Honda and Nissan to merge, Honda will take the lead
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I loved my 280zx turbo, lusted over the Starion, same for the original nsx and s2000, my aunt had a nice boxy Lancer in the 80s and my 3 accords were awesome.
That said, i dont see how this benefits honda. Sorry nissan and mitsubishi, but its the truth.
That said, i dont see how this benefits honda. Sorry nissan and mitsubishi, but its the truth.
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You know, I've seen the statement I bolded a lot, and I've never understood it. I'll give you unreliable, but unfun is the exact opposite of my experience. I grew up on manual transmissions, and every non-CVT automatic I've ever driven has been absolute garbage; constantly getting stuck in the wrong gear and chugging along at 1k RPM or redlining for absolutely no reason. When I got my 2013 Altima, going 0-120 at a static RPM was a pretty damn fun experience, and helped ween me off manual transmissions. Which Nissan sadly killed by changing them in newer models to start simulating gear shifts.
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If this results in Honda CVTs displacing Nissan CVTs then the world will be a better place. But I was hoping to buy a Honda EV someday and this does not bode well.
I love the Honda CVT in my 2021 Accord. It's faster, more efficient, quieter, lighter, smaller, better NVH than the last ten old-timey automatic transmissions I've driven. And you can go full on to 60 MPH at the perfect RPM the whole way without all those powerless intervals that snap your head forward and back. But an electric car would be OK.
I love the Honda CVT in my 2021 Accord. It's faster, more efficient, quieter, lighter, smaller, better NVH than the last ten old-timey automatic transmissions I've driven. And you can go full on to 60 MPH at the perfect RPM the whole way without all those powerless intervals that snap your head forward and back. But an electric car would be OK.
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If you want to get on the highway? Yeah. I can show you some on-ramps where that would be dangerous. At least when we’re taking about trucks being that slow, I can more reliably trust the Class A behind the wheel (or at least their GPS) to have some sense and not take those ramps.
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The both (Honda and Nissan) had a lot of initial issues, and they both use a similar designed Pusher Belt CVT, often found in shredded mess. Here's a failed Honda CVT being disassembled:
Honda:
View: https://youtu.be/ncqYjOll7EQ?si=huzXqMMainMonNdi&t=622
Nissan:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_64zEsMdQ9A
FWIW, Toyota has the same design:
View: https://youtu.be/cwo1QxGmmEc?si=wTjuRSFua2jbz5-p&t=100
The pusher-belts are extremely fragile and I would NEVER buy any car with one. Even when found intact they need careful handling, or they can easily just fall to pieces. I've seen one rebuilt and they had zip ties to hold the belt together during assembly. That's how fragile they are.
OTOH, in it's CVT, Subaru uses and extremely robust chain. Something else might fail in a Subaru CVT, but that Chain is not going to turn into shrapnel like the Honda/Nissan CVTs. I've never seen a Subaru CVT belt in pieces like the Honda/Nissan/Toyota ones.
View: https://youtu.be/RqDZqs5Jxp0?si=5RsDwnh2zF6cujYq&t=731
If forced to get some type of CVT, I'd either get a Subaru one or an eCVT (not really a CVT) from Honda/Toyota.
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Nissan also has a decent 4WD offering, and is quite popular in Australia. Both the Nissan Patrol and Nissan Navara are reliable vehicles for off-roading. The Honda CRV is about as big as those vehicles get here. So at least in the Australian market there's some room working together.
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DaVuVuZeLa
Ars Tribunus Militum
Mitsuishi has PHEV technology and actual EV expertise, which is something both Nissan and Honda lack. They're going to need it if they at minimum want to compete against Toyota.
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I rented a Nissan Note. Actually, it was rented to me when someone ploughed into the back of my car. I never heard of the car model before. It had manual windows and no carpeting. It had an engine which was probably better measured in hamsters rather than horsepower.
It was the Japanese version of the Chevy Lumina. All I can say it convinced me never to buy a Nissan.
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My Mercedes 300TD was also a five-cylinder. (The 240D had basically the same engine, minus one cylinder and the turbocharger.) A six would have been rather long for the available engine bay space.I've got a Volkswagen New Beetle with a five cylinder motor in it. Never looked into how they balanced it. More interested in WHY they made it in the first place. I get the three cylinder - those have been around forever as a concept. Geo metro had a 3-cylinder gas motor. Kubota has a 3cyl diesel. But a five cylinder gas engine? Why?
Don't get me wrong, it runs fine, lots of power. Sounds little odd, but haven't had any problems with it.
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I'm on my fourth - and I suppose my last, since they are discontinuing them - Nissan Titan. I run them until they hit around 150K on the odometer, then go trade them in for a new one. Never had a significant problem with one, and the truth is they are fantastic trucks. The 5.6L V8 is a fire-breathing stump-puller of an engine. Handles well, sure-footed, great 4WD system. Perfect for towing. Great interiors. The only consistent downside is they get terrible gas mileage, but that's not unusual for a truck you're going to tow campers, boats, and trailers with.
Unfortunately they never really caught on in the US market. I suspect the design of the early Titans was a little too visually ambitious for conservative US truck buyers. It just looked a little too different. I'll miss the Titans, and I'll miss Nissan too, although even I'd have to admit it's been a decade since the company did anything innovative at all.
Unfortunately they never really caught on in the US market. I suspect the design of the early Titans was a little too visually ambitious for conservative US truck buyers. It just looked a little too different. I'll miss the Titans, and I'll miss Nissan too, although even I'd have to admit it's been a decade since the company did anything innovative at all.
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My 2018 Clarity seems pretty well screwed together, but it's a low-volume compliance car so it may be an exception to the rule. The only real issue I've had with it so far is it had to be taken in for a fuel pump recall.
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That was going to be along the lines of my response.
Nissan globally is big in the SUV segment with dozens of well selling models something Honda does not.
Plus they have many well developed diesel engines, EV may be the fuel of the future in developed nations but diesel is going to rule for decades to come elsewhere, and Honda wouldnt want to waste money developing new ICE engines.
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Lots of Patrols in Australia. Consensus seems to be "not as good as a LandCruiser, but good enough for the (lower) price".
Edit: Nija'd of course.
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The real burning question is what will the new merged company be called?
Ninda?
Hossan?
Ninda?
Hossan?
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It is easy to see what Honda is after, the Renault/Nissan CMF-EV/AmpR BEV platforms are something like 5 to 10 years ahead of Hondas BEV tech.
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It wasn't Nissan themselves that did that bit of innovation, it was a "rogue engineer (CEO)"
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I have fond memories of Nissan - last car was a 2006 design, 2011 built Note. And having it in stick with the old 1.6L 4 meant it didn't have any problems beyond being a bit dull. But in 2024 Nissan wasn't even on my long list and we got a 2020 cx5.
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The GT-R is going away so I see no advantage of merging. Even the current GT-R is soulless. Great performance car, but not engaging like a Miata, if that makes sense. Back when they were called Datsun they had some good cars, even the Hardbodies were well received.
Having owned a recent Nissan that was the most uncomfortable car we have owned and the only one in decades to leave someone stranded multiple times, I will not buy another. Probably won't look at Honda now either.
Having owned a recent Nissan that was the most uncomfortable car we have owned and the only one in decades to leave someone stranded multiple times, I will not buy another. Probably won't look at Honda now either.
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Because Mercedes took $4.1b from Chrysler and killed Chrysler's development cycle. And the ME-412.
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And they have a lot of experience with the 5 considering Audi started using them decades ago.
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I suddenly had the image of a giant getting a little baggie and picking up a Nissan Rogue.
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Patrol is the Armada in the USA/Canada, Navara is the Frontier. So we get those, but they barely register. The best Selling Nissan in both Australia and North America is the X-Trail (Aus)/Rogue (NA) - again same vehicle different name, and standard Unibody FWD based SUV.
Old School Body on Frame is overrated these days for just about anything but full size pickup trucks, and a niche of very hard core off roaders.
For a midsize pickups most people are better off with a unibody Ridgeline than a Nissan Frontier.
For nearly any SUV, unibody is likely superior. Jeep went Unibody with Cherokee XJ in 1984, and those remain popular for off-roading to this day. Jeep Grand Cherokee is also Unibody.
Honda could have developed body on frame truck by now, if they felt it was important, but as time passes the importance of BoF seems to be diminishing, so merging with Nissan for BoF trucks seems kind of pointless, but I suppose since Honda might have been given some Lemons (by Japanese government) they should try to find some small amount of Lemonade.
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There isn't really a way to say this without coming off as a bit of a jerk to strangers on the road, but the majority of people are just bad at driving and a fast car is just compensating for their lack of confidence and skill. My car makes a 9 second 0-60 and I have never once felt unsafe merging. I promise I'm not trying to be condescending but if you have a slow car you have to use gas ahead of the merge, you have to be proactive aligning to a spot, and you have to have the confidence execute. But most people drive in a reactionary manner, so a slow car seems dangerous to them because they're not used to having to anticipate what they need to do to stay safe.
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Get up to 70 or 80 MPH while navigating a tight curve, unable to see the oncoming highway traffic until you are level with it, at which point you have only a short and rapidly diminishing runway to correct for any errors, and then yeeting yourself into traffic -- yeah, it's pretty clear why people want to be cautious at an onramp. Speaking for myself, I travel miles out of my way to get to onramps that are long enough and do have good enough visibility to merge safely. But the safety of a merge really depends on where you live and how the civil engineers felt that morning when they designed it.
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I wouldn't call it dangerous, but I would call it annoying. Though it might be hard to find a car that slow in the USA today.
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Maybe Im alone in this but Ive never once bought a car based on looks.
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I'm getting that "DEC merges with Compaq merges with HP and the products just get worse and worse and worse" vibe. At the time somebody referred to one of these as "trying to get two drunks to stand up straight by leaning them against each other". (Probably not an exact quote.)
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The trouble with combining a half glass of water and a half glass of piss is that you end up with a glass full of piss.
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I wish I understood what was driving this merger. What strengths does Nissan actually have that make it enticing to Honda? Do they envision gaining access to Renault engines to power snowmobiles, or some other weird oblique angle that nobody's considered?
Otherwise, as you put it - Honda's just diluting their brand with piss.
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When I drove a slow car my solution was just to not use the on-ramps that were like that. There was usually a better one less than a mile away. But again, planning ahead. It's a lost art with today's drivers.
Also we need speed cameras or better enforcement so people don't have to merge into 80 mph traffic.
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Our 2012 Nissan Cube has been perfect, it's now 2024 and still going. The thing with Nissans is you have to keep care of them, regular maintenance is the key. Of course this car was built in Japan., not sure how much that matters though.
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Tell me without telling me that you've never driven a Z or Skyline
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NUMMI was Chevrolet + Toyota, or Chevota, or Toylet.
Honda + Nissan = ?
Hondasan?
Nisonda?
Datsonda?
Hondatsun?
Hmmm, needs work.
Honda + Nissan = ?
Hondasan?
Nisonda?
Datsonda?
Hondatsun?
Hmmm, needs work.
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Man, how the mighty seem to have fallen. Orwell family Nissans: 240z, 280zx (X2), Stanza, Quest (x2 -- one of which, the 94, is still going as my San Diego mechanic's work truck with 550k miles on) Maxima (still going, in family, 233k) Sentra (totalled by red light runner.) Rogue (X2, both still going strong)
None of them have been mechanically totalled, which I've had happen to several Chevy, a Ford, and two Kia.
I don't get the Nissan hate. They've been pretty darn good in my experience.
None of them have been mechanically totalled, which I've had happen to several Chevy, a Ford, and two Kia.
I don't get the Nissan hate. They've been pretty darn good in my experience.
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The complicated and inexplicable nature about the Japanese zaibatsu system means that just because two company are both named Mitsubishi doesn’t necessarily mean they are financially or strategically allied.
Although Mitsubishi Motor did grow out of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which makes aircraft and ships, MHI only holds 1.4% of MM’s share currently, having diluted its holding several times over the last half-century as MMC went through crisis after crisis, bailout after bailout. MMC today is majority owned by a combination of Nissan and Mitsubishi Corporation, the group’s trading arm and arguably its most powerful company. MHI, on the other hand, does not have any significant shareholding with any other Mitsubishi group company, including MC. In other words, there is very little influence MHI can wield on MMC and vice versa.
As for throwing in the towel, MMC has been an albatross around the Mitsubishi group’s neck basically nonstop since the company was first spun out of MHI in 1970. This is just the latest in the many, many desperate attempts by the rest of the Mitsubishi group to get someone to please take the goddamned thing off their hands without dismantling the Japanese manufacturing sector*. They tried with Chrysler, they tried with Daimler, they tried with Nissan. Will Honda finally do the trick? Your guess is as good as mine.
* This is not just for the optics or the government. The automotive industry has a mind-boggling array of manufacturing sectors hanging off of it for various parts and supplies, all of which would go into a tailspin when an OEM dies, introducing knock-on effects onto other parts of Mitsubishi’s vast empire.
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There is also the Pajero, which admittedly they decided to not keep updating and developing.
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Because they switched to turning out junk.
Nissan doesn't get to coast on previous models it doesn't make anymore. 240z was more than 40 years ago. Most of those cars aren't made anymore.
Why would cars Nissan doesn't build anymore influence anyone's choices?
The modern Nissan lineup is mostly lackluster, CVT based models. Nissan CVTs probably have the worse record for imploding of any modern transmission.
With lackluster models with an earned reputation for an unreliable drivetrain, it's no surprise that Nissan is circling the drain, and needs to be rescued by Honda.
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