Red Bull makes up its mind: Liam’s out, Yuki’s in for Japan
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"For three of its championship years, Red Bull built the fastest car in F1, and Verstappen's teammate Sergio Perez scored race wins and plenty of points to help the team secure the constructors championships in 2021, 2022, and 2023."
Correction, Red Bull did not win the WCC in 2021, Mercedes did.
2021 Constructors Championship
Mercdedes: 613.5
Red Bull: 585.5 pts
www . formula1 . com / en / results / 2021 / team
Correction, Red Bull did not win the WCC in 2021, Mercedes did.
2021 Constructors Championship
Mercdedes: 613.5
Red Bull: 585.5 pts
www . formula1 . com / en / results / 2021 / team
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Misleading headline. He is not really being fired but is being demoted/relegated to the junior team.
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I've always said that the #2 seat at Red Bull was a poisoned chalice. Liam Lawson just added further confirmation.
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It's far from conclusive, but when I looked at the RBR website the "One suit. One winner. Are you in?" link had a picture of both drivers in it, and now it's only got Max on it.
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LordSlinkySupreme
Smack-Fu Master, in training
I think this is it.
The car is a mess, and it’s clear Newley’s successors don’t know what they’re doing with it.
Verstappen is just so ungodly talented that he’s effectively covered the engineering team’s asses by being able to drive anything. But even he was getting vocal about the car being fucked last season.
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Horner and Marko should be the ones with their feet to the fire after this debacle. They're the ones that went with Liam over Yuki and proven talents like Carlos Sainz. They put Liam into this situation and now they're showing no confidence in him after two races. All of the decision making here has been terrible.
Fundamentally, this car just isn't very good. Max can make it work because Max is a special talent. But the sheer number of otherwise good drivers that have failed in it demonstrate where the problems really are. Hell, even Max thinks the car isn't good and outright said that Liam will be faster in the Racing Bulls car. I suspect Max would be, too: at this point it just looks like a car with a much wider operating window. The fact that the car is getting worse year over year is something Horner should be accountable for as Team Principal.
TBH, it feels like they know the car is bad and are protecting Liam by letting Yuki do the rest of the season. They know the car won't get better (since they're on to 2026) and they have shown that they don't have much faith in Yuki and don't actually care about him long term (otherwise he'd have gotten that seat to start the year and had a pre-season in it). But they can let him run this season out then go "well you didn't do good enough, bye" and move on while rumor has it taking some Honda money for the seat this year.
Because that's the only outcome of this debacle if Liam is faster than Yuki in Japan, which is definitely possible.
Fundamentally, this car just isn't very good. Max can make it work because Max is a special talent. But the sheer number of otherwise good drivers that have failed in it demonstrate where the problems really are. Hell, even Max thinks the car isn't good and outright said that Liam will be faster in the Racing Bulls car. I suspect Max would be, too: at this point it just looks like a car with a much wider operating window. The fact that the car is getting worse year over year is something Horner should be accountable for as Team Principal.
TBH, it feels like they know the car is bad and are protecting Liam by letting Yuki do the rest of the season. They know the car won't get better (since they're on to 2026) and they have shown that they don't have much faith in Yuki and don't actually care about him long term (otherwise he'd have gotten that seat to start the year and had a pre-season in it). But they can let him run this season out then go "well you didn't do good enough, bye" and move on while rumor has it taking some Honda money for the seat this year.
Because that's the only outcome of this debacle if Liam is faster than Yuki in Japan, which is definitely possible.
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Max is the best driver of this decade and even he can't get it to wins anymore. He also actively complains about its issues (and how it's gotten worse) and has said straight up that Liam will be faster in the Racing Bulls car.
aka: It's a bad car.
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Two races is nothing.
If RB is willing to swap after only two races, they are admitting their driver selection process is broken.
If RB is willing to swap after only two races, they are admitting their driver selection process is broken.
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If you want international cars and drivers on road courses, but with actual passing on track and drivers who are actual team members, I highly recommend WEC and IMSA.
Endurance races are a bit much, but you just sorta treat them like March Madness, it's on all day in the background until something big happens.
Edited to add the official webpages:
https://www.imsa.com
https://www.fiawec.com
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F1 is a business where Lawrence Stroll is the most employee-friendly owner.
I feel like that says everything about F1, that when Stroll came in one of his big revolutions has been "what if people also want non-monetary things".
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While I don't have inside information on RB, I feel comfortable calling them idiots. The car is the problem, not the driver. If Yuki drowns (and I hope he doesn't, I do like him and want him to succeed) then they will look even dumber. Guess we'll see. Where would RB be without Max? Would the car have a completely different development direction, or would they have a bad car and no WDCs?
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Somewhat parallel to this, I am feeling increasingly good about Sainz being at Williams where they actually appreciate him. He won't be fighting for wins this season like in the Ferrari, but the future is looking bright.
His interview during testing was remarkably honest and insightful. He didn't know yet where the lap time was going to come from with this new car. With all the fine margins in F1, it takes time.
His interview during testing was remarkably honest and insightful. He didn't know yet where the lap time was going to come from with this new car. With all the fine margins in F1, it takes time.
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It seems unsupportable that Horner skipped over the RB 'junior' team when there was an opening on the A team. Going with a rookie further undermines the engineering, because you have a rookie voice for input during the crucial offseason. And what is the point of the B team, if you don't promote successful drivers?
As you point out, crazy decisions have been happening and they lost Newey. Verstappen won the championship but lost a lot of races as last season continued on. It doesn't look good right now for Horner and Red Bull.
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Yes, RB put themselves in this situation. However, I think that decision needs some context.
This time last year (roughly), RB were coming off the single, most dominant season in F1 in '23. Then in '24 alarm bells started: Adrian Newey was making rumblings of retirement, Christian Horner was in the midst of his sexting scandal, and you had Toto openly making googly-eyes and meeting with Joss Verstappen in the paddock. Plus there's Max, a generational talent who's made no secret that he'll leave F1 on his own terms and wants to do other things while he's still in his prime. (Max has since clarified that he'll be seeing his RB contract through to its conclusion.)
All of this would put RB into full on panic mode, as they court sponsors, the lifeblood of the sport. So with a car that is already Max-designed -- and utterly desperate to keep him -- it's of no surprise that they doubled down in their design trajectory. Hell, if Max asked for a chair massager and cupholder in the car, RB probably would have done it.
Clearly a desperate move, to stay on this trajectory, of continuing to develop the car this way, but had RB lost Max, their lineup would be Yuki and Checo...in a still Max-designed car. That would have been order of magnitudes worse, and cost them tens, if not hundreds of millions in dollars from sponsors abandoning the sinking ship. Plus the embarrassment of losing to Max every race for whatever team he bolted to.
Was it a bad, long-term move? Absolutely. But I think in context it's probably the only move RB felt they could make to keep their star driver in-house for as long as possible. F1 triage.
Promoting Yuki to a brand new, difficult to drive car -- at his home race -- isn't going to do him any favors either. Smarter move is to let Lawson do Japan -- a track he knows well -- and the other 2 races after, analyze, and then make the move in the break before Miami.
Again, occasionally F1 races cars!
This time last year (roughly), RB were coming off the single, most dominant season in F1 in '23. Then in '24 alarm bells started: Adrian Newey was making rumblings of retirement, Christian Horner was in the midst of his sexting scandal, and you had Toto openly making googly-eyes and meeting with Joss Verstappen in the paddock. Plus there's Max, a generational talent who's made no secret that he'll leave F1 on his own terms and wants to do other things while he's still in his prime. (Max has since clarified that he'll be seeing his RB contract through to its conclusion.)
All of this would put RB into full on panic mode, as they court sponsors, the lifeblood of the sport. So with a car that is already Max-designed -- and utterly desperate to keep him -- it's of no surprise that they doubled down in their design trajectory. Hell, if Max asked for a chair massager and cupholder in the car, RB probably would have done it.
Clearly a desperate move, to stay on this trajectory, of continuing to develop the car this way, but had RB lost Max, their lineup would be Yuki and Checo...in a still Max-designed car. That would have been order of magnitudes worse, and cost them tens, if not hundreds of millions in dollars from sponsors abandoning the sinking ship. Plus the embarrassment of losing to Max every race for whatever team he bolted to.
Was it a bad, long-term move? Absolutely. But I think in context it's probably the only move RB felt they could make to keep their star driver in-house for as long as possible. F1 triage.
Promoting Yuki to a brand new, difficult to drive car -- at his home race -- isn't going to do him any favors either. Smarter move is to let Lawson do Japan -- a track he knows well -- and the other 2 races after, analyze, and then make the move in the break before Miami.
Again, occasionally F1 races cars!
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Really incompetent management. If you've decided to swap them, you swap them. Boom. Done deal, give press conference saying you wish everybody well, move on, blah blah. If you've decided not to swap them, you stand up and say we're not swapping them, full confidence, blah blah. If you haven't made up your mind you keep your mouth shut and tell everybody in the organization to do the same. Allowing all this public speculation to happen is the sign of an organization that doesn't know what it is doing, is at war with itself, or both.
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From what I see of F1, Yuki has a long career ahead of him:
1. He's good enough for the midtier and maybe getting better.
2. He's got a nation's whole loyalty, and they're on the calendar.
3. He's got a personality and creates content for him employers.
I'm guessing, based on hints, that he's not as serious and Red Bull knows it and so went with Liam - but the standards for serious are very high indeed for F1 drivers. It was still an unforced error, clearly, to pass him over.
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I will be somewhat amused if the car is so terrible, and the RedBulls so easy to drive, that Tsunoda somehow ends up finishing behind Lawson for the first race.
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That's pretty much what Horner did after China. Who knows where the leaks are coming from or their sources, including this article.
There's also a world where you intentionally leak the info to gauge the response and factor that into your decision making. I'm not saying that's happening here, but if RB reads that enough people a) think this is a bad idea and b) will harm Yuki, they might "reverse course" on a decision that has officially not been made.
/shrug
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Counterpoint, Verstappen supposedly likes the "pointiness" of the RB... or maybe that amounts to more spin by the team's media crew to cover a disappointing car with Max's skill?
Anyways, here's hoping the best for both Tsunoda and Lawson. May Horner and Marko get their deserved share of added scrutiny for their mess, their (supposed) backroom headbutting, and sloppy way driver decisions seem to be handled.
I think he's become a better driver than many give him credit for. I'm happy to see him at least have the opportunity vs waiting out an unceremonious end to his time within the team(s).
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There's a bit more at stake this time, which is reinforcing what you've said.
Previously when so dominant, they could more or less rely on winning the constructor's champioship even though one of their drivers was underperforming. Now, the competition is a lot better and it looks like McLaren are going to be hard to beat. Even Merc and Ferrari (when they get their act together) can't be assumed to be behind Red Bull.
Even if Verstappen does start winning races and gains Driver's Championship points, it's unlikley that the team would get the Constructor's title if they have a second driver who is anything short of top notch. They lost it last year for that reason, even though MV took the driver's title.
So, things are well set for Red Bull to do badly in the Constructor's championship. That would be incredibly bad news because the sponsor - Red Bull - might decide they don't want to fund a team coming in at a distant 4th.
Thanks to the spending restrictions, they can't just develop their way out of trouble and rely on the car to elevate a mediocre driver up towards the front. They need a second driver who can wrestle the car towards the front and help ensure that the team manages at least 3rd if not 2nd in the Constructors title. They need their second driver being able to routinely finish at least 4th or 5th in races, just to get a 3rd place in the constructors title whilst allowing for various dnfs, mishaps along the way.
And, they've chosen Yuki Tsonoda for that challenge. At his home circuit. In a car that's clearly a ******* to drive. He has my every sympathy.
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It seems crazy that after all the support for Checo, they're giving Lawson a grand total of 2 races to make up their minds, but there are murmurings that Honda is kicking in some extra cash to get Yuki in the seat for Suzuka.
I do disagree with the statement that Ricciardo's time at Renault was mediocre though - his first season maybe, but his second there was arguably one of his best in F1. I'd also argue that his first season at McLaren was closer to mediocre than disastrous (Monza, and he largely matched Norris in the back half of the season). I do agree that the follow-up was certainly one of the worst (and confusing) seasons I've seen from a once great driver.
I do disagree with the statement that Ricciardo's time at Renault was mediocre though - his first season maybe, but his second there was arguably one of his best in F1. I'd also argue that his first season at McLaren was closer to mediocre than disastrous (Monza, and he largely matched Norris in the back half of the season). I do agree that the follow-up was certainly one of the worst (and confusing) seasons I've seen from a once great driver.
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You mention Sainz; he got a 10th place in Shanghai. Sure, it's a bit artifial because of the Ferrari and Gasly disqualifications, but he's got points. In a Williams. And his teammate got solid points in a Williams too, twice running. Ok, so Williams have a way to go, but that teams must be pretty pumped given their recent history and marked improvement in form, which is probably making it a whole lot happier place to be.
If he'd wound up in RB with that car, he'd probably be regretting it. He might just be thinking he's had a lucky escape!
Though he won't be enjoying the gap Albon seems to be able to pull on him.
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I think that if I were in Tsunoda’s position right now, I’d be trying to refuse the move to RBR. The Red Bull is clearly a pig to drive, and if he moves to RBR and makes a hash of it, he might have difficulty finding work with another team.
Although of course there are rumours of him going to AM once they become the works Honda team.
Although of course there are rumours of him going to AM once they become the works Honda team.
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Even Schumacher didn't demand an undriveable car. No one would mistake Eddie Irvine for a world-beater, but the year Schumi was out for six races with a broken leg, Irv the Swerve might have won the championship, if Ferrari hadn't... well...
Ferrari, Ferrari never changes...
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Keith Tanner
Ars Tribunus Militum
Red Bull is a lot more than the sponsor of the team. They own it along with Racing Bulls, aka VCARB. In order for Red Bull to leave F1, they'd have to put two teams up for sale.
At least Yuki can't do worse than Liam. And Liam can't do any worse at VCARB. The only direction is up. Fingers crossed for Yuki.
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Red Bull's leadership needs to go. Horner's an asshole, Marko is a racist asshole, and they let the king of the assholes, Joss Verstappen, hang around even though he does nothing but cause trouble.
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This is getting really in the weeds for an ars discussion, but since Ditrich Mateschitz passed the structure of the RB junior program has changed significantly. F3 and F2 are obnoxiously expensive and are almost entirely pay-to-play. RB was in many ways the best opportunity for many drivers if they didn't already come with their own backing, which meant that it was more of a meritocracy than the rest of the field. It did come with heavy strings attached (very long term lockins, ownership of marketing rights, etc.) but better than needing to be, for example, the nephew of an oil baron to be able to move up the ranks.
My understanding (from the outside) is that the junior development faucet has largely been turned off and it's becoming a bit of a mess that reflects the overall mess that seems to be taking hold in the powerstruggles after Matechitz's passing.
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Neither does Max Verstappen, but both do like their cars to oversteer. A certain Jos Verstappen struggled badly as Schumacher's teammate.
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I'm afraid you are right. Tsunoda will not go down quiet though. If he "fails" as well, I think that Horner has to go.
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I hope Yuki gets promoted to finish out the season at RB. At this point it doesn't hurt any of the driver's careers, as the car is clearly undrivable. While the engineers made some mistakes, I like how the wind tunnel and CFD allocations have clearly been helping to level the field.
I do wish the teams had more testing days though. Hell ban using aero rakes on extra days, just let the drivers spin laps in the current car.
I do wish the teams had more testing days though. Hell ban using aero rakes on extra days, just let the drivers spin laps in the current car.
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Honestly at this point it might be best for RedBull to temporarily swap Tsunoda & Max to see if the by now battle tested (has beaten out every teammate RB has thrown at him) and experienced (5 years) can make anything out of the RedBull. And what Max can extract out of the RacingBull. If Yuki can't while Max can the RedBull is IMHO clearly inferior to the RacingBull and it would be best for them to place Max + Yuki in the RacingBull. Oh the irony.
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BananaWarrior
Ars Centurion
All of it stems from the internal conflict of Mark Mateschitz and Helmut Marko being in one camp and Horner and Yoovidhya in the other.
Probably why Newey left too, he saw the writing on the wall.
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@Keith Tanner is correct. Red Bull isn't the sponsor, they're the team owner. They can't just walk away from the team and try to find someone else to back.
They also aren't pouring in a lot of funding these days, the team is mostly self-sufficient. So Red Bull paid a lot to get the team, and then prop them up over the fest few years, but now it's basically free advertising for them. They could always change the name and try to dissociate themselves from the sport if they didn't want the baggage, or something came along that force them to pull out, but it's not a sponsorship contract in the same way that Stake/Kick sponsor the Sauber team.
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Do you enjoy anything competitive? Or is it not constructive?
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No sympathy, 99% of all racing drivers never even get a chance to drive in F1. He's lucky to have even gotten this far.
I don't buy the arguments that the car is undriveable by anyone but Max - since Danny (who nearly matched Max in points in their time together), they've only had Checo (who it seems was pretty washed up by the end) and a swathe of Rookies.
Yes, the people they've tried can't drive it, but I'd wager drivers of the calibre of Lewis, Charles or Lando would readily get plenty out of it. Maybe not as much as Max - who seems to be a generational talent - but certainly better than the Rookies. Alas, we'll never know.
I don't buy the arguments that the car is undriveable by anyone but Max - since Danny (who nearly matched Max in points in their time together), they've only had Checo (who it seems was pretty washed up by the end) and a swathe of Rookies.
Yes, the people they've tried can't drive it, but I'd wager drivers of the calibre of Lewis, Charles or Lando would readily get plenty out of it. Maybe not as much as Max - who seems to be a generational talent - but certainly better than the Rookies. Alas, we'll never know.
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Sainz at Williams also is doing wonders for the reputation of Alex Albon. There was a view that he was just demolishing poor teammates, but Carlos is a real benchmark and he is measuring up.
That said, I was going to write a comment using the phrase “poisoned chalice” for the second Red Bull seat, but someone beat me to it. I fear for Yuki. On the other hand, it’d be hilarious if he came in and started getting podiums. The whole Red Bull academy is a shitshow and it would be obvious had they not got lucky with a phenom like Max.
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