They were creating a brand new device and a brand new marketplace (albeit a walled garden) as opposed to aping a competitors product, primarily to serve an advertising business.
I don’t understand how Android is the dominant phone platform.
- Thread starter Exordium01
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It's possible to both praise the iPhone as an incredible disruptive product that changed the direction of the industry and computing more broadly...While at the same time pointing out how it was the culmination of enabling technologies. Both those things can be true at the same time.
The iPhone was a profoundly disruptive device that changed computing in a profound way. To suggest that saying that is mere blind praise for Apple or the iPhone is just ridiculousness.
That does not mean that every individual piece of the iphone stack was also disruptive, or profound.
The iPhone was a profoundly disruptive device that changed computing in a profound way. To suggest that saying that is mere blind praise for Apple or the iPhone is just ridiculousness.
That does not mean that every individual piece of the iphone stack was also disruptive, or profound.
It's like you've autopsied Einstein and then just declare him human.
It might be true, but it's reductionist to the point of absurdity.
It's hard to take you guys seriously.
It might be true, but it's reductionist to the point of absurdity.
It's hard to take you guys seriously.
It's hard to take comparing Apple's product developers to Einstein seriously too.
I’d agree. But the comparison was with the iPhone, not developers.
And arguably, the iPhone, while it didn’t invent individual components any more than Einstein invented Newtonian physics, very much did rethink existing technology to shape the direction of the industry for decades to come.
Wow, yep, you're right, I'm convinced. Thank you for your compelling argument.
Things like a proper app list is why people switched to Android a long time ago.
Please provide non-anecdotal evidence that that is the reason.
What is the switch rate to Android? I mean, I know plenty who have done it, but I have a hard time believing that it's a huge number.
I think most Android users just never have used Apple, Some due to price, some due to history (Verizon users who started android and never changed as a US example) and some due to brand or technology preference.
I mean I like Android, I liked Windows Phone better, but I like Android. And I don't like some of the traditional Apple UI choices...many of which have changed over the years. But ultimately, I just don't see the value for the iPhone price premium and I don't like the lack of choice on Performance vs. Price
So it boils down to momentum and a lot more granularity of choice for price vs. performance.
On Android, for brands in the US, between Moto, Google Pixel and Samsung (particularly Higher end Samsung phones. Don't care about their low end stuff), there is a good selection of products across the price spectrum that have solid quality and excellent price/performance options.
I think most Android users just never have used Apple, Some due to price, some due to history (Verizon users who started android and never changed as a US example) and some due to brand or technology preference.
I mean I like Android, I liked Windows Phone better, but I like Android. And I don't like some of the traditional Apple UI choices...many of which have changed over the years. But ultimately, I just don't see the value for the iPhone price premium and I don't like the lack of choice on Performance vs. Price
So it boils down to momentum and a lot more granularity of choice for price vs. performance.
On Android, for brands in the US, between Moto, Google Pixel and Samsung (particularly Higher end Samsung phones. Don't care about their low end stuff), there is a good selection of products across the price spectrum that have solid quality and excellent price/performance options.
Well, you picked the single thing that the market already had worked out before the iPhone was introduced, and that Apple apparently never saw fit to implement on iOS (it's there on Apple Watch).
Have a cookie. That white stuff is er…frosting. Yes.
Serious question: As an iPhone user, I guess I don't know what a "proper app list" is. What am I missing? What does it let you do on Android that I can't on iOS?
I think they mean an alphabetical list of all apps installed on the phone, which is available on anything that has the App Library (tap the search bar within the App Library screen).
There's a variety of reasons why people may switch. Android is (mostly) open, hardware is generally cheaper, Android is extremely allowing one to easily swap out pretty much every user facing app for another, the ability sideload apps, etc
I don't think the app drawer is a huge draw for most people.
In android you flick upwards from the bottom and you get a "drawer" with every app installed on the system in scrolling page versus apple who puts the icons on the homescreen and you flick side to side with it
The only thing i could figure is that (most) android launchers separates the app list from the homescreen while iOS doesn't have a similar list but instead puts all apps on the homescreen
As mentioned, in the App Library, you get a full alphabetical list as soon as you tap in the search field.
The funny thing is, I didn’t know that such a list existed until I read about it here yesterday. I tried it, confirmed that it works and is easy to use, and will probably never use it again.
This suggests that, at least to people like me, a “proper app list” is not a significant feature, much less grounds to switch to Android.
Complete agreement. "Oh, this exists? That's cool, I guess."
I've never missed it, in 14 years on iPhone.
I use the proper App List somewhat regularly, but it's mostly for apps that I probably should throw on the secondary home screen, but that ends up being no easier than just going to the app list.
I'm very picky with what is on my home screen and in the drawer. I guess that's contrary to the traditional iPhone UI. Though, I honestly have no idea how it works in modern versions.
I'm very picky with what is on my home screen and in the drawer. I guess that's contrary to the traditional iPhone UI. Though, I honestly have no idea how it works in modern versions.
Icons on page 1, some icons on page 2 but mostly folders. Spotlight to launch anything that's not immediately accessible.
I have SM and Productivity on page 1. Email/phone/SMS in the drawer (need on any screen) Games and stuff like the Mcdonalds App on page 2. Everything else, go to the app list. I hate folders/grouped Icons.
I should probably move What's App to the Drawer as it's been getting more use lately, but meh.
I should probably move What's App to the Drawer as it's been getting more use lately, but meh.
On iPhone I have 4 themed pages. Page 1 is communications, 2 is work/getting stuff done, 3 is media and 4 is games and misc. everything else is in the Library and I get to it with search. No folders - ewwwww.
Maybe once a year I go through and consider whether a given app still justifies being on the pages or whether it belongs in the library or whether it should get full on deleted.
I have had the experience of knowing I had a given app but not being able to find it exactly zero times since I got an iPhone. The idea that an alphabetical list is a categorically better way to find apps is bizarre.
Maybe once a year I go through and consider whether a given app still justifies being on the pages or whether it belongs in the library or whether it should get full on deleted.
I have had the experience of knowing I had a given app but not being able to find it exactly zero times since I got an iPhone. The idea that an alphabetical list is a categorically better way to find apps is bizarre.
Lists doesn't work well with a very large collection of apps anyway... because app names are arbitrary and sometimes downright obtuse.
But, the solution to the long list, if you know the app name anyway is search. (This is the same solution Windows proponents love to brag was added to the windows start bar as the as the panacea solution to all such problems anyway...
But, the solution to the long list, if you know the app name anyway is search. (This is the same solution Windows proponents love to brag was added to the windows start bar as the as the panacea solution to all such problems anyway...
I mean, I don't know if my app list is long or not. I tend to delete apps I don't use, but usually the apps I search for I don't remember the exact name of the App, I really only know the icon and part of the name for the app. I don't find searching for apps in Android to be particularly good compared to Windows on the Desktop. So scrolling through the list looking for the Icon is what I mostly do.
iOS search is very good, but there are actually a handful of things Siri is very good at, like recommending the Costco app when you are at Costco and need your membership card.
The Irony that the entire purpose of Icons is so we wouldn't need to use words to find things should not be lost.
As an Android user I use the list of all apps all the time. I have a dozen or so "daily use" apps on the main home screen but basically everything else I just go to the app list. I do have a couple secondary screens that at one point I was going to use for secondary and tertiary apps but I just never find myself using them. It's so easy to swipe up and then just scroll to what I'm looking for that the more "paged" way of finding them just seems to take more effort / brain power. As for using search instead, I could do that too but I just don't and I'm not sure why. I use it on Windows all the time but on my phone I prefer the list. It might be due to the on screen vs. physical keyboard or just the mess a lot of applications like to put in the windows start menu. It's also probably due to the kinds of apps I'm using on my phone and the somewhat weird names they have. Specifically, most apps on my phone are accessed from a website on my desktop.
As for Siri being very good at recommending apps based on physical location I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth posted on this very website about how evil Google is if they were to do the same thing.
As for Siri being very good at recommending apps based on physical location I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth posted on this very website about how evil Google is if they were to do the same thing.
I always felt if you have to search for apps, then whatever mechanism your OS uses for launching programs is inadequate.
Every platform supports quick access to commonly used apps, but I’d take spotlight style search as an app launcher over a start menu style list any day. You don’t type out the whole name and hit go, you type a couple letters. Frequently the first letter alone condenses the available options to include what you want in big letters on a single screen.
Don’t get me wrong, Windows search is awful. I’m wondering if part of the issue is that half the BF is scarred by being beholden to Windows search while Apple has had very good indexing and search for around two decades. People wouldn’t be using spotlight as an app launcher if it didn’t work well.
In Windows 10 on my work computer, I still find myself needing to go through explorer to the program files folder for some applications that neither show up as an app in the start menu or in search.
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The whole point of a GUI is that you don't have to memorize all these commands. You click some onscreen element, and it does something.
Using search to launch programs is a regression. The search, at least for programs, is basically a command prompt.
edit: I don't consider search a bad thing in itself. It's quite useful for data consumed by programs
Using search to launch programs is a regression. The search, at least for programs, is basically a command prompt.
edit: I don't consider search a bad thing in itself. It's quite useful for data consumed by programs
I have never, not ever going to program files to find an app. I find windows search in windows 10 to be absolutely stellar. I can't even fathom it not working.
I use search in windows rather than scrolling the start menu, because it is faster to hit windows key and type the first letter or 2. But that is in part my own fault for not sorting my start menu in a helpful way...something I do on my phone on day one.
I use search in windows rather than scrolling the start menu, because it is faster to hit windows key and type the first letter or 2. But that is in part my own fault for not sorting my start menu in a helpful way...something I do on my phone on day one.
Which brings me back to my point before. On osx/macOS finder is basically a visual way to browse your directory tree. That's not really an ideal way to deal with the sheer number of programs/files one has on a modern computer. So apple added the dock and later spotlight to help alleviate the problem.
edit: Windows is a little different. Explorer is a file manager and pushed that way. In normal usage you generally don't mess with explorer to install/uninstall programs.
That's a feature, not a bug
The start menu is a collection of shortcuts that point to programs and sometimes files. A program installer puts the shortcut in the start menu. If a program is put into program files, then it should have put a shortcut in the start menu. That's normal accepted behavior since the start menu existed. It also mean that it's going to miss a program that isn't put in the proper place unless the user adds thier own shortcut
That being said android and IOS auto populate their launchers with every program you have. It's just different and has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Mainly the biggest strength , in regards to this conversation, is that you don't really need to search because the program is already listed no matter what
Yeah, that's downright bizarre behavior way outside the norm to have to go into program files to launch a program
Microsoft, for some bizarre reason, decided to make it much harder to edit the start menu. It used to be easy to use explorer to manage the start menu. Nowadays not so much. Too much is some weird crap in the registry somewhere..
Yeah, but it isn't really so hard that it is not doable. right click/pin to start isn't difficult. I just don't do it for most apps. But search is super good.
I never create shortcuts when I throw putty on a computer (usually directly on the desktop) and it never has trouble finding the executable.
I never create shortcuts when I throw putty on a computer (usually directly on the desktop) and it never has trouble finding the executable.
259 installed apps on my iPhone. Better believe I'm using Spotlight for most of them
.I refuse to believe there are 259 useful unique programs in existence...across all platforms over all time. If you exclude games.
It used to be "add shortcuts and folders to a folder" back when it was simply a frontend over a certain folder. You could create nice nesting folders and organize however you wanted to.
You can kind of still do that but the upper-level stuff like pining you can't. Plus, there's two different start menu locations nowadays, one for user and one public (aka all users) which make things more complicated.