World of Warcraft - The War Within

[NavyGothic]

Delves have been a bit of a wild ride this week. Hotfix after hotfix after hotfix, each with major impacts on the balance between different specs and group size. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it in all my years of WoW.

And of course the funny thing is that after this week... it really won't matter too much. M+ and Mythic raid are finally unlocked, and casual players will bump up their iLvl to the point where even the current hard +8s aren't that scary. It's only this week where Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, put the best gear in a rather broken and unbalanced new content type.

Personally, since the latest (I think?) hotfix yesterday, I've been running my +8s in 5 man groups and it's not too hard. But this is meant to be a casual and solo-friendly mode...

Ended the week with 4/8 Heroic. Tuned considerably harder than normal, but an extra week of gear should make for fairly easy repeat kills.

 

[Telwar]

Delves are going to be hard to figure out regardless for Blizzard, because of spec and class differences. It is so, so much easier to live on my paladin than my rogue, because of superior damage reduction and self-sustain. That being said, at this point I can reliably complete +8s on the paladin, and probably +7s on the rogue (+6s easily, unless it's a bullshit "oh look here are more mobs jumping in while you're already decisively engaged...yes, you, who depends on attacking from stealth!" section).

Personally, I don't see the point to doing delves in groups, as the initial advertisement was for challenging solo content, and if I wanted to have to look for groups for that I'd just do M+. At least you can't really "brick" a Delve like you can a M+ key.

 

[NavyGothic]

Committing to Delves as a solo experience might have been the better option. Balance is a difficult problem, but Brann goes a long way to smoothing the curve. I still don't think I'd love them, but it would be a legit new game-mode for people who enjoy solo content, and that's a good thing.

As it is, yes, agreed that group delves are just bad M+.

 

[Getting Better]

My wife likes shiny gear, but doesn't want to deal with a bunch of strangers. I found out today she just goes with whatever the "starter" talent suggestion is. So for her, having 2-person delves is nice.

 

[Tom the Melaniephile]

Seems that a lot of these delves are problematic for Evokers, as Deep Breath is a pretty big part of the DPS output. Which means significant movement. That does not go well with a candle/air totem which shrinks whenever you move.

 

[Getting Better]

Seems that a lot of these delves are problematic for Evokers, as Deep Breath is a pretty big part of the DPS output. Which means significant movement. That does not go well with a candle/air totem which shrinks whenever you move.

Maybe not possible, depending on how everything works for evokers, but I always carry the candle to a room, drop it, usually so it's light ring is almost adjacent to the next candle), so I have 2 big light rings to fight in and since I'm not holding the candle, it doesn't shrink.

 

[Telwar]

The "put down the candle" button is on the right. It took me awhile to find it, lol.

 

[NavyGothic]

By far my worst experience was the underwater one, I think Sinkhole? I don't like the air bubble mechanic; but my girlfriend was having an even worse time and let's just say she was very keen to share her thoughts throughout the run

 

[Getting Better]

The "put down the candle" button is on the right. It took me awhile to find it, lol.

I didn’t see that for a while too, but one run I took the risk and just right clicked the buff in the top right with all the other buffs, and that dropped the candle.

I’ve since swapped to using the arrow button you’re describing since the buffs one is dynamically positioned and I was occasionally right clicking the wrong buff when icons shuffled at the last moment.

 

[LizandreBZH]

Committing to Delves as a solo experience might have been the better option. Balance is a difficult problem, but Brann goes a long way to smoothing the curve. I still don't think I'd love them, but it would be a legit new game-mode for people who enjoy solo content, and that's a good thing.

As it is, yes, agreed that group delves are just bad M+.

But Blizzard have painted themselves into a corner, as delves are now the easiest path to early season gearing, better than normal raid and M0. So players are farming them, in groups, as they would lower M+, until they can access higher M+ and heroic raid.

 

[Ananke]

I've managed 3 tier 8s, all post some or all of the hotfix rollercoaster, two of them with lives remaining.

Not a fun experience, at the moment, at least not on a Priest. Enormously worse experience than Torghast was on a Paladin.

 

[NavyGothic]

So there is a Draenic Water Breathing Elixir which gives you waterbreathing (duh) for an hour. That makes the Sinkhole dramatically easier and less annoying.

 

[Getting Better]

I've managed 3 tier 8s, all post some or all of the hotfix rollercoaster, two of them with lives remaining.

Not a fun experience, at the moment, at least not on a Priest. Enormously worse experience than Torghast was on a Paladin.

Yeah, the class difference is rough, I’d imagine. I feel very “lucky” in that a fury warrior has great sustained and burst dmg output as well as decent defensives, decent heals, and can shift almost at will to d stance for 15% mitigation.

Reason I put lucky in quotes up there is that this is exactly why I leveled a fury warrior this xpac, suspecting I’d do mostly pvp, and maybe some delves. I was tired of try-harding on rogue and priest in earlier xpacs and wanted to get a taste of the good life. And wow is it good.

 

[Tom the Melaniephile]

I didn’t see that for a while too, but one run I took the risk and just right clicked the buff in the top right with all the other buffs, and that dropped the candle.

I believe that button didn't exist for the first ~week, but I've not been using it and I should (not my Evoker, it's my friend)

 

[Mike Bridge]

By far my worst experience was the underwater one, I think Sinkhole? I don't like the air bubble mechanic; but my girlfriend was having an even worse time and let's just say she was very keen to share her thoughts throughout the run

I just switch in the epic fishing pole from wotlk and I can ignore the bubble mechanic in the underwater delves, but that doesn't help with the bad pathing for brann & pets.

 

[infernal666]

So there is a Draenic Water Breathing Elixir which gives you waterbreathing (duh) for an hour. That makes the Sinkhole dramatically easier and less annoying.

If you still have the Kaluak fishing pole from Wrath you can equip that in the Fishing profession tab and have perma waterbreathing everywhere, it's super nice on my hunter.

 

[Getting Better]

Amazing. Thanks!

 

[Ladnil]

I've managed 3 tier 8s, all post some or all of the hotfix rollercoaster, two of them with lives remaining.

Not a fun experience, at the moment, at least not on a Priest. Enormously worse experience than Torghast was on a Paladin.

I've capped out my shadow priest delves at 7, running with a DPS Brann, ilvl somewhere in the 580-something range. Couldn't manage an 8, but I only tried one, might have just been a particularly tough one, not sure.

Windwalker Monk was doing 8s with pure heroic dungeon and reputation buyable gear. Starting out I was having to CC and pull things one at a time to survive, but now at 595, I'm able to AOE down some smaller things, still taking the big dangerous elites on their own. Brann in healer mode for the monk.

 

[Telwar]

So, I have two 80s and two 73s.

I have six Vault picks on the paladin, and three for the rogue, which is the most I have ever had on characters at this stage of an expansion.

Amusingly, the 73s have two Vault picks each, from doing open world events and Assignments. I can't open them today, but presumably they'll be waiting for them to hit 80.

This pleases me greatly, not to be treated as a second-or-third-class player because I don't like M+.

 

[NavyGothic]

For solo delves, I'd highly recommend using healer Brann with the talent to spawn extra healing pots. If you can keep the stack rolling by picking up a potion every 10s, it basically makes you invulnerable to anything but one-shots.

(And DPS Brann is a useless chucklefuck since the latest nerf)

 

[Mortus]

Man, the lag has been real as of late.

 

[Rethre]

I've been disconnected randomly the last couple nights and unable to get back in.

Hoping it's cleared up by the weekend so can at least get a few things done

 

[Ananke]

I finally had an opportunity to do one of the Kobold delves in a group.

I knew Demon Hunters had some mechanics that made them jump about, but wow, when they're the ones holding the candle, you really notice the "four year old after two shots of espresso" factor.

 

[Mortus]

I finally had an opportunity to do one of the Kobold delves in a group.

I knew Demon Hunters had some mechanics that made them jump about, but wow, when they're the ones holding the candle, you really notice the "four year old after two shots of espresso" factor.

A heads up since I learned this the hard way (as a DH). You can drop the candle.

 

[Ananke]

I know that. They didn't

 

[TechLee]

I finally had an opportunity to do one of the Kobold delves in a group.

I knew Demon Hunters had some mechanics that made them jump about, but wow, when they're the ones holding the candle, you really notice the "four year old after two shots of espresso" factor.

I haven't had the, uh...experience?, of that, but I can ONLY imagine.

On a delve-related note, any thoughts if we're getting more options besides Brann coming up? One of the Brutes mentioned that the achievement mentions getting a delve companion to X level, not get Brann to X level.

 

[Telwar]

A heads up since I learned this the hard way (as a DH). You can drop the candle.

I can see, in the distant future, kobold DHs doing those delves and getting buffs from fighting other kobolds for the candle. "NO TAKE CANDLE!!!!!!!"

 

[Tom the Melaniephile]

I finally had an opportunity to do one of the Kobold delves in a group.

I knew Demon Hunters had some mechanics that made them jump about, but wow, when they're the ones holding the candle, you really notice the "four year old after two shots of espresso" factor.

As was pointed out to me by the spouse after a couple of runs together: One can (and often should) drop the candle on the floor for combat....

Yes, I was the one holding the candle.

 

[orionquest]

Hey gang

I ended up re-subbing for the new expansion. It's fun, I don't think it's at the same level of impact as DF. But clearly one of the better ones. Some of it feels a bit recycled in terms of NPC's and targets you meet. Could be on purpose as these are returning fractions? I dunno I'm not following the story to deeply. Overall seems very solo friendly which is great for someone like me without a guild or regular schedule to hit up raids.

I just hit 80 on my shammy, which typically would be my 2nd character to go through, my main is a holy priest, but decided to take advantage of the warband and have them unlock everything first by completing the main story. Everything went pretty smooth. I preferred the methods they used in story telling in DF over TWW. This kinda feels like a step back, and just a bunch of quests, which they are, but in DF at least the main characters where introduced and they took you along to different areas, instead of just telling you to do something and wait for you. Just my impression. Also it feels like the horde and that side (I'm alliance) is kinda missing? Since we are all buddy buddy now I thought they would have more of a presence, they do show up at the end. Maybe future patches will bring them more into it.

I like the new hero talents they give that extra oomph to taking out mobs/etc.

 

[NavyGothic]

On a delve-related note, any thoughts if we're getting more options besides Brann coming up? One of the Brutes mentioned that the achievement mentions getting a delve companion to X level, not get Brann to X level.

I think that's a near certainty. It's an easy win which doesn't require much dev work (just pick another fan favourite, give them roughly equivalent abilities, some fun new voice lines, kablammo!), for content which is proving very popular now that the worst of the bugs and whatnot are fixed.

We're still pushing through Heroic; killed 5+6 last night (after hours of wipes last week...). I really like Nexus Princess, it's challenging but fair and I really like the way all the mechanics positioning is under your control. Can't say I'm hugely looking forward to Silken Court, I think that boss is mechanics overload even on Normal... but we'll see soon enough.

One thing I'm not a huge fan of is that Holy Priest is very heavily pushed into Lightweaver (spot healing) build by our tier set. That's okay, I don't dislike the build itself and frequently play it in M+; but it's quite difficult to raid shotcall and spot heal effectively at the same time, compared to my usual build of brainlessly farting out AOE heals on demand. Still, can't argue with the results, my healing output is significantly higher last night, and spot healing is always more valuable anyway.

 

[NavyGothic]

Holy fuck Queen Ansurek is crazy on Heroic.

 

[Ananke]

The jump in difficulty from the first 4 bosses in heroic to either of the next two is pretty spectacular. We went through, not-quite-one-shotting the first four but getting them all in the first night in heroic.

Then came egg lady.

One of those bosses where all the difficulty revolves around whether the least reliable member of the raid can pull off the difficult mechanic every time, without error, or ... not.

 

[NavyGothic]

The jump in difficulty from the first 4 bosses in heroic to either of the next two is pretty spectacular. We went through, not-quite-one-shotting the first four but getting them all in the first night in heroic.

Then came egg lady.

One of those bosses where all the difficulty revolves around whether the least reliable member of the raid can pull off the difficult mechanic every time, without error, or ... not.

Yeah, Broodtwister and Nexus Princess are definitely fights where one person fucking up is rough. I think it's possible to recover from a mistake (unlike say Anduin who had multiple hard fails), but it's gonna mean blowing all your defensives and healer cds etc. to make it through.

Funnily enough Silken Court turned out to be exactly the same as Normal, just bigger numbers. So if you can get through Broodtwister and Nexus Princess, Silken Court is a gimme.

 

[NavyGothic]

Trying to heal +10 keys (only done a few, and all 1hr+ wipefests) really has me questioning my skill level.

 

[Getting Better]

what ilvl are people usually at to do +10s?

 

[Ladnil]

Trying to heal +10 keys (only done a few, and all 1hr+ wipefests) really has me questioning my skill level.

I haven't gone above +5 yet, but just watching Jak's stream for a little bit I was so shocked with how calm everything seemed. I suppose it's because he gets groups where people avoid damage and use their defensives, but he's just chilling in a +10 casually reading chat and keeping people topped up and the health bars are bouncing around way less than my +5s.

 

[NavyGothic]

what ilvl are people usually at to do +10s?

Well I can vouch that you can do +10s with everyone ~610 to 615. Doing them in less than an hour is another matter hah!

 

[NavyGothic]

I haven't gone above +5 yet, but just watching Jak's stream for a little bit I was so shocked with how calm everything seemed. I suppose it's because he gets groups where people avoid damage and use their defensives, but he's just chilling in a +10 casually reading chat and keeping people topped up and the health bars are bouncing around way less than my +5s.

See I'm at about the level where we're reasonably competent players, can handle/dodge most mechanics, and co-ordinated enough to call kicks and stops etc.; but we're not quite at the level of co-ordinating party cooldowns (both offensive and defensive).

Those top end guys go in with a pretty good idea of how every pull is going to go; when they need burst and when to hold; and calling defensive rotations on bosses so you don't overlap with healer cds.

So, for example, a really good group will stagger cooldowns on each big boss burst ability so the healer only has to heal 2 people instead of 4. Meanwhile we see "ohshit" damage, do the "right" thing and pop a defensive to survive... and then someone dies on the next burst.

 

[Getting Better]

Well I can vouch that you can do +10s with everyone ~610 to 615. Doing them in less than an hour is another matter hah!

Thanks much! One of these days I'm going to try a mythic. Been playing since vanilla, but don't know what a key is or how to get one. Seems like I've been missing out on a pretty big part of the game.

 

[NavyGothic]

Thanks much! One of these days I'm going to try a mythic. Been playing since vanilla, but don't know what a key is or how to get one. Seems like I've been missing out on a pretty big part of the game.

IMO M+ is probably the most successful experiment since launch. I think it's telling that I used to unsub for a few months at the end of each expansion (nearly a year for Warlords of Draenor), but I've now been continuously subbed for 8 years since Legion.