How Polestar engineers EVs that can handle brutal winters
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Easy problem. Easy solution.
Add more physical buttons and knobs. No one wants to go 3 menus deep to change climate control (exaggerating but not exaggerating).
Add more physical buttons and knobs. No one wants to go 3 menus deep to change climate control (exaggerating but not exaggerating).
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Not entirely sure if my 2025 Ioniq 6 has as sophisticated a battery temp system, but I know it's NMC and confirmed on the road (in 20 degrees F) that turning off the heat pump brings the car's range back up near 4m/kW. That heat pump, man.
EDIT: To eliminate any misconceptions: it went from 2.9m/kW to 3.6m/kW.
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Volkswagen has publicly stated that touchscreens are a mistake and are bringing at least some physical buttons back:
I have a feeling many other automotive companies will eventually follow suit. Not sure about a certain EV company from California though.
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This story reminds me of the courses I took in the Navy to drive emergency vehicles. It was less about going sideways than it was about learning how to stay in control (which going sideways can kind of be part of) despite surprises. A good share of it was going around curves more like a drifter than an F1, along with staying in control doing rapid lane changes.
But these were basically 70's era delivery vans, converted to carry patients, rear-heavy and a lot more weight on the top, with 1 wheel RWD and no ABS, which made slides and skids a LOT easier to do - especially when responding to an emergency and the adrenaline is pumping. So learning how to stay on target when the tail is trying to touch the nose was, in its own way, much more involved (and IMHO, fun) than similar vehicles generally are today.
In practice, I employed none of these skills driving emergency vehicles. The most wild I got was when we were stuck in traffic for the state fair entrance on the way back to the ER with a patient who had a compound ankle fracture. We couldn't give pain meds, so I advised that we'd be about an hour for a 10 minute trip, and they authorized lights and siren.
The guy in front of me completely lost his shit as I lit up behind him. Fortunately the traffic control folks stopped oncoming traffic, so that let me safely cross the median at a sedate pace then I returned to my proper lane and shut off the emergency stuff and got to the hospital so the patient could be treated.
The Polestar doesn't resemble a 70's GM cargo van other than having 4 wheels, but I'll never forget the fun that training course was learning how to push the envelope in one.
But these were basically 70's era delivery vans, converted to carry patients, rear-heavy and a lot more weight on the top, with 1 wheel RWD and no ABS, which made slides and skids a LOT easier to do - especially when responding to an emergency and the adrenaline is pumping. So learning how to stay on target when the tail is trying to touch the nose was, in its own way, much more involved (and IMHO, fun) than similar vehicles generally are today.
In practice, I employed none of these skills driving emergency vehicles. The most wild I got was when we were stuck in traffic for the state fair entrance on the way back to the ER with a patient who had a compound ankle fracture. We couldn't give pain meds, so I advised that we'd be about an hour for a 10 minute trip, and they authorized lights and siren.
The guy in front of me completely lost his shit as I lit up behind him. Fortunately the traffic control folks stopped oncoming traffic, so that let me safely cross the median at a sedate pace then I returned to my proper lane and shut off the emergency stuff and got to the hospital so the patient could be treated.
The Polestar doesn't resemble a 70's GM cargo van other than having 4 wheels, but I'll never forget the fun that training course was learning how to push the envelope in one.
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Physical buttons for interior climate controls will help the EV know how much wheel spin and fishtailing is appropriate?
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LordSlinkySupreme
Smack-Fu Master, in training
Honestly, it’s not really an issue with the Polestars. The climate controls are permanently placed at the bottom on the Home screen with big, easy to press buttons.
It’s not like VW who buried that shit with zero backlight.
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I'd drive the shit out of a Polestar 2 Arctic Circle. Even the same lights, suspension, and wheels on a 4 would be rad. Hell yeah. Safari style meets Finnish rally hero? Sign my ass up.
This is an interesting question and challenge, though; how does one make an EV that's heavier, delivers power very differently, and has effectively two drivetrains handle intuitively and safely in a low-traction situation? I'm glad they're spending time on sorting it out.
This is an interesting question and challenge, though; how does one make an EV that's heavier, delivers power very differently, and has effectively two drivetrains handle intuitively and safely in a low-traction situation? I'm glad they're spending time on sorting it out.
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Interesting that the 3 struggled. On one hand, testing is likely the only time a polestar is going to be drifting around a frozen lake on studded tires at speed. Real world most sliding by a polestar will be someone having a pucker moment going a bit too fast around a turn on their way to the store where no one cares if the TC/ESC intervention is a bit awkward so long as it gets the car back under control. Physics is cruel and most drivers aren't very good at handling low friction conditions, particularly unexpectedly. On the other hand it's disappointing that their vehicle dynamics polish wasn't great given polestar has a performance angle on their branding. Also when looking at limit handling, it's true that no one drives like that on the road but the tuning that makes a car's limit handling good tends to result in a more confidence inspiring chassis balance at any speed. Whether your normal commuter cares or understands is a whole different question.
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I'm a sucker for anything with those classic white rally wheels.
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I was idly looking at the 2 and 3 the other day, thinking I should start planning my wife's replacement for her Chrysler 200. Even moderately equipped, both topped 100k CAD. The EV30 sure looks nice comparatively.
That being said, I'd love an Arctic Circle Edition!
That being said, I'd love an Arctic Circle Edition!
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Pedantic alert ! It’s spelled Luleå not Lulea, ’a’ and ’å’ are separate letters in Swedish.
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This is amusing to see as I just got back from driving my Polestar at the local track.
The car handles exceptionally well at high speeds, though the weight does mean that using the regenerative breaking is a requirement otherwise you'll burn through the heat capacity of the brakes in a heartbeat.
For comparison, to the article, I was averaging about 25% for each 30-minute session on the track.
Playlist of onboard footage:
If anyone has more specific questions, just quote this.
The car handles exceptionally well at high speeds, though the weight does mean that using the regenerative breaking is a requirement otherwise you'll burn through the heat capacity of the brakes in a heartbeat.
For comparison, to the article, I was averaging about 25% for each 30-minute session on the track.
Playlist of onboard footage:
If anyone has more specific questions, just quote this.
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The silent acceleration and only wind/road noise just get me with BEV track videos. nice!
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"First of all, an EV can't ever turn the electronic nannies off entirely, because electric motors will rev to the moon with instantaneous torque the very instant their tires lose traction."
A DC motor will "rev to the moon" if the load is taken off, but an AC motor is limited to the speed corresponding to the AC frequency (ignoring the little universal motors they used to use on drills and the like). Whether it is async, sync with separate excitation, or PM, if the armature exceeds the AC frequency there will be braking.
For an AC drive motor even to work, there must be a controller with variable frequency, and it was the development of motor drives starting with the advent of power transistors that made realistic vehicle motors possible.
The drive electronics for EVs, in fact, are the really clever part of the whole thing. As you rightly say, the drive needs to know the torque, and how fast the wheel is turning relative to ground speed. What goes on between pedal and rubber bears no relation whatsoever to what happens in an ICEV.
A DC motor will "rev to the moon" if the load is taken off, but an AC motor is limited to the speed corresponding to the AC frequency (ignoring the little universal motors they used to use on drills and the like). Whether it is async, sync with separate excitation, or PM, if the armature exceeds the AC frequency there will be braking.
For an AC drive motor even to work, there must be a controller with variable frequency, and it was the development of motor drives starting with the advent of power transistors that made realistic vehicle motors possible.
The drive electronics for EVs, in fact, are the really clever part of the whole thing. As you rightly say, the drive needs to know the torque, and how fast the wheel is turning relative to ground speed. What goes on between pedal and rubber bears no relation whatsoever to what happens in an ICEV.
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My 2024 generally gets down to 2.2-2.5 in the winter depending on how deep the cold is, but a lot of that loss is from the remote start in the morning to that the thing off. But yeah, I'm regularly up around 3.5 beyond that point.
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Meanwhile the Cybertruck can't be driven when it's snowing because the headlight bar gets packed full of falling snow.
I think they literally never once tested it when it was snowing.
I think they literally never once tested it when it was snowing.
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I lived on an island in Alaska during high school, and since we lived miles beyond the end of the school bus route, I drove to school every morning. Rain, snow, sleet, or ice (or often all at the same time), I got in our early-70s sedan with its rear-wheel drive, drum brakes, and lack of any sort of traction control, and braved the treacherous roads. Making a bad situation even worse, some of the corners were banked the wrong way, making it almost impossible to stay on the road in the worst conditions. Some days I was sideways more often than not, trying to stay out of the ditch and not hit any other cars.
That might be fun on an icy lake where there isn’t much risk of hitting anything else, but not on a public highway. Nerve-wracking, terrifying, and exhausting, but not fun. It also makes me appreciate the cars we currently own, with disc brakes, all wheel drive, modern all season radials, and traction control. Then again, if I had that growing up, I probably wouldn’t be as good of a driver as I am today. Still, I would have traded that for a less nerve-wracking, terrifying, and exhausting drive to school in the winter.
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"This user knows how to operate physical buttons so they can probably cope with a little wheel spin."
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The Autopian had a recent article on this topic as well. VW is/was one of the worst offenders, especially the practice of only having two window switches with a capacitive button to go between front and rear. Abysmal, anti-user design in my opinion, and I'm glad to see a reverse course on this crap.
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Here's a fantastic video of when Fully Charged Show got the same sideways driving experience in northern Sweden a few years ago. Watch it, it's very entertaining.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ-HPJht6Eg
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ-HPJht6Eg
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Is a brushless DC motor that different from an AC motor with VFO? I mean you could control the rototation of the brushless DC motor in the controller rather than "rev to the moon."
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Just a little gentle trolling, to be honest I don't find it particularly attractive myself.
I'm waiting to see if the Rivian R3 is legit, that's much more my jam in this form factor.
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I'm inherently going to trust any EV tested in Sweden by Swedes for cold weather performance where I live; Northern Minnesota is a lot like being in Västerås. Anything tested to -50 and driven by people who live there is a great sign.
... Anyone know if Rivian is shipping their equipment up north for testing?
... Anyone know if Rivian is shipping their equipment up north for testing?
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Baudette, MN. https://stories.rivian.com/cold-weather-testing... Anyone know if Rivian is shipping their equipment up north for testing?
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Instead of emulating a revving engine, it just plays the sound of an eagle screech as you accelerate, with "the Star Spangled Banner" swelling in the background.
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I went looking around because I hadn't been keeping up with the R3 and it looks like rumors are now that we won't see it until 2029 or 2030? Here is hoping we still see it, but that just seems so far away.
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Other than the expensive Polestar, how do other EV brands do in that climate? And especially in Norway, where now almost all new cars sold are EVs?
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I've got a clip from my coworker who was out at the track with me. A Corvette screams across the screen, a few seconds later, I'm driving past and all you hear is wheel noise.
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Test drove both a Polestar 3 and a Lucid Air recently.
P3: Big hulking tank of a vehicle. Absolutely ZERO road feel through the steering, and despite the air suspension it wallowed around corners. Plenty power on tap.
Android Automotive is what they used. The demo vehicle kept asking for permissions for the infotainment system to do anything so software quality is still an issue. There were issues with certain functions like acceleration response only available while parked and not in any manner that made logical sense.
Lastly, expensive.
Lucid Air: Also big! Less road feel than a Tesla M3 but more than the P3. LOTS of power. Very refined interior.
Trunk entry is nuts! Big trunk, very small and weirdly shaped hatchway.
Lastly, VERY expensive.
Make of that what you will.
P3: Big hulking tank of a vehicle. Absolutely ZERO road feel through the steering, and despite the air suspension it wallowed around corners. Plenty power on tap.
Android Automotive is what they used. The demo vehicle kept asking for permissions for the infotainment system to do anything so software quality is still an issue. There were issues with certain functions like acceleration response only available while parked and not in any manner that made logical sense.
Lastly, expensive.
Lucid Air: Also big! Less road feel than a Tesla M3 but more than the P3. LOTS of power. Very refined interior.
Trunk entry is nuts! Big trunk, very small and weirdly shaped hatchway.
Lastly, VERY expensive.
Make of that what you will.
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