Old books with toxic dyes may be in universities, public libraries, private collections.
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That book is poison: Even more Victorian covers found to contain toxic dyes
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When people told me that reading the Necronomicon would be bad for my health, this wasn't what I expected.
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Starting to think that the only reason they didn't use things like plutonium or neurotoxins in their flatware, clothing, and other personal items was that they hadn't discovered them yet.
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I mean, we were making radioactive glow-in-the dark watch hands even after knowing they were radioactive. The girls painting the watch hands didn't necessarily know though, to disastrous consequences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls
Fiestaware had radioactive uranium in the "fiesta red" (aka orange) color up through the 1970s:
https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/consumer/ceramics/fiestaware.html
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHgT-COZiCA
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i mean "they" aren't too far removed from us. we were literally putting radium in paint into the mid-20th century, and don't forget about lead in paint and gasoline.
edit: dang, more comprehensively ninja'd about the radium by mere seconds from marsilies
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This is vaguely disturbing; I don’t have many pre-1900 books in my library, but I have a lot dating to the early twentieth century, and I’ve little idea of when the notion of “don’t use poisonous inks or dyes” (or, more likely, when non-poisonous dyes became cheaper than the poisonous ones) became commonplace. Of course, I don’t generally handle any given book longer than it takes to read it or use it as a reference, so the actual risk should be fairly low, I think.
The list of books at the poison book project is short, which would be reassuring if I had more of an idea about what proportion of books in their collection this affected. (Or if it covered more than just the arsenical green pigment.)
Anyone know an inexpensive but reliable mass spectrometer? I suppose I could volunteer to have my books scanned by a local university if someone is looking for a senior project.
The list of books at the poison book project is short, which would be reassuring if I had more of an idea about what proportion of books in their collection this affected. (Or if it covered more than just the arsenical green pigment.)
Anyone know an inexpensive but reliable mass spectrometer? I suppose I could volunteer to have my books scanned by a local university if someone is looking for a senior project.
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I think the most toxic pigments had fallen into disuse by the 20th century.This is vaguely disturbing; I don’t have many pre-1900 books in my library, but I have a lot dating to the early twentieth century, and I’ve little idea of when the notion of “don’t use poisonous inks or dyes” (or, more likely, when non-poisonous dyes became cheaper than the poisonous ones) became commonplace. Of course, I don’t generally handle any given book longer than it takes to read it or use it as a reference, so the actual risk should be fairly low, I think.
The list of books at the poison book project is short, which would be reassuring if I had more of an idea about what proportion of books in their collection this affected. (Or if it covered more than just the arsenical green pigment.)
Anyone know an inexpensive but reliable mass spectrometer? I suppose I could volunteer to have my books scanned by a local university if someone is looking for a senior project.
Still, I wouldn't go breathing dust from anything old and green, red, yellow, orange, white...
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Portable XRF is where it's at. Non-destructive and rapid diagnosis of virtually all metals. A couple of them are not very sensitive (notably lead), so have detection limit issues, but are good enough for determining the presence / absence in the pigment. Final concentration data is best determined with other techniques, as in the article. Analysis time is typically seconds, so you can get around a lot of samples fairly quickly.This is vaguely disturbing; I don’t have many pre-1900 books in my library, but I have a lot dating to the early twentieth century, and I’ve little idea of when the notion of “don’t use poisonous inks or dyes” (or, more likely, when non-poisonous dyes became cheaper than the poisonous ones) became commonplace. Of course, I don’t generally handle any given book longer than it takes to read it or use it as a reference, so the actual risk should be fairly low, I think.
The list of books at the poison book project is short, which would be reassuring if I had more of an idea about what proportion of books in their collection this affected. (Or if it covered more than just the arsenical green pigment.)
Anyone know an inexpensive but reliable mass spectrometer? I suppose I could volunteer to have my books scanned by a local university if someone is looking for a senior project.
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And here I am, just finishing up from scraping 100 year old twice painted wallpaper from my bedroom. I am going to work under the assumption the paint encased whatever nastiness was in the paper. As long as there wasn't lead in any of the paint....
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When I think of the hazardous chemicals used in every day life in past times, I wonder what people a couple of hundred years from now will think of us and what we do.
Probably something like “plastic everywhere. Were they TRYING to kill themselves?”
Probably something like “plastic everywhere. Were they TRYING to kill themselves?”
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I was unaware of this alias, but I like it. From now on, I’m calling him lead chromate.
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i mean...
"they just kept spewing greenhouse gasses into the air!"
we keep that up and there may be an unrecognizable peoples hundreds of years from now.
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I'd never considered this angle before, but if you extrapolate old books to, well, old everything, isn't this kind of inherent in collecting anything antique these days?
And Ms. Oullette while I read anything you write for Ars, I would've really liked to see the Fahrenheit 451-ish angle here, or at least a mention of what's being done to preserve the information in these books as more and more of them are likely to be taken out of circulation.
And Ms. Oullette while I read anything you write for Ars, I would've really liked to see the Fahrenheit 451-ish angle here, or at least a mention of what's being done to preserve the information in these books as more and more of them are likely to be taken out of circulation.
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NGL that I was googling bookbinding terms to see if they any vestigial use of "furl" from stitching and scrolls for a pun.
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Sounds like they could be rebound. Also scans can be made available to the Internet Archive.
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There is nothing wrong with a little bit of poison on the edge of the pages, especially when a book threatens to strike the devilish spark that would set a new fire to the whole world, and laughter would be defined as the new art, a mockery of God's truth, and the cause of all failures when combating the enemies of the Christian faith and woke ideology.
-- Jorge de Burgos, 14th century; also many Republicans of the 21st century hard bent on banning books like all Fascists tend to do eventually
-- Jorge de Burgos, 14th century; also many Republicans of the 21st century hard bent on banning books like all Fascists tend to do eventually
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You can still buy uranium glassware, I believe. Actually, our national CRBN protection department had an article about it. The risk they found from normal use of it was pretty minimal, IIRC – quite a bit less than using glassware with lead and similar toxic heavy metal glazes.
I have some thorium glass radioactive photography lenses in my collection. Thorium glass was used back then for its superior refractive index properties, which made it possible to make lenses with better resolution and less optical aberrations back then, before other options like single fluoride optical crystals became readily available.
The only downside is that 50 years later, the glass had turned a very strong yellow from all the radiation‑induced crystal lattice electron (?) dislocations. Which can be cured by strong UV light, as the dislocations are only temporary.
I've had them thoroughly tested by our national CRBN office, including full gamma spectrometry and all of that (yes indeed, there are gamma photons from some of the fission byproducts, not just short‑range alpha and beta radiation commonly cited), and the figures were pretty fine.
The total dose was perfectly fine. Even if one were to use the full‑time year‑round.
The only real danger was in using them as an eye‑piece as a full‑time camera operator or similar – the short‑range alpha particles would indeed mess up your eyes (the particles normally stopped by the camera and viewfinder between the lens and your eyes in normal photography use).
But no real danger when used as camera lenses as intended. Though that may vary by the actual lens – I believe some specialised ones like the Aero‑Ektar for military aerial surveillance could have been quite a bit hotter than the consumer ones.
Still, I don't really keep them under my mattress
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There's also a lot of vintage lenses around with radioactive thorium glass elements, like the Super Takumar. I have one of them - it's because of it that I recently learned that inexpensive Geiger counters are now readily available to the public.
https://camerapedia.fandom.com/wiki/Radioactive_lenses
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There was a related storyline in Doc Martin where the son was removing green wallpaper from his mom’s bedroom and it made her ill and then affected her sanity from arsenic poisoning. Sometime living where the history is has consequences.
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I literally just put down a book published in 1877, so this article is bizarrely relevant to my… interests?
ETA: I spent an over decade handling ancient objects and manuscripts, so I assume I’ve already had my share of exposure to lead, arsenic, and other fun elements, anyway.
ETA: I spent an over decade handling ancient objects and manuscripts, so I assume I’ve already had my share of exposure to lead, arsenic, and other fun elements, anyway.
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I do wonder whether those radioactive lenses might be able to scramble firmware at close enough range.
I have a Takumar 50mm 1.4 (verified radioactive) M42 on a Canon EF adapter, which I occasionally used with a Speedbooster on a Panasonic G7. The Tak ended up stored mounted on the Speedbooster for most of the pandemic, until I upgraded to a Panasonic G9. Upon first test, the camera crashed Commodore 64 style (colored confetti on the camera screen). IMO that seems a bit extreme for just mildly outdated firmware on an otherwise known compatible camera, using a lens that worked fine on the G7.
A firmware update fixed it, but I now keep the Tak in a separate box from any electronics.
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I have never seen that quote before, but surely Umberto Eco was aware of it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the primary inspiration behind The Name of the Rose.
Edit: How dumb am I? I just realised that Jorge de Burgos (Jorge de Borges? He hides in a labyrinth?) is the protagonist of TNOTR. Iw as confused by the attribution to the 14th century.
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vedekhaliwell
Ars Praetorian
Important to remember--they did not know these things were poisonous in the 1800s . Heck, we didn't even remove lead from gas until the 1970s and lead from paint until 1978. These chemicals are in guiding, and in every paint prior because they made the colors brighter and adhere better without flaking or peeling. You are likely to have them in any pottery prior to 1980 that you might have; since it was in the glazes and paints in use.
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I'd follow the advice of my fellow commentators to test books.This is vaguely disturbing; I don’t have many pre-1900 books in my library, but I have a lot dating to the early twentieth century, and I’ve little idea of when the notion of “don’t use poisonous inks or dyes” (or, more likely, when non-poisonous dyes became cheaper than the poisonous ones) became commonplace. Of course, I don’t generally handle any given book longer than it takes to read it or use it as a reference, so the actual risk should be fairly low, I think.
The list of books at the poison book project is short, which would be reassuring if I had more of an idea about what proportion of books in their collection this affected. (Or if it covered more than just the arsenical green pigment.)
Anyone know an inexpensive but reliable mass spectrometer? I suppose I could volunteer to have my books scanned by a local university if someone is looking for a senior project.
But being a contractor/repairman I get to old houses often, with amazing books, relics and tech from over 100 year old as of 2024 - I tested some more common printed materials with chemical tests kits and they do reveal lead, mercury and arsenic. Maybe you can try one of these kits. NOTE: they do leave traces after testing, so we only tested more common books, newspapers and magazines. Oh an P.S: old houses got lead. A lot of it. Test incoming water as a side project.
P.P.S excellent article by Jennifer as always
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A reliable pXRF costs upwards of $10,000 at the very least, the last time i looked. Mass spec could be even more expensive. But you don't really need mass spectrometry for heavy metals. Portable X‑ray fluorescence should be good enough for any of that. And pXRF come in a easy to use "gun" form – just point it at the sample, get a reading.This is vaguely disturbing; I don’t have many pre-1900 books in my library, but I have a lot dating to the early twentieth century, and I’ve little idea of when the notion of “don’t use poisonous inks or dyes” (or, more likely, when non-poisonous dyes became cheaper than the poisonous ones) became commonplace. Of course, I don’t generally handle any given book longer than it takes to read it or use it as a reference, so the actual risk should be fairly low, I think.
The list of books at the poison book project is short, which would be reassuring if I had more of an idea about what proportion of books in their collection this affected. (Or if it covered more than just the arsenical green pigment.)
Anyone know an inexpensive but reliable mass spectrometer? I suppose I could volunteer to have my books scanned by a local university if someone is looking for a senior project.
DIY XRF are certainly possible and doable for much cheaper, but I am not really messing around with radioactive materials in my kitchen, no thanks!
The good news is, some environmental NGOs offer pXRF as deposit rentals, or they'll test your samples for a really small fee at their place. Or try your public hygiene office, they might have a similar pXRF rental programme already to test for lead and bromines or similar.
I actually looked into renting a calibrated pXRF when the latest (substantiated) scare about lead chromate in Indian spices surfaced. The price would have been pretty manageable for a few spice sellers or similar, if resources were pooled together.
Incidentally, the oldest books in my vast home library come from 1866. Might be a good time to have them tested myself. I'll probably try to piggyback onto some uni programme, though. Worked good enough when I needed the gamma spectrometry of a few rare thorium radioactive photography lenses – the relevant national CBRN office was quite interested enough in them to just do it at their own expense, just to expand their own data collection.
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"cooper acetoarsenite" Copper acetoarsenite, aka Paris Green? https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Copper-acetoarsenite
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These chemicals regularly used to turn up in foodstuffs. The much downvoted joke about booklickers is probably a pretty accurate comment on the actual hazards of using or storing these old books. Ironically, probably the only people at any danger from this are book burners, if they are doing it in a confined space.
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"The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco or its movie adaptation.
Poisoned forbidden books
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Something different than the classic poison pen letter... I see that people have already referenced Umberto Eco's famous 1980 novel (and film), The Name of the Rose.
Yet another reminder to handle classic manuscripts and books with gloves.
Yet another reminder to handle classic manuscripts and books with gloves.
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You don't sleep with books? What do you read when you wake up in the middle of the night?
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Well, the Super Takumar 1.4 and similar ones with thorium glass in them do give out both alphas, betas and gammas. As I had it tested, the thorium glass element was the rearmost one or somewhere close to the rear.
Though the overall dose was pretty small, IIRC. I'd have to find out the report from them (on paper), sorry.
IIRC none of that matters with film, and none of that matters to your health (unless you use it as an eyepiece 24/7), but I can imagine a very remote, but potentially plausible situation where it could degrade digital sensors.
After all, the same crystal dislocations happen in the Si chip substrate as in the glass itself.
Plus digital sensors use RGB filtered pixels, where the filters above each pixel are organic dyes, usually. Which do have some long‑term issues with energetic particles hitting them as well, potentially fading over time.
Very anecdotally (just from what I heard from some pros), the DSLR cameras of certain pros who had them scanned daily by high energy X‑rays did seem to show some slightly faster deterioration than others according to them (the pros who e.g. covered the parliament proceedings daily, having their cameras scanned ten times a week 365 for five the average 3‑5 year DSLR lifetime, minus the holidays).
it's all anecdotal and I don't have any reliable paper on that, unfortunately. But not entirely inconceivable. But still take it with the appropriate dose Na & Cl isotopes ;-)
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Most librarians, and paper conservators will advise you not to use gloves when handling old books. The pages are brittle, and the loss of fine control makes it easier to accidentally tear them when turning. Also, the oils from your hands actually help prevent the paper getting even more brittle.
You certainly shouldn't wear what looked like a falconry gauntlet that Sean Connery was wearing.
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OH! Here I thought there was just a ton of 19th century literature about a guy everyone referred to as that "toxic arse, Nick."
I invite them to burn these books and breathe deeply of the cleansing smoke to revel in their act.
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