We were among the panel of 86 international jurors for the annual award program.
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The Jaguar I-Pace wins World Car of the Year, World Green Car awards
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Hit the nail on the head on the charging.
When I first started driving the model 3, I had severe range anxiety & would charge to 100% when driving to LA.
However after using the superchargers the first few times, now its its like "pfft...80% charge is good enough"
The wait time on charging has been 20min to 45min depending on the charge left in the battery.
A good charging network is the key to owning an EV.
At times when no one is in the adjacent stall,I've had to run out of whatever place I was getting coffee/eating to avoid per minute idle charges.
I expect with the next firmware drop & the higher charge rate will make it difficult to take a break & leave the car for any length of time
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I don't understand why people keep comparing the I-Pace and the Model X. That's like comparing a Ford Escape and GMC Yucon. Even the Model S has more cargo room then the I-Pace. If you have to compare electric cars to each other and ignore gas car comparisons, then the Kia Kona would be a better fit. As much as Jag wants to call it a SUV, its actually a crossover.
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Yeah, the mediocre charging speeds and godawful efficiency are really a huge problem for the I-Pace as far as long distance driving goes. Makes the Green Car of the Year award a bit of joke, IMO.Here is the reality of charging an I-Pace in the US, from InsideEVs article:
This is off an Ionity 350 kW CCS in Europe, but applies to the US with the new Electrify America 350 kW EVSE's. Plenty of reviewers just took Jaguar's word on charging and didn't bother to check it themselves. And plenty more don't understand the problems of having inadequate charging for a long range BEV.
Now, the real deal is factoring in efficiency into charging. This graph is the grim reality for I-Pace owners:
How much of this was written up by the reviewers in the juror panel? It was all glossed over.
source: https://insideevs.com/jaguar-i-pace-tes ... t-charger/
Here's another look, calculated by Bjorn which has done a far better job reviewing EVs than anyone on that juror panel:
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-i-pace-opt ... way-speed/
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I'm less concerned with the location count, but the stall count.
Right now it might not be a huge concern because there isn't a lot of non-Tesla EV's on the road. But, once they start selling it's going to be a huge concern.
The other reason I feel rather vendor locked into Tesla is destination chargers.
Its so easy to simply skip a Tesla supercharger on a road trip, and simply charge at my destination which is usually a hotel.
Quite a few times I'll do that when I go from Seattle to Portland where I completely skip the Centralia supercharger. But, if I do decide to stop there I know I can easily charge because there are 20 stalls.
With Electrify America number of stalls is quite a bit less. Like the maximum I can find is 5+1 (the 1 is a CCS+ Chademo combo). That one is in Vancouver, WA.
Here is a good comparison.
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger
Note: Make sure to set it to only display "Site is Live" and remove the L2 options (that's the old slow charger).
Here is Tesla's network.
https://www.tesla.com/en_EU/findus#/bou ... ,&name=USA
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Bjorn's video's are quite funny
He will roast every car equally,, BMW, Tesla etc etc.
The channel is mainly Tesla centric probably due to car availability, but he has tested the i3, i8, leaf etc etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland
The "banana load" tests are worth watching
He will roast every car equally,, BMW, Tesla etc etc.
The channel is mainly Tesla centric probably due to car availability, but he has tested the i3, i8, leaf etc etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland
The "banana load" tests are worth watching
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It's a pretty inexpensive option for any EV to use a Tesla destination charger.
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Oh dear, I spoke too soon. The exact same centre console going blank issue is also common in the Velar, to the point where reviewers were encountering it on press cars.
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that's because H/K dealers are slime. many have been asking thousands over list price for a fucking Veloster. They were really trying to gouge people when the Stinger came out.
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I saw one drive on the highway last week so it's definitely shipping in Europe.
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Yeah, it's just started to trickle out to some customers in Europe. It's supposed to land in the US in the later half of the second quarter.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... -in-europe
As someone without a reservation I don't anticipate being able to get one in 2019.
The refresh of the S/X is supposed to happen around the 3rd quarter of this year so it should be a really interesting year.
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If I ever buy an EV this will be very important to me as I have to cross 3 causeways like the one in the photo before I get to a highway.
Image is not mine or of the actual road I live on.
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The score is probably average of many attributes. It's difficult to comment about it without knowing how the scores are calculated. Also if efficiency, battery size, emissions in manufacturing etc. were the only things that should count, than why even bother voting in this category since a lot of things can be calculated? Safety similarly can be just some Euro NCAP test instead of voting. A lot of attributes can be just measured. However the whole point of these awards is too see what journalists think about cars, even if the results are indeed silly. If you want something less subjective I'm sure you can find better rankings.
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Oh FFS stop being so pissy because they didn’t automatically give the award to Tesla.
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They are sort-of shipping in Europe. A lot of the ones you see will have plates from an Audi location on them. Apparently they are in such deep trouble with their battery procurement that they have started building cell-reduced packs and making Audi employees use them as company cars under their experimental license. In a few years these will either be upgraded and sold as used with a new battery pack or silently scrapped.
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For a car that wasn’t even introduced during the eligibility period. It’s like complaining that Star Wars didn’t win the Oscar for best film this year.
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Again, they never voted on a Tesla...EVER! The correct analogy is never nominating ANY Star Wars movies, for any category, ever.
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You have to admit that somehow that organization managed to sidestep the Model 3 in any year is fishy.
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That is only true if you don't count the S (World green car of the year 2013) and the X (finalist same category 2017)
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Ouch. Perhaps they're just not in Canada yet. Our charger network is a joke so maybe that has something to do with. Lots of Superchargers though.
Wow. My Civic Hybrid is on its last legs (rusted out if you can believe that) so I've been waiting for an EV. As much as I would like to I can't justify a Model 3, so I looked at the Kona but it was only 3k less for a lot less car. I still have a deposit on an eGolf, but it's not clear what the status is and if they'll switch it to the new platform.
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Let's see... highest MPGe highway at 123 and highest range of any BEV below $70k. The combination is tough to pull off due to the required higher pack size to pull off the all electric range:
Note where the I-Pace and the E-tron show up on this chart. Note that the I-Pace isn't much bigger than a Model 3. The E-tron is a bigger car, but roughly Model S sized.
source: https://insideevs.com/compare-plug-ins/
Best price per mile of EPA range:
source: https://insideevs.com/compare-plug-ins/
Top selling EV globally in 2018:
source: http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2019/01/gl ... -2018.html
Something is wrong when this vehicle isn't even a candidate in any year.
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Unless I'm mistaken, it is the same platform people were speculating Apple would sell. Magna had been shopping it around for some time.
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No conspiracy, just Tesla's poor timing. The rule is that to be considered cars must be sold in at least five countries, on at least two continents prior to 1 January of the year of the award.
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The watt-hours/mile numbers for the model 3 in the graph seem a little off, depending on when the measurement was taken & what firmware.
My average was 260-280 and I kept an eye on that as I have to charge at night & drive a fixed number of miles each day.
After the 2019.8.5 update, I did not get the increased mileage the RWD cars got (this is an AWD so its a 5% power increase)
However now I regularly average 230-248 wH/mile & I'm seeing similar reports on the forums.
The battery estimate is slightly off by a few miles as I'm definitely getting the full capacity
The wH/m estimate is dead based on the energy graph in the car on as I'm driving around.
I expect they tweaked something in the battery management as now the car is extremely efficient.
My average was 260-280 and I kept an eye on that as I have to charge at night & drive a fixed number of miles each day.
After the 2019.8.5 update, I did not get the increased mileage the RWD cars got (this is an AWD so its a 5% power increase)
However now I regularly average 230-248 wH/mile & I'm seeing similar reports on the forums.
The battery estimate is slightly off by a few miles as I'm definitely getting the full capacity
The wH/m estimate is dead based on the energy graph in the car on as I'm driving around.
I expect they tweaked something in the battery management as now the car is extremely efficient.
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Because the slope of the rear roof gimps the third row for all but the smallest of passengers (and reduces cargo handling). On paper it has the dimensions of a full size three row SUV, but for all practical purposes it's a two row SUV with extra cargo room.
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Good video review here. I was curious about the car
https://youtu.be/ddcUYmcs_RE
As someone else earlier pointed out, this is more in competition with the model Y whenever that is released.
I liked the front & the seats.
Back looks ugly as hell, what is with that spoiler.
Car handles seem to be clones of the model S
Interior has nice touches. Don't care for the excessive number of knobs etc or screen or vents
I don't like the dual screen layout on the model S either. The model 3's minimalist approach has ruined things for me & I really like their approach to adjusting airflow
Per the reviewer above, I was surprised to see the range drop to 150miles in cold weather
and charging time issues. Mentioned 13-18 hours to charge but "most families have 2 cars so that should not be an issue"
He also briefly touched on screen lag & reboots & I think this was a firmware issue.
Also mentions that Tesla never gives cars for reviews to auto reviewers, which lines up with what Gitlin mentioned on Ars in a different article. So maybe its just their policy (Tesla) & would rather rely on word of mouth, which seems to work for them
It will be interesting to see if there's any kind of teardown on the i-pace as munro & co did for the Tesla's & get an insight into their battery management systems.
https://youtu.be/ddcUYmcs_RE
As someone else earlier pointed out, this is more in competition with the model Y whenever that is released.
I liked the front & the seats.
Back looks ugly as hell, what is with that spoiler.
Car handles seem to be clones of the model S
Interior has nice touches. Don't care for the excessive number of knobs etc or screen or vents
I don't like the dual screen layout on the model S either. The model 3's minimalist approach has ruined things for me & I really like their approach to adjusting airflow
Per the reviewer above, I was surprised to see the range drop to 150miles in cold weather
and charging time issues. Mentioned 13-18 hours to charge but "most families have 2 cars so that should not be an issue"
He also briefly touched on screen lag & reboots & I think this was a firmware issue.
Also mentions that Tesla never gives cars for reviews to auto reviewers, which lines up with what Gitlin mentioned on Ars in a different article. So maybe its just their policy (Tesla) & would rather rely on word of mouth, which seems to work for them
It will be interesting to see if there's any kind of teardown on the i-pace as munro & co did for the Tesla's & get an insight into their battery management systems.
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I waited for several months for the Kona EV to go on sale. Went and test drove one, thought it was perfectly good. Said I wanted to order the top spec model in the color I wanted, dealer told me that won't happen because of restricted allocations from manufacturer. Then I said maybe I could buy the color that I didn't like as much that they had in stock, at which point they said I would have to pay a $5k markup on a $44k vehicle, so like $41.5k after tax credit.
At this point I said to them, you know you are asking like $50k for this car, which is an entirely different market than where it started, so why wouldn't I just go up to an i-Pace or e-Tron and get a much nicer interior? Or go buy a Model 3?
Drove a Model 3 next, liked it much more (faster, better handling, more interior room for front passengers, better charging network, faster built-in charger) and bought one despite having reservations about the company's future. It'll end up being $46.3k, so more than the Kona, but only because I purchased the long range AWD version.
At this point I said to them, you know you are asking like $50k for this car, which is an entirely different market than where it started, so why wouldn't I just go up to an i-Pace or e-Tron and get a much nicer interior? Or go buy a Model 3?
Drove a Model 3 next, liked it much more (faster, better handling, more interior room for front passengers, better charging network, faster built-in charger) and bought one despite having reservations about the company's future. It'll end up being $46.3k, so more than the Kona, but only because I purchased the long range AWD version.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
The performance trim, which is what he has listed I believe, is 450 HP total (dual motor). The motors are actually rated for more the limit is the battery. So more horsepower and better efficiency. Win-win. Oh and also better handling and better track times and faster charging and more range.
On edit: That was at launch. With the OTA performance firmware upgrade it is now 463 HP
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Per Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3
RWD - 283 hp
AWD - 367 hp
AWD Performance - 473 hp
No idea on the accuracy on the numbers, but I don't need mine to go any faster, it already has way too much torque in my opinion
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Yeah, the mediocre charging speeds and godawful efficiency are really a huge problem for the I-Pace as far as long distance driving goes. Makes the Green Car of the Year award a bit of joke, IMO.Here is the reality of charging an I-Pace in the US, from InsideEVs article:
This is off an Ionity 350 kW CCS in Europe, but applies to the US with the new Electrify America 350 kW EVSE's. Plenty of reviewers just took Jaguar's word on charging and didn't bother to check it themselves. And plenty more don't understand the problems of having inadequate charging for a long range BEV.
Now, the real deal is factoring in efficiency into charging. This graph is the grim reality for I-Pace owners:
How much of this was written up by the reviewers in the juror panel? It was all glossed over.
source: https://insideevs.com/jaguar-i-pace-tes ... t-charger/
Here's another look, calculated by Bjorn which has done a far better job reviewing EVs than anyone on that juror panel:
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-i-pace-opt ... way-speed/
On the other hand, it's still a greener car than basically any ICE car. It's also the greenest car Jaguar has ever made. If it expands the EV market, that's a huge win for the environment.
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I looked at the Kona as a second car & tried to spec one out last month on their website.
Fiddled with trim etc & thought about getting a quote...and....never heard back from the dealer
Wife walks in and sees me looking at the Kona & is not impressed. (I like some crossovers)
We did see one later on the freeway &
"Its too big a car for my needs"
"It COSTS WHAT ? " Why would we get that at THAT price, when we can get another model 3 & we already have a charger installed in the garage.
I don't know if the dealers are messing around, but they are shooting themselves in the foot & I have 0 desire to "Come and see what we have and waste 4 hours & then we'll talk"
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
Dealers are only getting like 1 or 2 vehicles a month. So why not charge $5K over sticker. You don't need to sell 50,000 of them. Just find one fan (sucker) willing to pay an insane amount and clear an huge amount of profit on that one vehicle. When Hyundai can make enough that there are a half dozen sitting on every lot and more coming each week they will be priced normally (a couple grand under MSRP minus any incentives) like any other car. Until then there is absolutely zero reason for a stealership to not well steal.
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You mean model X and Y. Not sure why you compare SUV's/XUV's to sedans when there are comparable models in the same class.
The E-tron is only slightly smaller then a model X, but actually looks much bigger since the X is more of a crossover, and the E-tron a proper SUV.
The Model Y will likely be similar in size to the I-Pace.
Have to say, everytime I see an I-Pace driving, I get jealous. First car since the Panamera that has this effect on me. But the flat butt ruins its style a bit, what were they thinking?
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You should never take pictures of cars with trees or poles sticking out behind them...
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You could order it on 3 continents by the end of 2018, though deliveries didn't start until late-January to mid-February.
So if Tesla had delivered one Model 3 in December in each of 2 European countries plus one car in Mexico, they would have qualified?
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