USB-C AA/AAA battery chargers?

iljitsch

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After earlier USB-C discussions, I'm wondering about chargers for rechargeable NiMH AA and AAA batteries. These batteries are still amazing work horses after many decades, having upgraded their mAh ratings and conquered their self-discharge issues more recently.

I currently have an Ikea charger that's pretty good, but that 230 V stuff (yes, that was a compromise between the mainland Europe 220 V and British/Irish 240 V but we didn't go back to 220 after brexit) is starting to annoy me fast.

So... any good AA/AAA chargers that take USB-C power?

Especially interesting would be ones that use PPS to deliver the exact right voltage.

The Wirecutter has a pretty nice recommendation but that one doesn't seem to be for sale in Europe.
 

Otto Levin

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After earlier USB-C discussions, I'm wondering about chargers for rechargeable NiMH AA and AAA batteries. These batteries are still amazing work horses after many decades, having upgraded their mAh ratings and conquered their self-discharge issues more recently.

I currently have an Ikea charger that's pretty good, but that 230 V stuff (yes, that was a compromise between the mainland Europe 220 V and British/Irish 240 V but we didn't go back to 220 after brexit) is starting to annoy me fast.

So... any good AA/AAA chargers that take USB-C power?

Especially interesting would be ones that use PPS to deliver the exact right voltage.

The Wirecutter has a pretty nice recommendation but that one doesn't seem to be for sale in Europe.
For a USB-C charger, check out the Xiaomi ZI5 USB-C Smart Charger or the XTAR VC4SL—both support AA/AAA batteries and USB-C input.
 

Andrewcw

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Highend chargers generally don't use USB power. So most highend fast chargers with analyzers are all wall powered. If you're not looking for battery snob levels with fine tuned variable power. Then you have.

Xtar BC8 , NC8 or ET4S the downside to these is there's only one charge rate. 500ma
or
Xtar the V series but these are Large as they were intended for Universal. But you get some variable power rates with appropriate power source.

Nitecore SC4 - Large because it is universal charging.

PPS Doesn't matter to the battery you are charging.. The charger itself just takes whatever power is available and then uses it's own charge circuit to charge your battery. So many of the USB chargers will be 5V/2A input and some of the ones listed above will require PD 3.0
 

Andrewcw

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The last post just reminded me. What exactly is the problem with your current charger? That it is 230V? As i mentioned in my previous response the charge circuit on the device dictates the what is fed to the battery. The power source is only relevant if it isn't feeding enough power to the charge circuit. In which case the Ikea charger might say 230V on the label. But the converter to DC power it uses internally probably will take anything from 200-250V and give it what it wants. Unless you're trying to liberate yourself from AC power plug adapter hell.
 

iljitsch

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Unless you're trying to liberate yourself from AC power plug adapter hell.
This. I currently have a UGREEN USB-C two-port charger behind my couch that I want to upgrade to one with more ports. That charger sits on top of an Eve Energy smart outlet that switches on when electricity is cheap. I want my battery charging to take advantage of that.

My current 230 V Ikea charger is mostly fine (it does emit high frequency noise especially when the batteries are fully charged) but "mostly fine" is not the same as "ideal" or even "pretty good" so hence my interest in something better.
 

w00key

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That charger sits on top of an Eve Energy smart outlet that switches on when electricity is cheap. I want my battery charging to take advantage of that.
What? You're talking about maybe 100 Wh a day if you charge multiple phones and a laptop on the cheapest hour, so at 10 cent/kWh difference, a whole cent of savings.

Optimizing heavy users like dryers (3 kWh per load), dishwasher (0.7-1.5, depending on program) or even oven usage (when to bake a bread from scratch) is much more important. Or heating, it uses 10 to 25 kWh a day here, running it more with higher outside temp (= higher COP) and extra long on cheap days matter a lot.
 

iljitsch

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What? You're talking about maybe 100 Wh a day if you charge multiple phones and a laptop on the cheapest hour, so at 10 cent/kWh difference, a whole cent of savings.
:)

You're not wrong. I'm now at 22 kWh for about 16 months so that's around 50 Wh. But the price difference can be bigger than 10 cents. Right now we have only 8 hours of daylight and barely any sun, but a good amount of wind. This means the wholesale spot price for electricity is only 1 cent or so in the middle of the night, which is about 16 cents after ~ 2 cents extra costs, ~ 11 c fixed taxes and 21% VAT. But around dinner time demand is high and I pay 35 cents.

So yes, less than a cent a day.

I think I saved more money by running as much stuff as possible when the electricity prices were negative a few times last year.

Optimizing heavy users like dryers (3 kWh per load), dishwasher (0.7-1.5, depending on program) or even oven usage (when to bake a bread from scratch) is much more important.
My clothes dry for free. 😇 But yes, dishwasher and laundry make the big difference for me. Sunday afternoon is usually the best time to run these. Charging an electric car from your own outlet is the big one, though.
 

iljitsch

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Ok, I ordered the LIMETA 8 Bay AA AAA Battery Charger, which can charge eight AA / AAA batteries at once, including strange types such as LiFePo4 ones. (I believe these are 3.2 V so that seems like a hazard, and at only around 600 mAh, how are these better than 3000 mAh 1.2 V NiMHs?? (I.e., just under 2 Wh vs 3.6 Wh...))

But the cool thing is that there is an app for monitoring everything over bluetooth. Apparently the app isn't that great, but as we all know, everything is better with bluetooth.

The IKEA charger does 4 x AA, which is not too bad, but can only handle 2 x AAA at the same time, which is not great. With this one, I could charge 8 AAAs at once, so that's pretty good. Especially as I have some stuff that takes 3 - 6 AAAs.

I also looked at lithium-something AA and AAA batteries with a USB-C port, but ultimately decided against those as the AAA ones have bad reviews and although a steady 1.5 V is good for some stuff I'm not sure it's worth the extra cost and hassle. I do like my 9 V batteries with micro-USB a lot, though.
 

w00key

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3.2 V so that seems like a hazard, and at only around 600 mAh, how are these better than 3000 mAh 1.2 V NiMHs??
Voltage. 1.2V NiMHs often "die" while there is plenty of charge remaining. With 3.2V and a very flat discharge curve you can power electronics far longer than 2-3x AA.

But 14500 is a weird size, 18650/21700 are the first sizes where lithium significantly outperforms NiMH. I hugely prefer 18650/21700 flashlights over older ones that take 1 or more AA/AAAs. So much power in a compact stick, it's crazy.
 

Andrewcw

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Ah so you went with an Amazon Alphabet Soup one.

Anyways the they make AA Lithium cells without USB ports built in which are higher capacity. Hence the charger does multiple formulas. But you shouldn't mix in those USB AA ones as they aren't designed that way. The 600 mah's you're seeing are probably on Amazon and early generation stuff they're dumping on consumers because it's Amazon.

Your realistic battery is this https://www.xtar.cc/product/xtar-aa-lithium-3300mwh-battery/ And they have a flagship cell.
But both heavily use marketing math to justify how they're way superior to NiMh.

So the 1.5v and 1.2v difference does have a difference in runtime. What they're trying to say is since they provide your device 1.5V it requires less amperage to run or something like that. But the reality is unless you're running a high drain device. It's not going to really matter. The Self discharge rate over a year will negate all of that providing you're using LSD NiMh. And 3000 mAh 1.2V NiMH's don't really exist except on the sticker. I think they should top out about 2700ish with non-LSD formulas. They haven't exactly been doing further research on these for small cell use as the ROI isn't there. And LSD's High Capacity really tops out at 2400mAh but the trade off is they have 1/5 the charge cycles.
 
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iljitsch

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Well, 1.2 V NiMs are well understood. Perhaps they don't do 3000 mAh as advertised. But still, good quality modern ones have 1900+ mAh capacities and quite low self discharge rates. Really the only downside is that you don't get 1.5 V when full so some stuff doesn't wort with them at all, or, more likely, say's they're dead after a very short time.

I got a couple of AA batteries that charge through micro USB but those were pretty bad...

Most of my stuff works on 1.2 V really well, but a couple of devices prefer 1.5 V.

An important consideration is whether a device reports depleted AA/AAA batteries or not. Having alkaline ones run down below minimum charge and then leak is not something you want. AFAIK NiMHs don't have this problem.
 

Andrewcw

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Well, 1.2 V NiMs are well understood. Perhaps they don't do 3000 mAh as advertised. But still, good quality modern ones have 1900+ mAh capacities and quite low self discharge rates. Really the only downside is that you don't get 1.5 V when full so some stuff doesn't wort with them at all, or, more likely, say's they're dead after a very short time.

I got a couple of AA batteries that charge through micro USB but those were pretty bad...

Most of my stuff works on 1.2 V really well, but a couple of devices prefer 1.5 V.

An important consideration is whether a device reports depleted AA/AAA batteries or not. Having alkaline ones run down below minimum charge and then leak is not something you want. AFAIK NiMHs don't have this problem.
NiMh will report low voltage because the discharge curve has a shallow curve compared to Lithium.
Where Lithium there is almost no way of making a low power indicator as the cut off is drastic.
Like 3.5-3.7 is Nominal and it goes to 3.489 and then straight to 0 output. And you can't use 3.5 as that's where 40% of the power being outputted is at. (Numbers as an example. Not actual numbers)
 

cogwheel

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Voltage. 1.2V NiMHs often "die" while there is plenty of charge remaining. With 3.2V and a very flat discharge curve you can power electronics far longer than 2-3x AA.
This is not correct.

Joules are joules. A 2500mAh NiMH AA has about the same capacity as a 950mAh LiFePO4 14500, and is the same size. Actual battery life depends on how the device is designed:
  • If a device is designed for alkalines, the NiMH will not last long due to the voltage not being high enough for much of the discharge curve (starting at 1.2V and drooping a bit, as opposed to starting at 1.5V and drooping more but spending a lot of time above 1.2V), and the LiFePO4 will set it on fire.
  • If a device is designed for alkalines and NiMHs (e.g. it uses an internal boost converter to deal with a wider range of input voltages), which lasts longer depends on the current demand:
    • Very low current, alkalines will last significantly longer because their self discharge is significantly lower than even low self discharge NiMH.
    • Low current, alkalines will last a moderate amount longer because their capacity is higher.
    • High current, NiMH will last longer because they lose significantly less capacity as loads increase.
    • LiFePO4 will still set it on fire.
  • If a device is designed for a wide range of input voltages, like 1.2-3.8V (i.e. NiMH to Li-NMC) using a more advanced internal power supply circuit, then what lasts the longest depends on load (NiMH and Li-Ion can both handle high power draws, alkaline still can't, but alkalines still have the highest capacity at very low loads) and whatever has the highest capacity in WH. There is also some efficiency gain if your input voltage is the same as or above the voltage required by your load, so for example the power supply in a LED flashlight driving a 3V LED will waste less energy in conversion when driven by a Li-ion than by a NiMH.
As far as why 14500 lithium chemistry family batteries exist, they're primarily for when you want to pull a lot of energy out of very small cells very quickly. Think tiny, high power flashlights and vapes. Both NiMH and Li-NMC can handle 2-3A loads, but 2A from NiMH is 2.4W, while 2A from Li-NMC is 7.4W, about three times as much power (remember the difference between power and energy here). More exotic variants of Li-NMC can handle even more current, and a properly made LiFePO4 is going to be more limited by getting the heat from internal resistance out than it is by the current delivery ability of the chemistry.

@iljitsch, you're correct that it's doubtful the higher power delivery from such a small battey (and thus device) is actually useful, though. A flashlight that can pull 7W out of a Li-ion 14500 is going to get too hot to hold in minutes to seconds, and either drastically reduce power draw (and thus light output) due to thermal throttling (very common), or just set itself on fire. A vape actually wants the heat given what it does, but vapes are inherently stupid to begin with.

NiMh will report low voltage because the discharge curve has a shallow curve compared to Lithium.
Where Lithium there is almost no way of making a low power indicator as the cut off is drastic.
Uh, what? Both chemistries fall off a cliff voltage-wise at the end of their discharge. For most of their capacity, NiMH actually has a flatter curve than Li-ion.
 

tucu

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About NiMH self-discharge: I got the impression my regular NiMHs didn't do any worse than my Eneloops advertised as low self-discharge. So I did some testing and it looked like the charge fresh and after a month didn't materially differ. So is this a solved problem?
Which brand/model?. Low self discharge/Pre-charged/Ready to Use batteries are very common now, including the pre-charged AmazonBasics and the IKEA Ladda
 
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w00key

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If a device is designed for alkalines, the NiMH will not last long due to the voltage not being high enough for much of the discharge curve (starting at 1.2V and drooping a bit, as opposed to starting at 1.5V and drooping more but spending a lot of time above 1.2V), and the LiFePO4 will set it on fire.
I'm comparing generic devices that take AA/AAA to ones that take 14500/18650 cells, at ~3.4 to 4.3V.

Generic AA/AAA devices are almost never designed for NiMH but you still stuff an Eneloop or whatever in it. It works, for a while, and depending on its voltage tolerance, pretty long to horribly short. It is super inconsistent.

Devices taking rechargable lithium cells are much more reliable.


When discussing the merits of a charger that charges NiMH, LiFePo2, NMC etc, it is assumed that you pair these batteries with devices designed for it. Often these accept one or the other, sometimes, in the Fenix LD12R flashlight, you can use 14500 lithium, alkaline and NiMH batteries. There you can see that a 800 mAh li-ion cell far outperforms 1.5/1.2V options.

Any device that takes 14500/18650, I'll buy that over one that takes 2-3x unspecified AA(A). I have had enough with replacing batteries super often, I keep charging them for toys, nightlights and IKEA Tradfri remote, the 2x AAA lasts a few months vs a year+ on a CR2032 coin cell.
 

tucu

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Ah, that explains it:

Does this mean some/many other brands are not equally low self-discharging?
It seems by now most production capacity has shifted to low self discharge (LSD) for AA/AAA. At these sizes, Non-LSD batteries seem to a niche for high capacity/high power uses (for example flashes)
 
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iljitsch

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Ok, the Limeta R8 Air arrived a little earlier, and there's a lot to like about it. The device itself is pretty basic with not the most ideal ergonomics in the world. For some reason, it bothers me that the batteries go in with the plus side pointing back/down. Each slot has a green LED that flashes during charging, also not something I like. And the batteries are packed so tight that it's not really possible to remove one sitting between two others.

However, the app is pretty nice:

IMG_0812.PNG

So you get to see the details for each battery, and afterwards you know how many mAh the charger put in and how long that took. You can aso adjust some settings:

IMG_0813.PNG

So if you select a battery chemistry you can then change the charge current between 0.1 and 1.0 A in 0.1 A steps. Leaving it on auto seems to mean 0.5 A.

So this means a choice.... 0.5 A means charging at about 6 mAh per minute, so that way charging a 2540 mAh Ladda should take around 7 hours... At 1 A one of those Laddas got a bit warmer than it'd like, though.

I think a good good setting might be 0.8 A, which the Eneloop AAA 750 mAh batteries are rated for when fast charging. And that's still a good bit faster for the AAs.

The app works over bluetooth and that seems to work well. Too bad though that the (presumably very rough) charging progress indicators don't update without going to the previous screen and then coming back to this one.

Not bad for 19 euros.
 

teubbist

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It seems by now most production capacity has shifted to low self discharge (LSD) for AA/AAA. At these sizes, Non-LSD batteries seem to a niche for high capacity/high power uses (for example flashes)
Not all LSDs are made equal however, and battery capacity plays a part in self discharge rate(and charge cycles). Higher capacity(for the same size battery), thinner insulators, higher self discharge as a rough rule.

Eneloops(and by proxy rewraps like Ikea LADDA's if they're still sourced from the same factory) have a well earned reputation for not outright lying about capabilities and being consistent. Not something I can say for the EBL's, AmazonBasics, etc. I've experimented with.
 
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w00key

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Eneloops(and by proxy rewraps like Ikea LADDA's if they're still sourced from the same factory) have a well earned reputation for not outright lying about capabilities and being consistent. Not something I can say for the EBL's, AmazonBasics, etc. I've experimented with.
LADDAs switched from made in Japan to China and are no longer budget Eneloops.

They seem to hit their capacity at least when charging with a smart(ish) meter that counts how many mAh has gone into it. No idea on longevity, even Panasonic Eneloops don't work very well / show low battery on more than half of my devices like Honeywell smart radiator knobs.
 

teubbist

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No idea on longevity, even Panasonic Eneloops don't work very well / show low battery on more than half of my devices like Honeywell smart radiator knobs.
That just means your devices are kinda shit and wouldn't use the full capacity of an alkaline. NiMH and alkaline have a voltage crossover at ~40% discharge(IIRC) of alkaline capacity, at which point NiMH maintains a higher voltage.

I also have a thermostat that doesn't work with NiMH as it expects >~1.35V, but also draws barely more power than alkaline self discharge. So it lasts over 5 years on a single set of batteries. Works fine with the Li-ion AA's(imuto brand) but jury is still out on discharge rate/lifespan.

Another example of bad devices is old camera flashes. They were notorious for being "done" with batteries that still had plenty of capacity left, even although as kids we took advantage of this by using the discards in our RCs.
 
I’m starting to see AAs that charge via plugging a USBC directly into them. That’s one answer to OP’s question. One pack I saw came with a 1-to-4 USB lead so that you could charge 4 from one USBC outlet.

I quite like the idea as you can charge them all from home then if you’re out and about you can do a quick top up of a single battery from any USB outlet.

Will be a while before I replace my Eneloops though.
 

w00key

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That just means your devices are kinda shit and wouldn't use the full capacity of an alkaline.
Yes thank you for repeating my point. I also have devices like Fenix AA flashlights that do use NiMHs correctly, down to ~1V. But on average? AA/AAA = meh at best. Any time a device has a USB chargable or lithium option, I'll pick it over AA.

It's also part self preservation, overdischarge alkaline and it WILL leak. Better just quit and let you replace a cell early.
 

w00key

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I also have a thermostat that doesn't work with NiMH as it expects >~1.35V, but also draws barely more power than alkaline self discharge. So it lasts over 5 years on a single set of batteries.
Mine are smart radiator servo valves so they power a decently powerful motor, plus 800 Mhz radio and sensors. Alkaline last longer than NiMH but not long enough for a whole heating season, depending on location of course.
 

iljitsch

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Mine are smart radiator servo valves so they power a decently powerful motor, plus 800 Mhz radio and sensors. Alkaline last longer than NiMH but not long enough for a whole heating season, depending on location of course.
I have these from Tado. Five of the six work really well on a couple of NiMHs. I recharged all of those before it got cold and they all show a completely full battery logo in the app. But the sixth one is probably an earlier version that Tado says you need to feed alkalines. And indeed the two eneloops have been dead for months or maybe even a year.

I tried to revive those with the new charger but first try it only charged them by 100 mAh in fifteen minutes and declared them full. But they wouldn't power a radio for half an hour even though full NiMHs get around 8 hours.

I then tried charging them again, and it charged one for 1:15 and the other 1:45. Is this normal for over-discharged NiMHs?

In general I find that this new charger doesn't charge my batteries to anywhere close to the rated capacity. So that either means they're not drained as much as I thought, or the capacity has deteriorated significantly. The former makes sense because my AAs are virtually always used two in serial, so over time, it's unlikely that they'll become depleted at the same time. The latter makes sense as these batteries aren't spring chickens.

As for the Laddas: the ones I have are 2450 mAh made in Japan. They must be at least five years old, probably a few years more. In my relatively limited testing I didn't see self-discharge after a month.

My main use of AA and AAA batteries is in smart home stuff, remotes and a radio. The nice thing about these NiMHs is that you can just go around the place and replace them all with freshly charged ones and AFAIK virtually no risk of leaking.

Non-rechargeables may be a better fit for many applications, but the downside is that you'll want to use them fully and thus need to replace them at inconvenient times. And you need to stay on top of that to avoid leakage.

If my camera flash doesn't flash quite as often with those LSD batteries I can live with that. I've never depleted a set of batteries using my Nikon flash. But then, I'm still a beginner when it comes to the subtleties of flash photography.