I mean would the trajectory of MS have changed at all if Ballmer wasn't buds with Gates?
MSFT CY21Q4 Results are in
- Thread starter Horatio
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I think so. Ballmer was the first "business" person hired. He shaped a lot of MS and was as ruthless or moreso than Gates.
Ballmer is severely underrated in the tech world. I think people forget all the products and services he fostered that Microsoft is making huge money on today and prefer to remember the failures and the DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS cringe video. Sure he was no Steve Jobs, but I put him pretty high up on the pantheon of tech CEOs. What product or service did Nadella create from scratch this is a multi-billion business today? All I've seen from him is good stewardship, massive acquisition spending(that would make Ballmer blush) and riding Ballmer's coat-tails.
Do CEOs create new products?
They certainly have to sign off on them. But most of them don't micro-manage things like the UX like the way Jobs did. I don't think Cooks does, he has to approve them or not.
More than likely, they have product manager and strategy types who pitch new products and services, new strategies and the CEO will either endorse or not.
I think cloud was a pretty obvious direction for MS. Probably his business strategy people pointed out that Amazon and Google both had huge growth trajectories for their cloud products.
We can talk about mobile but by the time iPhone was shown to the world, MS as well as most other companies were caught flat-footed. There was no way to dump Windows Mobile and then turn quickly to multitouch OS and devices right away, even if they wanted to.
They just had to hope that Windows Mobile had a big installed base and it would hold up, so no sense in dumping that in 2007. But they did get out the first release of Windows Phone in 2010, not bad, having to start over from scratch. It was the obvious call, to at least develop WP in case the iPhone paradigm took over. But still too late, though people remember some Wall Street forecasters saying WP would have the largest market share by 2015?
So maybe there were some execution issues that I'm not recalling. Too much apps built up by Apple and Google in just a couple of years for WP to overcome.
Nadella doubled-down on the cloud and if Ballmer remained, he probably would have done the same, probably gave up on WP by the time he departed.
But I disagree, MS was going to be huge once they got Office and Windows going, whether or not Ballmer was there. If not Ballmer some other exec would have reaped those stock options and would be at Clippers games now.
They certainly have to sign off on them. But most of them don't micro-manage things like the UX like the way Jobs did. I don't think Cooks does, he has to approve them or not.
More than likely, they have product manager and strategy types who pitch new products and services, new strategies and the CEO will either endorse or not.
I think cloud was a pretty obvious direction for MS. Probably his business strategy people pointed out that Amazon and Google both had huge growth trajectories for their cloud products.
We can talk about mobile but by the time iPhone was shown to the world, MS as well as most other companies were caught flat-footed. There was no way to dump Windows Mobile and then turn quickly to multitouch OS and devices right away, even if they wanted to.
They just had to hope that Windows Mobile had a big installed base and it would hold up, so no sense in dumping that in 2007. But they did get out the first release of Windows Phone in 2010, not bad, having to start over from scratch. It was the obvious call, to at least develop WP in case the iPhone paradigm took over. But still too late, though people remember some Wall Street forecasters saying WP would have the largest market share by 2015?
So maybe there were some execution issues that I'm not recalling. Too much apps built up by Apple and Google in just a couple of years for WP to overcome.
Nadella doubled-down on the cloud and if Ballmer remained, he probably would have done the same, probably gave up on WP by the time he departed.
But I disagree, MS was going to be huge once they got Office and Windows going, whether or not Ballmer was there. If not Ballmer some other exec would have reaped those stock options and would be at Clippers games now.
Wasn't Nadella head of Azure? He certainly did have a huge influence on what probably rescued Microsoft.
Also, WP didn't have many technical execution issues, but they did have some business execution issues and Nokia made some braindead choices as well.
Also, WP didn't have many technical execution issues, but they did have some business execution issues and Nokia made some braindead choices as well.
Peak WP8 had features that have yet to be matched. Cortana's hands free mode for things like responding to texts especially
LOL...first time I read that, I read it as "Also, WordPerfect didn't have many technical execution issues, but they did have some business execution issues" and then I saw Nokia and went back and read it again as Windows Phone.
Damn...I am old.
Speaking of old...is the original Surface (table) dead?
Did it get rebranded and adapted to be the Surface Hub?
Did it get rebranded and adapted to be the Surface Hub?
What about that folding device they showed in a video and everyone wanted, around the time the iPhone or iPad came out and some people wanted that to be Microsoft's answer.
They did come out with a folding device a year or two ago didn't they? But it was priced way too high to be a high-volume product?
They did come out with a folding device a year or two ago didn't they? But it was priced way too high to be a high-volume product?
I think you are talking about the Courier.
They didn't come out with the Surface Duo a couple of years ago. THe first one was pretty crappy in many ways. It got delayed a year but they didn't upgrade during that time, so it came out pretty mediocre. They fixed a bunch of that with the Surface Duo 2, but I haven't had a chance to play with one yet. I just got my phone recently so won't be upgrading for a while, but if they continue making it, I could see a Duo 4. They look pretty sweet in pics and video.
To be clear, Surface Neo was the latest in the long history of tilting at the digital "moleskine" windmill, Panos Panay most recently playing the role of Don Quixote. Arguably, Apple's Knowledge Navigator was the first concept video that was never going to be a product way back in 1987—love the bowtie on the digital assistant, looking forward to the reboot with Matt Smith. The Courier was Microsoft attempting to steal dumb concept videos from Apple in 2010. The Surface Neo was supposed to be running Windows 10X, the latest next-gen operating system to be abandoned by Microsoft. Neo was announced shortly before the pandemic, so possibly the first victim of COVID. I shit thee not, Windows Central peeps cite sources saying it was a mobile product in a suddenly non-mobile world.
As for the Surface Duo, the third generation has been "postponed" until "sometime" in 2023, absolutely hasn't been cancelled, not even remotely, full faith and confidence of Nadella, no retrenchment this time.
As for the Surface Duo, the third generation has been "postponed" until "sometime" in 2023, absolutely hasn't been cancelled, not even remotely, full faith and confidence of Nadella, no retrenchment this time.
I would say they set priorities. Is new product X allowed to use the Super Bowl ad time? Is it allowed to use the most treasured brands (Mustang)? Do existing products have to add compatibility with the new product even if it wasn't anywhere on their roadmap or intended purpose? Those are decisions that a favored product will say yes to an an unfavored product will not.
And in 2033 you'll still be saying that Surface is about to be cancelled. It's been 10 years so far.
I for one am waiting for Windows AMR-based digital moleskine, capable to run Android apps. Everything about it speaks to me
Am I alone?Surface has shown a remarkable amount of resilience considering it's the one Microsoft vanity project that doesn't seem to fit in with Nadella's vision at all. Perhaps there is still some kind of plan to turn Surface into something relevant, or maybe they're just keeping it around as a mostly harmless sop to Panay's ego. Who knows? It doesn't make much external sense to me that Surface hasn't been shitcanned. But then not everything has to make sense.
Well...there is this:
$2B revenue in 2014 to $6.5B in 2021 which is like an 18% CAGR. $6.5B puts the Surface division in the Fortune 500 itself. How exactly is a Fortune 500 size department a "vanity project"? How is it not "relevant"?
Pennies on the dollar to a company the size of Microsoft. Pretty much the definition of a vanity project. But fortunately for Panay, a harmless one.
Ah, so you believe Surface Duo will not be cancelled and will be released next year. So noted.
How else do you get someone to take charge of Windows? That job is a career killer at Microsoft. Just ask Steve Sinofsky or Terry Myerson.
I run Windows 11 in a VM for a VPN because for some reason I've never been able to pin down doing so through macOS intermittently fails. I also spend time with Windows 11 because personal technology interests me, but I prefer iOS on an iPad Pro, followed by macOS.
But what does that have to do with anything? I mean, to turn the question around, do you own stock in Microsoft? I do. Does that mean my interest in the company's products and services trumps everyone who does not? I don't believe that, nor do I believe criticism of the company's products or services should be limited to those who own and use them.
As an aside, I've said in this very forum that the Surface Book keyboard was the best portable keyboard I'd ever touched. That doesn't mean I didn't think the device itself was a poor design, it was terrible, problematic thermals, docking mechanism failure, and a tablet crippled by abysmal battery life. It seems Microsoft ultimately agreed because they replaced it with a new 2-in-1 in which the tablet is crippled by abysmal weight—four pounds! I'm trying to imagine holding that thing however I want as long as I want like I do a 1.5 pound iPad Pro... or do I have to actually own a four pound tablet and use it before I can imagine what muscle fatigue feels like?
But what does that have to do with anything? I mean, to turn the question around, do you own stock in Microsoft? I do. Does that mean my interest in the company's products and services trumps everyone who does not? I don't believe that, nor do I believe criticism of the company's products or services should be limited to those who own and use them.
As an aside, I've said in this very forum that the Surface Book keyboard was the best portable keyboard I'd ever touched. That doesn't mean I didn't think the device itself was a poor design, it was terrible, problematic thermals, docking mechanism failure, and a tablet crippled by abysmal battery life. It seems Microsoft ultimately agreed because they replaced it with a new 2-in-1 in which the tablet is crippled by abysmal weight—four pounds! I'm trying to imagine holding that thing however I want as long as I want like I do a 1.5 pound iPad Pro... or do I have to actually own a four pound tablet and use it before I can imagine what muscle fatigue feels like?
Well, as shareholder, I would think that you really have nothing to complain about.
As Windows user, your snide remarks on Panay are just weird. Windows 11 is technically solid, well liked and evolves at good speed, with content of changes pointing to a direction, not a crapshoot of half thought out features as in the times of Sinofsky-"The-Shipper".
As Surface non-user, your argument smells of bad faith.
You choose to compare the Surface Laptop Studio iPad Pro. That makes no sense. Why not to MacBook pro? Because the MacBook does not support stylus nor touchscreen and this comparison would be lost by default? You MUST know that Studio Laptop is well liked and well reviewed by its intended audience.
Also, your archetype of good design is the iPad pro with the bolt on abomination of keyboard? Really?
Here is the deal: Surface devices are not good value, generally speaking (with Laptop and Duo being the exceptions, for different reasons). Everybody knows this. This literally is the first point in negatives of any Verge review, of any Surface device ever built. But if you are in the sweet spot of the functionalities, there is simply no replacement for them. For me, the difference of 500 EUR between a Surface Pro 8 and a less competent competitor is negligible. Just as the 3X price difference between a MakBook Air and a CHUWI ultraportable would be for you. And it makes money for Microsoft, keeps them connected to the needs of PC manufacturers, while being an excellent PR prompt / advertising tool.
Duo is clearly and experiment. Good for them for trying stuff out.
As Windows user, your snide remarks on Panay are just weird. Windows 11 is technically solid, well liked and evolves at good speed, with content of changes pointing to a direction, not a crapshoot of half thought out features as in the times of Sinofsky-"The-Shipper".
As Surface non-user, your argument smells of bad faith.
You choose to compare the Surface Laptop Studio iPad Pro. That makes no sense. Why not to MacBook pro? Because the MacBook does not support stylus nor touchscreen and this comparison would be lost by default? You MUST know that Studio Laptop is well liked and well reviewed by its intended audience.
Also, your archetype of good design is the iPad pro with the bolt on abomination of keyboard? Really?
Here is the deal: Surface devices are not good value, generally speaking (with Laptop and Duo being the exceptions, for different reasons). Everybody knows this. This literally is the first point in negatives of any Verge review, of any Surface device ever built. But if you are in the sweet spot of the functionalities, there is simply no replacement for them. For me, the difference of 500 EUR between a Surface Pro 8 and a less competent competitor is negligible. Just as the 3X price difference between a MakBook Air and a CHUWI ultraportable would be for you. And it makes money for Microsoft, keeps them connected to the needs of PC manufacturers, while being an excellent PR prompt / advertising tool.
Duo is clearly and experiment. Good for them for trying stuff out.
I didn't say that. I think Surface will be around. I hope the Duo is upgraded at least twice more...then I'll be in the market for a new phone and it is likely what I would get.
It would never be cancelled...that would be a horribly stupid idea. Worst case is that it would either be spun out as private company or sold to someone.
I don't have a dog in this fight--I haven't used Windows in the better part of a decade, and I'm only dimly aware of what Microsoft is up to; I don't know enough to form a reasoned opinion.
But I gotta comment on this:
The iPad Pro with with Magic Keyboard is an amazing piece of design. The keyboard is one of the best I've used, and absolutely transforms the iPad's usability for writing-intensive tasks. When it's off, the iPad works...just like an iPad; when it's on, the iPad is an effective laptop replacement for all of my at-home purposes. And it comes on and off absolutely seamlessly. The iPad Pro with the bolt on keyboard is indeed the archetype of good design, and is the farthest thing imaginable from an "abomination."
But I gotta comment on this:
The iPad Pro with with Magic Keyboard is an amazing piece of design. The keyboard is one of the best I've used, and absolutely transforms the iPad's usability for writing-intensive tasks. When it's off, the iPad works...just like an iPad; when it's on, the iPad is an effective laptop replacement for all of my at-home purposes. And it comes on and off absolutely seamlessly. The iPad Pro with the bolt on keyboard is indeed the archetype of good design, and is the farthest thing imaginable from an "abomination."
To second this, with the iPad attached keyboard you have a firm base that you can actually put on your lap. The floppily attached Surface one is fine (fine, not great) on a desk or tray table but near useless when you're actually on-lap.
Ah yeah, this lapability thing again. Never been an issue for me, since SP3. Anyway, you guys don't like Surface Pro, good, got it.
No, I have no opinion about the Surface Pro. Never seen or touched one. I do, however, love the iPad Pro/keyboard combination.
I don't not like them, they're cool little machines. Some people at work have them, and my gf has the Surface Book that has a slick form factor and a gorgeous screen (makes her second work laptop and external look like junk, which they are and is unfortunate when they're side by side all day). I have a distinct distaste for Windows, having to work with it all day and then on to my gaming tower most nights, and the form factor isn't to my specific tastes, but I don't, like have the bile come up in my throat when I see one.
If someone already hacked their PC to install Windows 11, why are they complaining about the watermark? They're already in a hacker lane, so apply a registry setting to get rid of it.
Microsoft never marketed Windows as the ultimate customizable OS, last I checked. Or is there some implicit 'social contract' that Windows is supposed to be exactly like Linux?
Microsoft never marketed Windows as the ultimate customizable OS, last I checked. Or is there some implicit 'social contract' that Windows is supposed to be exactly like Linux?