Indian spice mixes - how to use them?

[eisa01]

I visited Delhi in 2018 for a wedding, and bought some spice mixes from a store, and they've been sitting on a shelf since then...

Now I have two questions:

• Are they still tasty? I've heard spices lose taste over time. I did a small taste of one vial, and they still had a taste
• How do I use them? Any simple recipes I could try that don't need several hours of work / lots of fancy ingredients?

Each vial is 15g

 

[Skoop]

How do I use them?

General practice in sub-continental cuisines:

Chop up onion
Chop up ginger and garlic, mix them together in some coconut milk or rehydrated coconut powder, to form a paste
Heat ghee in the pot
When hot, toss in (could be any or all of, depends on the dish) cumin seeds, cinnamon stick, cardamom pods, coriander seeds, roasted red chilis. Cook for 30 seconds
Add the onion and cook the mix until onions are starting to brown
Stir in the powder spice mix. In Indian and Pakistani foods, the spices are always cooked when making a curry.
Cook briefly; when spices begin to brown, stir in a cup or so of yogurt, one spoon at a time. (Good stuff, nothing with gums or thickening goo.)
When that's all incorporated, stir in the ginger/garlic paste

This is the basic curry foundation. At this point, add small meat cubes or vegetables of choice and water. Heat to simmer and cook slowly, stirring occasionally to watch the water. Salt to taste. Let it thicken over time. Longer is better.

Don't hurry a curry.

 

[rtrefz]

Skoop has it!

Keep the spices away from heat and light to maximize their lifetime (although 6 years is pretty long for powdered spices.) I expect these spices have lost a lot of their subtle notes. You can still use them but they may lack a punch.

 

[snotnose]

2018? They're no good. Throw them out and buy new ones, then do what Skoop says.

I remember years ago McCormick ran ads saying "do you still have spices in these containers? Throw them out, we haven't used those containers in 10 years". Mom's spice cabinet was full of those things. Went to throw them out and got an earful of "those are perfectly good! Why are you throwing my money in the trash?" yadda yadda yadda. Funny thing was, when mom came to my house she always asked why my food was so tasty.

 

[rtrefz]

Whole spices last a lot longer and it's very easy to make your own spice mix if you have a grinder (I user an old blade sort of coffee grinder.) I make my own Garam Masala mix all the time.

 

[pasorrijer]

2018? They're no good. Throw them out and buy new ones, then do what Skoop says.

I remember years ago McCormick ran ads saying "do you still have spices in these containers? Throw them out, we haven't used those containers in 10 years". Mom's spice cabinet was full of those things. Went to throw them out and got an earful of "those are perfectly good! Why are you throwing my money in the trash?" yadda yadda yadda. Funny thing was, when mom came to my house she always asked why my food was so tasty.

They may not be perfect, but I'd argue using slightly older spices to practice these dishes is better than just throwing them out.

... Also, remember that McCormick had a very vested interest in you throwing out all your old spices and running to the store to restock..

 

[Colm]

I will put in a plug for penzey's. If you have one near you they have great spice blends with open containers you can smell that you can buy down to small sachets of to practice. Their mailorder is also great with an even wider selection up to some real bulk sizes.

 

[timezon3]

Love Penzey's, we use their sweet curry, as my wife doesn't like spicy at all, but it's still very flavorful!

 

[Pont]

Heat ghee in the pot

I love that Ghee is getting more commonly available in stores.

 

[eisa01]

Thanks for all the input!

I will at least try once with one of the spice mixes, and let's see how it tastes
Never heard of Ghee, but given the large Pakistani immigrant community in Norway I should be able to find it

Will update how it goes when I get around to this!

 

[rtrefz]

Ghee is essentially clarified butter. It's pretty easy to make.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/ghee-recipe-2103328

 

[ramases]

Someone will probably be along to flog me for this, but if you want a quick ghee analogue half olive oil and half butter dissolved in the oil will do in a pinch ...

 

[waqar]

Ghee makes the world better.
Parathas made with ghee. 1/4 inch thick, fully layered, cooked in the right amount of heat.
going into a food coma just thinking about it.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

/googles parathas...

How have I not eaten parathas before??? What kind of lazy good-for-nothing asian friends do I have that they've never offered me any?! /stalks off...

//Also... goes to check local indian takeaway menus.

 

[Cognac]

Thanks for all the input!

I will at least try once with one of the spice mixes, and let's see how it tastes
Never heard of Ghee, but given the large Pakistani immigrant community in Norway I should be able to find it

Will update how it goes when I get around to this!

If they've been sealed that whole time they might still be OKish. Certainly worth trying. But don't be surprised if you make the dish again it has way more flavour. Just don't expect to recreate what you ate in Delhi with this batch.

But yes, @Skoop has the scoop. You should be OK. And there's a billion recipes online to find if you're looking for alternative combinations.

 

[waqar]

Parathas are very much a breakfast food. Something quite often served for Sehri during Ramadan.
Eat a couple and you'll be in a food coma for half the day. Perfect with anything you'd normally eat with a chappati. But 10x more calorific..

 

[steelghost]

Main thing to bear in mind is that the flavours in such spice mixes are mainly oil soluble, so you want to cook them in some sort of oil before you add any wet ingredients. Go easy on the heat, you can easily burn spices!

 

[waqar]

whole spices well stored will have a considerably longer shelf life. Cool, dry and dark.

 

[demultiplexer]

Someone will probably be along to flog me for this, but if you want a quick ghee analogue half olive oil and half butter dissolved in the oil will do in a pinch ...

Depends on what you use the ghee for. Ghee is just* clarified butter, so butter without the sugar, water and protein. Just the butterfat. You can boil off the water in butter and brown out the solids and get ghee. Not a hard or time-consuming process.

The point of ghee is to have a high smoke point animal fat. If you mix unclarified butter and olive oil you may get some of the taste, texture and culinary uses for ghee right, but it won't get you the high smoke point.

(* ghee is non-browned though)

 

[Mojo-jojo]

Depends on what you use the ghee for. Ghee is just* clarified butter, so butter without the sugar, water and protein. Just the butterfat. You can boil off the water in butter and brown out the solids and get ghee. Not a hard or time-consuming process.

The point of ghee is to have a high smoke point animal fat. If you mix unclarified butter and olive oil you may get some of the taste, texture and culinary uses for ghee right, but it won't get you the high smoke point.

(* ghee is non-browned though)

Wait, I thought the thing that differentiated ghee from clarified butter is that ghee is clarified AFTER the milk solids have browned?

(all the googling I'm doing to check is kicking back a variety of answers, some people saying it isn't browned, some people saying it is browned, but not taken as far as brown butter, and multiple anecdotes from Indian people talking about the different ways their family would consume the leftover browned bits in the pan after making ghee)

 

[demultiplexer]

From what I understand, but I'm culturally ignorant about the Indian preparation of ghee, especially regional differences:

• Clarified butter is butter separated by density. You prepare it simply by heating the butter beyond the point where the emulsion can hold, then either chill to scoop off the butterfat or pour off the butterfat layer.
• Beurre noisette or browned butter is a very specific way of caramelizing/doing the maillard reaction on the milk solids without burning them, through stirring and controlled heating. You keep all the bits of the butter, or in some cases filter out the crusty bits (but you're supposed to still have some milk solids in it)
• Ghee is butter with all the milk solids removed through heating. The water boils out first, then the milk solids stick to the pot and you pour off the butterfat. You don't care about any of the solids anymore, they're waste. They can burn, they can barely brown, whatever, it's all good.

That's the elemental distinction. But of course if there's anything you can learn about cooking it's that you can do stuff slightly different and it has a totally different name and application. I'm still learning new ways to cook eggs and I've been doing the interested home cook thing for like 15 years now.

 

[Mojo-jojo]

From what I understand, but I'm culturally ignorant about the Indian preparation of ghee, especially regional differences:

• Clarified butter is butter separated by density. You prepare it simply by heating the butter beyond the point where the emulsion can hold, then either chill to scoop off the butterfat or pour off the butterfat layer.
• Beurre noisette or browned butter is a very specific way of caramelizing/doing the maillard reaction on the milk solids without burning them, through stirring and controlled heating. You keep all the bits of the butter, or in some cases filter out the crusty bits (but you're supposed to still have some milk solids in it)
• Ghee is butter with all the milk solids removed through heating. The water boils out first, then the milk solids stick to the pot and you pour off the butterfat. You don't care about any of the solids anymore, they're waste. They can burn, they can barely brown, whatever, it's all good.

That's the elemental distinction. But of course if there's anything you can learn about cooking it's that you can do stuff slightly different and it has a totally different name and application. I'm still learning new ways to cook eggs and I've been doing the interested home cook thing for like 15 years now.

Mmmm, I don't think I realized that clarified butter stopped before boiling off the water completely. Otherwise, that sounds pretty consistent with what else I was reading. I suspect the solids getting browned as part of the ghee prep may have started off incidental to the process, versus brown butter where it's the goal, but since it imparts flavor and doesn't negatively impact the end product, i.e. a longer lasting fat with a higher smoke point, it may have just stayed part of it.

I have a feeling it was a partially throwaway statement near the end there, but the only thing I'd pedantically airquotes 'correct' is that even though they aren't using the solids in ghee, you probably care enough about them that you wouldn't want them to go so far that they burn. Otherwise the ghee would pick up that burned flavor and taste bad from the jump. I know I've accidentally burned some browned butter while doing prep for some brown butter cookies and it both smells and tastes VILE lol.

 

[demultiplexer]

Yeah, as soon as anything fat-soluble burns in cooking, it's game over. You might as well throw the whole dish away. Yet burning tomato skins, bell pepers, chilies... only makes them better.

If there's a God, he fucked up a lot in designing cooking. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

 

[pasorrijer]

There may be no rhyme or reason, But there is a thyme and season!

 

[ramases]

We need an 'angry upvote' reaction ...

 

[mhac]

I'm a foodie and like to experiment with flavors, but I'm not an experienced cook. I tend to gravitate to adding unusual spices to meals already prepared. Making a deli sandwich? I'd add something interesting in the mayo to make a tasty aoli. We tend to have a lot of ethnic food, and it's mostly "stuff" over rice. When doing leftovers the following nights, I'll mix spices into the rice or the "stuff" to give it a new taste.

My point is: you aren't restricted to cooking with it. Feel free to try using it as a condiment. Be adventurous!

 

[Crackhead Johny]

Are they still tasty? I've heard spices lose taste over time. I did a small taste of one vial, and they still had a taste

Spices do age but not nearly as fast as internet recipe stealers will want you to believe. This is for most people, if you are an actual hypertaster you may notice a difference week by week for all I know I have only met 1 actual hypertaster in my life (shockingly it was a man. most aren't)
The only way to know is to try them out. You may have to add more than when they were fresh but if you cook things how you like them then it is "to taste" anyway.

When you see a "food blogger" AKA recipe thief ("My grandmother invented this recipe for Pop Rocks casserole during the depression when popping candy was all that was left in her pantry.."), who tells you something will be good in the freezer for "up to a month", spices are only good for 3 months, you should throw Fleur de sel/Maldon sea salt in your pancake batter, you should de-ice your driveway with Himalayan pink salt or Hawaiian black salt, etc punch them in the junk. All they are doing is trying to get you to waste expensive ingredients to make themselves seem more refined than you or more like an expert.

Spices do deteriorate over time, ground faster than whole but I have some ~20 year old tika Masala spice that I still plan to use when I can find some camel meat.

For your tandoori chicken go get a terra-cotta flower pot that will fit your chicken and a terra-cotta saucer to flip it over on instead of buying a tandoor. Should run you ~10$ instead of ~150$ in white people money.

For the tikka Masala grab a few cans of coconut cream if you do not already have a pile for curry. Dump one in a pan with spice to taste. Grill up chicken, cube and pitch it in, then simmer for 5-10 min. You can throw it on rice or eat it right out of the pot if no one is watching. For left over cans of coconut cream grab some big plastic containers of Mae Ploy curry paste from the Asian grocery and make plenty of curry. Pretty much anything will curry.

If you make ghee with unsalted butter, you can save the brown nutty solids and pitch them in your next batch of burgers. If you use salted.. the burgers may get salty.

 

[rtrefz]

My wife recently made a recipe that called for up to 1/2 tsp of saffron. I'm happy she mentioned it before buying $100+ of saffron.

 

[Hound of Cullen]

My wife recently made a recipe that called for up to 1/2 tsp of saffron. I'm happy she mentioned it before buying $100+ of saffron.

My neighbors grew saffron this year. It is a pain to harvest, but cheaper than buying it.

 

[Crackhead Johny]

My neighbors grew saffron this year. It is a pain to harvest, but cheaper than buying it.

Saffron are crocuses aren't they and you hand harvest the couple of stigma/styles from each? IIRC it takes an acre of them to get a tiny amount of saffron (1oz?). In this case "cheaper" requires you to put no value on your life. This is why we only get it from 3rd world places where life is cheap. It has been getting cheaper over the years. Of course if you REALLY love saffron growing it yourself may be the option if you have acres of land. Even better if you find harvesting it to be relaxing rather than mind killingly boring.
Hmm, Google says you can actually get ~4 lbs per acre after planting ~400K bulbs.. So maybe just a smaller bed. Those bulbs have to cost a pile too. USDA zone 6-10.. Hmm I'm zone 5 so planting a few is tempting now. It looks like in bulk the bulbs are a little under 50 cents a piece.

My wife recently made a recipe that called for up to 1/2 tsp of saffron. I'm happy she mentioned it before buying $100+ of saffron.

I think I got mine at Costco. ~1tsp for ~20$. 1/2 tsp sound like an awful lot unless it was for a massive amount of food. I hear "add 1/2 tsp saffron" like I hear "Add 1 cup salt". I usually throw a small pinch in rice when I make it. Amazon saffron that is cheap requires you to bet against it being a scam. One of our GFs did give me a large bottle of "liquid saffron", I do not know where she got it. I'd guess the "liquid saffron" comes from stigmas that are not suitable for standard sale.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

I hear "add 1/2 tsp saffron" like I hear "Add 1 cup salt".

 

[eisa01]

I promised an update, and I've now used up the Biryani and Butter Chicken spice mixes, @OrangeCream shared them with some advice by PM

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/16102/chicken-biryani/
https://cafedelites.com/butter-chicken/

Both turned out quite well, the spice was at least not the problem

On the Biryani, the Chicken got a bit tough. I wonder if it overcooked? The recipe said to put it straight into the pot, where it cooked for 50 minutes total
When making the butter chicken I marinated it for 8 hours, cut against the grain, and browned it before cooking it and was tender!

I may have oversalted the butter chicken by using the spice mix for "all the spices except salt", and adding salt on top. Not sure I can see any salt in the spice mix, but next time I'll taste as I make it before adding salt

 

[rtrefz]

Did you use chicken thighs or chicken breasts?

 

[eisa01]

Chicken breasts both times

 

[Vince-RA]

Breasts are easy to overcook and will get tough quickly. Thighs are fattier (though you can trim lots of the visible fat) but MUCH more forgiving and almost certainly the right choice for long-cooked dishes.

 

[JimCampbell]

Thighs are fattier (though you can trim lots of the visible fat) but MUCH more forgiving and almost certainly the right choice for long-cooked dishes.

Cheaper and tastier, too, IMO. For anything like a curry, I’ll go with thigh every time.

 

[rtrefz]

Same here!

 

[waqar]

Chicken thighs every time for a curry. Fat is where the flavour lives.
Best meat for biriani? Beef brisket. So fatty....

 

[Snark218]

I visited Delhi in 2018 for a wedding, and bought some spice mixes from a store, and they've been sitting on a shelf since then...

Now I have two questions:

• Are they still tasty? I've heard spices lose taste over time. I did a small taste of one vial, and they still had a taste
• How do I use them? Any simple recipes I could try that don't need several hours of work / lots of fancy ingredients?

Each vial is 15g

1: no. Spices lose much of their flavor in a year or less. Source: worked in a spice store for a couple years in grad school.

2: If you absolutely must try to use them - and I'd just recommend buying fresh - spices in India are typically added in two stages, one at the beginning and at the very end of cooking, after being bloomed in hot oil. I'd recommend googling a chicken curry recipe by Raghavan Iyer - there's one on Serious Eats that's good - and using your spices in that recipe.

 

[dferrantino]

Breasts are for short cook times and where white meat is required. Curries (and stews in general, of which curries are a subset) are not those dishes. Thigh meat all the way.