Trump team puts EV tax credit on the block, Tesla is on board: Report

Elon Musk is on record as saying it would hurt competitors more than Tesla.

See full article...

 

[Purpleivan]

The US market is still heavily dominated by ICE cars (about 7% of new car sales in Q2 2024) and removing the tax credit for EV's makes ICE cars a more attractive financial proposition to buyers.

The likes of VW, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, BMW etc. all sell ICE cars, but guess what Tesla doesn't sell. So, clearly this would be a net positive for Tesla's rivals.

Additionally, ignoring the ridiculous, Tesla is an AI company, not a car company nonsense, the sky high valuation of Tesla needs electric cars to be the dominant form of transport, because that's all they make. If ICE remains the dominant form of personal transport, then that makes Tesla even more of a meme stock.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

The US market is still heavily dominated by ICE cars (about 7% of new car sales in Q2 2024) and removing the tax credit for EV's makes ICE cars a more attractive financial proposition to buyers.

The likes of VW, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, BMW etc. all sell ICE cars, but guess what Tesla doesn't sell. So, clearly this would be a net positive for Tesla's rivals.

Additionally, ignoring the ridiculous, Tesla is an AI company, not a car company nonsense, the sky high valuation of Tesla needs electric cars to be the dominant form of transport, because that's all they make. If ICE remains the dominant form of personal transport, then that makes Tesla even more of a meme stock.

You're telling me Ketam-Elon's spiteful tendencies aren't actually serving his company's best interest? I... I need to sit down...

 

[spby]

"Ending subsidies will hurt other makers more than Tesla!"

"Can we also eliminate tariffs and allow Chinese EVs to compete against Tesla?"

"No"

.....because they are heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[Purpleivan]

TSLA goes up when he doesn't sell cars and also when he does sell cars, and doesn't go down for long even when he invites a bunch of unfuckable dweeb-lords to join him for evenings of make-believe in a purpose-built theme park staffed by "humanoid AI robots" and "robotaxis" no more autonomous than the motherfucking Chuck E Cheese band, so what the fuck does he care whether or not he's selling cars?

Eventually the meme stock shine will wear off, especially if Tesla starts reporting falling profits (due to a shrinking market), quarter after quarter.
The AI bullshit around Tesla is just that. They sell electric cars, so that's what they have to do to remain profitable.

 

[papito10]

Mark my words, we’ll see much more obvious attempts to steer money to Trump loyalists in the coming years. With Republicans blatantly applauding the efforts as being the spoils of winning an election.

I am someone who lived through the fall of the USSR. Once those who see the government as a feeding trough come, and public service as a concept comes to an end, that's when the pillaging starts.

We are going to see a version of "privatization" - redistribution of the nation's wealth to the few oligarchs who kissed the ring and those who happened to be close to the center of power.

Sure, the stock market and crypto will run on pure economic cocaine for a bit, but then it's going to come at us hard and fast.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Whats with everyone dropping the word "fascist" on everything these days? Please utilize a dictionary. Musk is a libertarian, thats like a complete 180 on the political spectrum.

He's libertarian for himself only, a fascist for everyone else.

 

[papito10]

America Defeats America

Companies like Hyundai that are building factories in the USA and creating domestic jobs are going to be harmed by this, and other companies will turn a wary eye to investing in America with such whiplash, mercurial behavior. Trump might be an idiot, so hopefully the collective legislative branch has a tiny bit more sense. Time for Republican senators to put on their big boy pants again and pretend to be adults in the room.

I think Trump learned the lessons from the first four years - never surround yourself with competent people. As much as the first pass was a physiological torment on all of us, I am realizing that was just a dress rehearsal gone wrong - this is the premier.

 

[Shadmeister]

I have not read any posts since the first page, so unsure if this has been mentioned.

Has anyone seen the film Idiocracy ?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
How far along in percentage terms is the US towards this films description of society in the US.

It has surely got to be mid-way, at least ?

 

[azazel1024]

It gets them money/influence and it's also for the benefit of the earth because those things are not in conflict.

I know US politics makes every thing feel super cynical and polarized, but pretty much the rest of the world agrees and cares about climate action and dissent and obfuscation about it is a significantly minority position. At this point I feel like Saudi Arabia cares more about climate action than the incoming administration.

edit: turns out Saudi Arabia does literally have a net-zero goal for the near future and actually has the cash to invest towards it, even given how ridiculous some of the kingdom's vanity projects are.

For a lot of countries it is about population happiness. Even dictatorships have to worry about that. Or you get Syria or Libya. I doubt many dictators really want that situation, even if they manage to cling to power like in Syria.

India is dealing with smog so bad in its capital it is mostly shutdown, because even healthy people can drop dead from it. China regularly has to shut down construction and power plants because of bad smog also.

When the environment is so bad healthy people are choking to death…

And most aren’t willfully stupid, so they generally accept climate change too. Places like Saudi Arabia, large swaths will be deadly without A/C large parts of the year by the end of the century. China and India have to deal with worsening monsoons and typhoons from global warming. Etc.

The greater good might have little to do with the goodness of the leaders hearts, but about staying in power with a content enough populace. But it is something for the greater good.

 

[Purpleivan]

He didn't get rich by actually selling lots of electric cars. He's rich because no one else sells very many electric cars.

Possibly in the US... currently.

In other countries Tesla has lost, or is losing that kind of market dominance.

Norway has the highest percentage of new cars sales that are EV's and they are neither have the highest selling model (Toyota BZ4X) or are the company with the largest percentage of sales (Volksvagen).

https://thedriven.io/2024/11/04/toy...ccount-for-94-pct-of-new-car-sales-in-norway/

Norway is an outlier in terms of the penetration of EV's in the market, but it's probably a reasonable indicator of where the international (i.e. not USA) market is headed. With melon head now cementing his association with Trump, many more people are likely to see Tesla a no go, in terms of an EV purchase, providing even greater headwinds for Tesla's internation sales.

Couple that with a lack of new Tesla models and the competition gaining experience as EV manufacturers, the future as a car company is not bright for Tesla and it can only survive on its meme stock status for so long. At some point falling profits (possibly losses) would result in layoffs and factory closures, whic are hard to hid. By that point major investors would be bailing on the stock.

I'm not talking about the next quarter, but given the direction things are taking, I wouldn't be surprised by a substantial drop in TSLA value in the next 1-2 years, if Trump pushes as hard against EV's generally as his words so far suggest he will.

 

[Frodo Douchebaggins]

Simultaneously virtue-signalling and making it clear you give zero shits about Palestinians is very liberal of you. Look at the stats before making bullshit claims. Even if every third party vote went to Harris she would have lost.

As long as democrats remain republican-light, they will not get the left vote and they don't fucking deserve it either. Obama bombed and deported more people than Trump and Biden combined if I'm not mistaken. Two sides of the same bloody coin.

At no point did I claim that the protest voters made any real difference. I'm only talking about the fact that their votes were effectively for trump.

And as for the Palestinians, I have empathy for them and wish they weren't getting fucked over by Israel (which as I stated elsewhere is a country that I don't consider an ally of the US, just a country that comes crying to us when they want something), but a vote for trump is a vote against the wellbeing of me and my loved ones AND against the wellbeing of the Palestinians. A vote for Harris would only have been a vote against the wellbeing of the Palestinians, which is terrible but the lesser of two evils.

 

[dikbozo]

So begins the era of oligarchs overtly feeding off the pluck trough in America. May we live in interesting times.

OH? These aren't interesting enough times? Your wish WILL be granted soon, friend.

 

[dikbozo]

He's probably 'ok' with this because right around the corner is some other 'cost cutting' measure that he gives to himself , i.e. a big chunk of government money to Tesla to do 'something else' better. He'll get his government handouts via privatizing something and making it worse instead of subsidies.

I suspect a large govt contract for many many vehicles, several of which have yet to be designed, to Leon's payoff. And don't forget SpaceX, they are gonna do just fine.

 

[dikbozo]

It's very optimistic of you to think we'll have a choice.

The next election will be between Eric and Don Jr.

Coronation, not election.

 

[josephhansen]

Looks like Biceps made some sock puppet accounts. The logic is sound- "I'm having no effect with my words, what if I created a bunch of other accounts to parrot me? That'll show em!"
Really, genius level strategy at work here

 

[Zeppos]

BYD recently surpassed Tesla as world’s largest EV maker.

China won.

They had a victory. I think the battle has just begun.

 

[Hopefully Smarter]

Thank you American voters for being the dumbest people on the planet.

Now bend over. daddy’s coming home.

-Donald T-rump

 

[Derecho Imminent]

Again... it's okay for Musk to get government subsidies, but no one else.

I 100% expect Tesla to win a huge government contract. Id invest but it would make me sick.

 

[Derecho Imminent]

Someone will write a series of books based on these times. It starts out a trilogy.
Loon
Loon Prophecy
Children of Loon
Then it will expand beyond the trilogy
Eternal Loon Emperor
Loon Apostates
Loon Final Chapter /?
The author eventually dies, but then the series is continued by his sons with prequels, analyses, and what ifs.

 

[Snark218]

Chinese EV’s in my country are price competitive with equivalent gas guzzlers right now.

Because the Chinese engage in predatory dumping.

 

[Snark218]

I am more than a little curious about how many OnionWars articles will get passed around as genuine on the right over the next few years. They’re not real good at satire or at knowing who owns the media they’re consuming.

I’m expecting the same kind of gullible ass-showing that the old Colbert Report caused them back in the day.

I can’t fucking wait. It’s going to be incredible, and InfoWars has been around so long I guarantee some of its old fans won’t get the memo.

 

[velofellow]

Simultaneously virtue-signalling

You keep using that word. I do not think you know what it means.

As long as democrats remain republican-light, they will not get the left vote and they don't fucking deserve it either. Obama bombed and deported more people than Trump and Biden combined if I'm not mistaken. Two sides of the same bloody coin.

Re: Drones: Guess again:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2...rump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

Also, it's pretty dishonest to compare an 8-year term in office to two separate four-year terms by two different men from two different parties.

 

[BernieW]

a vote for Harris would have been a pro hamas vote. Maybe most Americans don’t see Hamas as the righteous liberators of the Palestinian people. The elected representatives of Palestine has stated their goal is to see the destruction of the Israeli state. Kinda hard to have Peace with A government that says goal number #1 is to kill others. does this reflect well in democrats to be supporters of death to America (as seen at the dnc convention) and death to Israel? Perhaps most Americans don’t see Hamas as a righteous organization for peace.

It's quite a stretch of logic to say that, if you don't support the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people by the fascist government of Benjamin Netanyahu, then you do support the Hamas terroists murdering people in Israel. Both the government under Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas are commiting crimes against humanity. We can and should oppose both.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

We sure suddenly had a lot of accounts jump in and respond to the same Elon-criticizing post.

 

[RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha]

Again... it's okay for Musk to get government subsidies, but no one else.

DAFT-Dumb Americans For Trump basically put rapist/felon/thieves in office. Just wait till MTG gets nominated to Whip.

 

[josephhansen]

We sure suddenly had a lot of accounts jump in and respond to the same Elon-criticizing post.

People should really wait a few hours between switching sock puppet accounts, but when you have the attention span of a goldfish, I suppose that's far too much to ask

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

It's quite a stretch of logic to say that, if you don't support the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people by the fascist government of Benjamin Netanyahu, then you do support the Hamas terroists murdering people in Israel. Both the government under Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas are commiting crimes against humanity. We can and should oppose both.

Yeah it's disappointing how many accounts I've seen on Ars basically argue that if we keep 2.2 million people from starving to death then the terrorists have won. Fortunately there are many, many more who shared my reaction to the unfolding tragedy and assured me that I wasn't crazy, and the response isn't acceptable.

 

[Terakh]

FWIW, I’m in the province as well and recently bought, and the lack of a provincial credit was absolutely the deciding factor between gas and electric for me. $10k+ off (I forget the exact amount) on a $45-50k base price vehicle would’ve brought it close enough to gas options for me that I would’ve gone for it.

for a moment think about it - is it really the government credit that's the issue or the collusion and greed of the automakers?

the demand for ICE should have dropped noticeably, and so all those ICE vehicles would have dropped in price. But instead Tesla got to charge and earn a crazy premium, and the automakers decided to jack up the ICE prices instead, piggyback riding chip shortage - what shortage is there now. and now they blame inflation.

So if there was real competition and no collusion among themselves, there would be no need for rebates and the prices would have been more competitive overall be it ICE or EVs. So the rebate is just a myth that it will drive adoption - rebates just fills up their pockets instead as they will just jack up the price to maintain the price point they want.

 

[medfordjim]

This unfortunately plays into what I saw a lot of leading up to the election. Several people I know said "I'm tired of all these government handouts to everyone else. I don't want my tax dollars to help pay for my neighbor's electric car. His tax dollars didn't help pay for my (diesel) truck!"

This is exactly what they wanted: a reduction in taxes because they've got theirs and they don't want to give it away.

I suspect many of this "no handouts" crowd is claiming the mortgage interest deduction, which is nothing short of a handout as well

 

[Uragan]

Thank you American voters for being the dumbest people on the planet.

Now bend over. daddy’s coming home.

-Donald T-rump

Really? A rape joke?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Really? A rape joke?

I think it's a reference to Tucker's "you're going to get a spanking" comments. Which, granted, isn't any better.

 

[JustAdComics]

If only they would go after farm subsidies, pentagon spending, etc.

Now you’re just talking crazy talk! /s

 

[TVPaulD]

Space Ars commenters will be over the Moon when SpaceX becomes soon the exclusive launch and communications provider for the federal government.

[Extremely Eric Berger Voice]: Installing himself within the US Federal Government is just the kind of entrepreneurial free thinking that stuffy old space checkers would never be smart enough to think of. Sorry, victims, the smart take is to say that a little fascism and government corruption is worth it if the oversized candles keep on burnin'! Buy my book.

I really dunno what my media consumption strategy is going to be, come January. I like being an informed, engaged person, but four years of the clown show was enough for many lifetimes.

I'm tired, boss.

I feel ya so much on this. I already turned off most of my News service Notifications. Stopped opening my News App or looking at headlines. It's gonna be real bad for my mental health so I am just gonna be very sparing with my exposure to any of it. And it's not even my country.

Thrown almost all my attention into other things. Planning a trip to Tokyo. Working on my YouTube channel. It's going to be rough, I am cushioning it however I can.

I'm actually conflicted on this one, mostly because the SLS is the biggest hunk of shit program I can remember. Congress set NASA back decades with this piece of shit. They all just openly used it as a way to put jobs in their districts. Trying to make something good and efficient was the last thing on the planet any of them were concerned with.

You shouldn't be. SLS can be the greatest boondoggle of all time. If the cost of getting rid of it is a fascist dictatorship, build the shitty rocket.

Yeah, nope. Not even close.

Surveys show the majority of the voters considered only the "economy" and "immigration" as their priorities #1 and #2.

Many are under the delusion that Trump is an economic genius, because they are easily suckered by conmen, and simply can't be bothered to either understand or remember the underlying factors driving the U.S. and the world's economic landscape over the last 8 years.

And as for immigration, that was definitely an own-goal by the Democrats and the Biden administration. I never understood - and still don't - why Biden didn't clamp down on the border much, much sooner than he finally did (when it was too late).

To be fair, it quite probably wouldn't have mattered. Immigration is a ratchet issue. It's a bugbear of the far right and so there is no action that will ever satisfy the concern because the agitators will always call it a betrayal and demand more. Take a look at the trajectory of the issue in the UK before and after the 2016 EU Referendum.

Guys like you don't realize or care that the Trolley Problem was manufactured by a bunch of DNC hacks in a back room as they make bets to see how many people they can get you to run over, as they profit from the number of people you run over.

Holy Mask Off moment, Batman.

Where do you get that in this article?

I mean: I'm sure Musk has many examples of exactly this bad behavior; but I don't see that one of them is in him supporting an end to the tax credit. It may well be to benefit him, but cancelling it's not a subsidy for him (that I can see)

I'm sick of people asking this. It's literally the last two paragraphs of this not very long article.

Tesla was a major beneficiary of the new clean vehicle tax credit; under the previous scheme, an OEM was only eligible until it sold its 200,000th plug-in vehicle, at which point the credit available to its customers began to sunset. Tesla—which exclusively sells plug-in vehicles—was unsurprisingly the first to reach this threshold, at which point its EVs became more expensive than competitor cars. But the sales cap was eliminated under the new rules.

One might expect the company would be up in arms over this proposal. But according to Reuters, that's not the case—Tesla is in favor of ending the clean vehicle tax credit, and CEO Elon Musk has previously said such a move would be far more damaging to rival companies than to Tesla.

Tesla previously benefited from the tax credit during their ramp up. Now Musk believes it ending hurts competitors more than Tesla. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

I’m smart enough to know

Buddy, you think there's a chance a fascist who openly supports the escalation of a genocide you claim to oppose will somehow resolve it and make everything sunshine and rainbows. You're not "smart" enough to know anything. You're thinking of another 's' word.

Whats with everyone dropping the word "fascist" on everything these days? Please utilize a dictionary. Musk is a libertarian, thats like a complete 180 on the political spectrum.

No, he's a fascist. Trump is a fascist and he gleefully campaigned for and will now work under Trump. He's fascist, same as everyone who voted for Trump.

And the opposite of a fascist is not a libertarian, least of all the ridiculous right wing style of libertarian Musk pretends to be while (like all such self-styled libertarians) indulging in hypocrisy whenever libertarian ideas are inconvenient to him personally. He's a liar as well though, so of course he says he's a "libertarian" because the galaxy brained excessively online dweebs he typifies and whose admiration he craves like an addict all stupidly think "libertarian" is the magic secretly cool obviously best super smart boy good and perfect philosophy. Never mind the fact that the brand of libertarianism they mean is borderline incoherent gibbering nonsense even by the low standards of American right wing politics.

Congratulations, you fell for his bullshit. Have a cookie.

What exactly makes him as a facist? Is it his partnership with Trump?

One of the Fundamentals of facism is "... subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy." He certainly strikes me as an individualist.

He's a white supremacist who delights in boosting and supporting antisemitism and transphobia. He literally wore a MAGA hat. Do we need to draw you a diagram?

I cant help but notice the flock cameras that have gone up everywhere, kill switches on cars legisitlation, and initiatIves by the democratic secretary of transportation to track the locations of all vehicles for taxation. Riddle me this if liberals are actually different than conservatives in wanting a surveillance / authoritarian state, why have they worked so bard to track everyone and tax/control them? I guess wanting to right size government is facisist?

You know, it would have been a lot faster to type "I'm a big honking doofus" and it would have conveyed the same message. I thought you Trumpist Muskovites were all about "efficiency" now?

 

[fractalsphere]

So when is Musk going to divest himself of all the businesses he owns/runs? He's going to be in an appointed government position with access to insider info and the ability to craft policy advantageous to HIS businesses while screwing others. And people aren't calling him out on this unethical prep work?

 

[Hoptimist]

Agreed.


I’m not an expert on China, but I guess my response to this would be to ask why the US stopped wars of expansion after the post-WW2 economy really exploded into high gear here and apply a similar model to China.

At a certain point, it starts making more sense to dominate a region primarily economically and culturally rather than militarily, and China is solidly in that category. Are the Chinese going to embrace the US model of unilateral missile strikes or sending special forces units to go break some things an ocean away from home to flex their muscle? I don’t know. My general, inexpert sense of them is that seems kinda unlikely…but maybe?

I really can’t see China going hard on annexing North Korea or Laos or whatever, much less a bigger territory like eastern Russia or Japan. Why would they bother sending boots on the ground when they can keep sending suits carrying briefcases?

I think Taiwan is clearly a different thing because of their history with China, but I don’t see the same belligerent agitating from them that you see from Russia. Maybe if they let their economy implode like Putin has done to Russia they’ll need wars of conquest to keep the beast fed domestically, but other than that…I dunno.

Again, not an expert. I could be wildly off base.

As others point out, PRC clearly plans to dominate militarily. While they would like to get Taiwan by economic bullying (it's cheaper and the chip plants might be intact), they are clearly threatening a direct military assault and assimilation. I've lived in Taiwan. Lovely place with kind and friendly people - who consider themselves Taiwanese, not Chinese. PRC has never controlled Taiwan. Prior to Chiang Kai-Shek and the Nationalists taking over, Taiwan was a Japanese colony for many years. They have been dominated by foreign countries for centuries (often a war prize), and the indigenous people dominated by immigrants, mostly from the Chinese mainland. PRC has acted as an expansionist power, ask their neighbors (Tibet?) like the Phillipines about Chinese cultural and economic enrichment as opposed to their military ramming ships, including fishing boats. The PRC has turned tiny shoals into artificial islands to establish military bases to assert their sovereignty over international waters. The point is that PRC is an expansionist power that wishes to establish dominance in every way, and very much so militarily. Look up "nine-dash line". The US asserts similar dominance, but ceased being expansionist a while back. Consider the results if Puerto Rico, as an existing US territory, voted for independence; vs. a currently free and democratic Taiwan, if it were to vote to fully establish themselves as a nation.