeling is moot.

I've had below-inflation adjustments repeatedly, with non-stop exceeds expectations.

My friend is a CHRO and when she explains how reviews should work it sounds great. But with my 25 years in corporate jobs it hasn't worked that way. Plus any pay alterations have been decided without the review. Literally this year I was told the team got a flat % across all 10 of us with no input from our management. At previous job if you got something it was determined by someone 3 levels above you. I didn't work with the person 3 levels above me.

 

[ramases]

I've had below-inflation adjustments repeatedly, with non-stop exceeds expectations. It's the nature of the beast, working for a public university, but it gets old. The only way here to get a real bump is to get promoted, or switch jobs.

Or be a contractor. Which is why many of those employers spend so much on contractors; it is the inevitable consequence of their own salary award processes.

The leadership team I've worked for most of my career (and am now part of) has used every downturn / recession into a record year for profit by leveraging the economic forecast as an excuse to reduce staffing, limit raises, and push vendors for better terms.

The problem of course is that this creates perverse incentives for people aware of how to play the game: Another phrase for 'relatively inelastic demand' is ... 'being irreplaceable, at least without the sort of pain and cost the company would wish to avoid'. At the end of the day, if you are capable and play your cards right, most companies will not risk a critical/high-level resource leaving over a handful of percent, at least if they can obtain confidentiality over the raise. It just isn't worth it.

Given that demand for our services is relatively inelastic, this results in increased profit and meets very little resistance from people because "the economy - what are you going to do?"

I've had that convo a few times in my career. My reply alway was that they're well aware that I track my compensation in constant-year Euros, that any below-inflation increase is a pay cut in real terms no matter what nominal terms say, and that if I had wanted that sort of exposure to market volatility they could pay my consulting rates instead.

 

[herko]

My friend is a CHRO and when she explains how reviews should work it sounds great. But with my 25 years in corporate jobs it hasn't worked that way. Plus any pay alterations have been decided without the review. Literally this year I was told the team got a flat % across all 10 of us with no input from our management. At previous job if you got something it was determined by someone 3 levels above you. I didn't work with the person 3 levels above me.

Yup, indeed my pay increase is decided before the review.

At least for my employees I get to review them, then I get a budget for increases and I can allocate them (within certain guardrails). Is the budget greater than inflation? Sometimes. Therefore everyone tends to get the highest adjustment I can give them, because fuck giving someone a pay cut when the entire team performs consistently well.

And as to why I can do that but my boss can't, I'm classified as an executive and the process is different for rank-and-file ("classified") staff at my place.

 

[herko]

The other thing I do to keep my comp increasing is to negotiate more pay for more responsibility even without a promotion, i.e. trigger a salary review based on expanded scope. This I've been pretty successful at, and it more-than-makes up for the tepid increases, but it does mean I keep piling more and more stuff on my plate...

 

[hamete]

In general, the Employee-employer power dynamic had shifted since the peak COVID era even before the volatility and potential recession worry.

 

[abj]

Yeah that's why you see big companies instituting RTO fuckery.

 

[wallinbl]

Finally figured out how to track enough data to prove something I've long theorized. Turned out to be way more compelling than I expected it to be. Previous significant wins on this issue have moved the needle 1-2 points. This moves it 15 points.

 

[hanser]

The other thing I do to keep my comp increasing is to negotiate more pay for more responsibility even without a promotion, i.e. trigger a salary review based on expanded scope. This I've been pretty successful at, and it more-than-makes up for the tepid increases, but it does mean I keep piling more and more stuff on my plate...

Delegate that shit out the door once you've harvested its narrative value.

 

[The Rock]

I assume it's not "remote, but we want you close enough to come in every few weeks".

Sorta. Sales Engineering role for a certain vertical so having face time with the customer is important, but you do not want to overstay your welcome.

 

[waubers]

Really struggling with my company right now, which is a huge pivot (for the worse) from a few weeks ago.

Since the start of the month, we've been told that there will be no pay raises this year, and instead we get "generous" RSU awards with a 1-year vest... Those RSUs amount (for me) to about 9.5% of my compensation. Many peers got closer to 5%.

Well there Mr. new CEO, that'll mean I'll have been here for almost 4.5 years by the time those RSUs vest. In that time I've been promoted twice, will have had (at least) 3 "exceeds" reviews, and taken on significantly more work (and travel) and have received a whole 2.5% COL increase in May of 2024, during a period of wildly high inflation.

My salary is worth 13% less now, than when I started in Jan of 22.

Meanwhile, in 2024 our stock rose 44%, and since I've started it's up over 90%. We exceeded sales goals last year, and recently analyst guidance targets increased by almost 20% on the strength of sales in 2024 and the forecast given for this (2025) fiscal year. We have more cash on hand, relative to sales, than we've ever had. Our EPS is better than it's ever been.

It figures, since I turned down an offer from an old manager a few weeks ago, because I was optimistic our raises and RSUs this year would be decent. Well, you fooled me once, it won't happen again.

In my 1:1 with my manager tomorrow I'll be asking some pretty pointed questions, not least of which will be "Why should I care about KPIs when, even with 2024 being one of our best years in the 30+ year history of the company, there's almost no chance for compensation increases, even coming off being promoted last year and being promised an increase this year? Why yes, I do have those emails."