New and upcoming cooling releases (heatsink, fans, AIO)

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  • #202
    IMHO: Noctua’s fans are superior to everything. Noctua’s heatsinks are very good, but there are other good brands, and the differences aren’t that large. There is only so much you can do. In my current box, I have some cheapskate heatsink but with 2 Noctua 120mm fans instead of the one included. Works great, in particular cooling very well without revving the fans to the max.
     
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  • #203
    I suppose you're paying for the rock-solid QA, long term support, and all the R&D for Noctua to chase what is probably the practical limits of air cooling using the traditional "heatpipe & fin stack" design. Also, from the TPU review:

    Where the NH-D15 G2 does have an edge over the competition is in the overall noise profile. While it is not the quietest cooler at max RPM, the noise output is a deeper sound of air rushing through the heatsink. I noticed no rattling, strange tonal hums, or other oddities that might prove distracting to silence-focused enthusiasts. Essentially, the overall noise of the cooler, while noticeable, is far more pleasant across the entire PWM range.
    Click to expand...

    I suspect that the higher end BeQuiet! coolers can probably save you a fair few quid whilst still being almost as good thermally and acoustically.
     
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  • #205
    Back from Computex a month ago, Thermalright cooler roundup.

    https://gamersnexus.net/coolers-new...ach-cpu-coolers-working-royal-pretor-130-more
    Pricing seems crazy, apparently Thermalright being vertically integrated + willing to take a hit on profits?

    Some of the video roundups as much as they annoy me, are useful. Hardware Canucks in particular around the 6:00 mark says that Thermalright claims a 4 to 6 degree improvement on new Royal Pretor 130 Ultra vs. the Phantom Spirit 120 EVO despite same mounting system and minimal changes in the base heatsink (so much louder/faster fans is unsaid...).

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjTGaamdnIA


    Gamers Nexus article above has the video embed below, but unlike Hardware Canucks who just covers air cooling, GN also covers the AIO's.

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AJL3G-O_Fg


    Quick summary of some of the new heatsinks:

    • Peerless Assassin 140, 159mm tall, looks like 6 heatpipes, dual 140mm fan tower cooler, thicker fin stacks than the original Peerless Assassin 120 too. Feels very much like an NH-D15S G2 competitor to me.
    • Royal Pretor 130, two 28mm thick fans, one fan is 130mm, one 120mm. It will retail for $50. Claims vs Peerless Assassin 120 at 300W, 4 degree improvement (!). GN speculation is due to larger fan and also fans being capable of higher static pressure.
    • Royal Pretor 130 Ultra, transcription is funky but sounds like might be 7 heatpipes instead of 6 of the regular Royal Pretor.
    • Royal Knight, slim dual tower 120mm heatsink with especially slim front fin stack and slim fan, offset for memory clearance. Described as Scythe Fuma 3 competitor.
    • Burst Assassin 120 Evo, single 120mm tower with dual fans, $25.
    • Burst Assassin 120 Visiion, same as above but add an LCD, price is $50.
    • Peerless Assassin 90 SE, small single tower 92mm fan (says 90mm, but 92mm seems equally likely given that is a standard fan size?) cooler, $20 target.
    Please keep in mind many of the observations I am making above are incomplete and taken purely from the two videos, for proper context I would watch the videos.

    Given the Noctua NH-D15 G2 has a 1.2 degree C lead over the Phantom Spirit 120 EVO at 225W and 45dBA in Techpowerup's AMD testbed, plus a bigger 2.5C lead on their Intel testbed (at 250W and 45dBA) review, which is into lower-end 360mm AIO territory, this looks very interesting indeed.

    Also side commentary: as a Noctua NH-D15S owner who just retired it in favor of a Phantom Spirit 120 EVO, I am quite excited at all the recent progress in air cooling lately.
     
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  • #206
    https://www.igorslab.de/en/dowsil-tc-5550-gelid-gc-4-and-snowman-mtgs-in-the-thermal-paste-test/
    DOWSIL TC-5550 looks like the best paste so far, although the previously reviewed Thermalright TF-8 is about as good and somewhat more versatile.

    https://www.igorslab.de/en/noctua-n...-paste-is-the-best-the-most-expensive-a-flop/
    Also probably old news, but Gelid GC-Extreme's current formulation is worse than the previous one. (aka: crap that's what I bought after I used up my last tube of Kyronaut, and literally just used last week because my order of Thermalright TF8 was two days late.)
     
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  • #211
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  • #212
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  • #214
    https://www.igorslab.de/en/thermalr...ductive-paste-from-screed-to-bunker-concrete/
    Thermalright thermal interface material roundup, TF4, TF7, TF8, TF9, TFX thermal pastes.

    Seems like TF8 is still optimal, TF9 and TFX perform better but are difficult to apply and in the case of TFX, maybe too coarse for its own good. Am kind of curious to pick up some DOWSIL TC-5550 if that ever becomes available in small quantities.


    Also:
    https://www.igorslab.de/en/5-phasen...p-vs-pcm5000-pcm8500-und-thermalright-heilos/
    Honeywell PTM7950, OEM PCM5000, PCM8500, Thermalright Helios, and PTM7950SP tested too. Unsurprisingly the 0.25mm thick Honeywell PTM7950 was the best thermal pad tested, although the OEM PCM8500 was pretty close.
     
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  • #216
    https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-performance-deliver-the-same-amount-of-brown
    Given how much Noctua‘s new products have been costing, this seems almost reasonable:

    The original NF-A14 at 1500 RPM when used for case cooling could only achieve about 68 CFM (cubic feet per minute) while the new NF-A14x25 G2 can reach up to 78.5 CFM. When compared for water cooling with a radiator in noise-normalized cooling performance, the original NF-A14 managed 29 degrees Celsius, while the NF-A14x25 G2 managed to squeeze it even farther, down to just 26.8 degrees Celsius.
    Click to expand...
     
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  • #218
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    teubbist

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  • #219
    der8auer review of Corsair A115, Endorfy Fortis 5 RGB, Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE, Silentware Titan, Noctua NH-D15 G2, Deepcool Assassin IV VC Vision.

    Final tables at 18:19 if you want to skip the preamble.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh34GhbCyqk


    No real surprises: Noctua still king unless you like noise, Thermalright ridiculous value, Corsair still sucks. Deepcool's win with uncapped fans is interesting, if vapor chamber bases continue to be iterated on, but doesn't strike me as compelling over Noctua especially when you also factor in Noctua's proven record on longterm support on their products.

    But you should probably just buy a Thermalright.
     
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    Mental Gear Reduction

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  • #224
    N00balicious said:
    Mentioned in this thread about a year ago. The radiator MUST be mounted above the CPU its cooling. Also note the Noctua NF-A14x25 G2 PWM (140mm) fans used.
    Click to expand...
    That looks fantastic; the benefits of an AIO without the unreliability. You can't have a pump failure if you don't have a pump. And my current AIO is mounted just like that anyway. I wonder how hot the CPU needs to be to evaporate the coolant?

    I also wonder if it can lose coolant over time. That would be the only major failure mode, unless you can refill it. Noctua's fans are nearly indestructible; barring physical damage or a manufacturing error, they'll probably outlive the buyer.
     
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  • #225
    https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ermalright-assassin-spirit-120-v2-plus-review

    Thermalright Assassin Spirit 120 V2 review. Definitely the very budget end at $22, FSP MP5 and Scythe Mugen 6 competitor depending on the CPU used.


    I also wonder if it can lose coolant over time.
    Click to expand...
    Definitely can as the coolant will permeate through the hoses.

    I wonder how hot the CPU needs to be to evaporate the coolant?
    Click to expand...

    I assume the design parameters here are a lot tighter given the need to vaporize the coolant and then condense it without any other mechanical aids - very curious myself on the performance/performance design targets.
     
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  • #228
    Thing is, AIOs (like all commercially sold products) are built to a price, and as long as they perform acceptably for the duration of the warranty period, nobody cares if they die from coolant loss after that.

    You absolutely could build an AIO that would basically lose next to no fluid, but it would be too expensive and you'd go out of business from lack of repeat customers...
     
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  • #229
    steelghost said:
    Thing is, AIOs (like all commercially sold products) are built to a price, and as long as they perform acceptably for the duration of the warranty period, nobody cares if they die from coolant loss after that.

    You absolutely could build an AIO that would basically lose next to no fluid, but it would be too expensive and you'd go out of business from lack of repeat customers...
    Click to expand...

    How reliable are AIOS now a days? The last time I remember using a AIO was back with a AMD processor with 3 cores (the ones that had the 4th core locked), think it was AMD Phenom II X3?
     
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  • #230
    I don't recall any systematic issues the past few years, plus they're affordable enough now (not like before when they were generally a premium item).

    OTOH, who knows given how many products are very new to market.

    IIRC IceGiant has the longest time in the market for thermosyphons in consumer space, their latest claims lifetime service life, which, even if not worth anywhere close to lifetime in the end, is still an ambitious promise most don't make.

    https://www.icegiantcooling.com/products/icegiant-titan-360-tr
     
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  • #231
    They're.....fine, I suppose? I have never used one, I don't like the fact that they are inherently disposable for exactly the reasons I talk about. My PCs are either Proper Custom Loops or aircooled.

    I am actually quite interested in the thermosyphon idea because it removes at least one point of failure, and depending on the pipe material and coolant, potentially both. That would be excellent (if the performance is there) because in theory it could run basically forever, barring fan failure (which is not likely when talking about Noctua fans).
     
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  • #233
    continuum said:
    I don't recall any systematic issues the past few years, plus they're affordable enough now (not like before when they were generally a premium item).

    OTOH, who knows given how many products are very new to market.

    IIRC IceGiant has the longest time in the market for thermosyphons in consumer space, their latest claims lifetime service life, which, even if not worth anywhere close to lifetime in the end, is still an ambitious promise most don't make.

    https://www.icegiantcooling.com/products/icegiant-titan-360-tr
    Click to expand...

    Thermosyphon tech seems interesting! Thank you for the link. A concern with aios is how long the life span of the pump has.
     
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    mpat

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  • #236
    Mental Gear Reduction said:
    That's not universally true with all hoses and all coolants, so unless you have specific knowledge otherwise, I don't think the question can yet be answered.
    Click to expand...

    It actually is true with all hoses and coolants - but it can be very very slow. In practice, a high quality hose can have permeation so low that it doesn't matter for keeping the level inside high enough for years and years, but it is never considered safe from the perspective of not having any of the liquid on the outside. To get to that level, you use tubing - copper, for preference.

    Source: part of what I do involves certification for engine rooms for marine applications. Fuel lines over a certain length will be pipes, not hoses, because even a minute amount of fuel on the outside of a hose will propagate a flame.
     
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  • #238
    Roundup of CPU coolers from hardware canucks showing which ones do best on AMD vs Intel platforms:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-8PZKcMYg

    I have a soft spot for Scythe, so it's a little disappointing they're still optimizing for Intel, despite a significant part of their market (i.e. people who build their own PC's) choosing AMD.
     
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  • #240
    grommit! said:
    Roundup of CPU coolers from hardware canucks showing which ones do best on AMD vs Intel platforms:
    Click to expand...
    Oooo, good find.

    AMD dual-CCD results around the 16:15 mark with a Zen 4 (7950X), the Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE still holds up near the top even vs. the larger Thermalright Frost Spirit 140 V3, the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 is about the same as the Frost Spirit 120 V3...

    Results for Intel in there too but I won't rehash those, starts around 18:40.
     
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