GM faces ban on selling driver data that can be used to raise insurance rates

GM sold geolocation and other driving data without adequate consent, FTC says.

See full article...

 

[deltaproximus]

(Hopefully ninja'd)

Which privacy plug-in? Recommendations?

Port Authority is the plugin that gave me the notification. On Firefox.
https://github.com/ACK-J/Port_Authority

 

[jdale]

To take this back to the story about TikTok: this is another example where the correct fix--comprehensive data stewardship regulation--would be the right thing to do, but what we get is a weaksauce negotiated option as a sop to industry lobbyists.

Americans can be relied to do the right thing, once every other avenue is exhausted.

But apparently once they finally get there, you can't rely on them continuing to do it for more than one presidential term.

 

[theotherjim]

That's like saying "don't hate the player, hate the game", which is one of the most annoying cop outs.

I'm tired of excuses. I want corporations and corporate executives to see real penalties that actually hurt them and make them stop being shitheads.

You and Luigi Mangione.

 

[21five]

Worth noting that in the most populous state, California, using telematics to set insurance rates is illegal, thanks to Prop 103 back in 1988.

Telematics wasn’t directly covered, but Prop 103 limited the factors insurers could incorporate into rate calculations.

Specifically, they can only include three things:
1. Driving record
2. Driving distance
3. Years of experience

They can also request to include anything else that has been demonstrated to have a substantial relationship to the risk of loss (eg garaging location).

Funnily enough, car insurers haven’t been able to demonstrate a connection between telematics data and the risk of loss.

Prop 103 text: https://consumerwatchdog.org/insurance/text-proposition-103/

 

[Legatum_of_Kain]

What data are they using? Because I was under the impression it was accidents (that you were at fault for) that raised rates, not just 'driving' regularly without an accident happening. If I have to brake hard, that's AVOIDING an accident. If I swerve, that's AVOIDING an accident. How and why would that data impact me negatively?

Ah, I see you have thought critically about the quality of data and the meaning of data.

You either purposely or accidentally understand statistics as a science, therefore are fired from any position that uses them.

We, the wealthy class that own the planet are only interested in whatever benefits us, nothing else. - The 1%

 

[Ishkabibbel]

Maybe if we had a Congress that was more interested in making laws that benefit the people they're elected to serve than engaging in pissing contests and getting re-elected, we could have actual privacy laws.

 

[sd70mac]

Has anyone ever been notified that their insurance rates are being LOWERED because of data from one of those in-car tracking devices?
My assumption is that such devices are only used to identify people at greater risk of filing claims, people at lower risk are just part of the profit margin and should be left alone at their current rates.

While I’ve heard of companies that do this tracking advertising lower rates to get people to switch to one of these plans, it seems like it usually results in a rate increase in the long run unless the driver uses their car very little (100 miles per week or less).

 

[SpankyFrost]

Has anyone ever been notified that their insurance rates are being LOWERED because of data from one of those in-car tracking devices?
My assumption is that such devices are only used to identify people at greater risk of filing claims, people at lower risk are just part of the profit margin and should be left alone at their current rates.

Kinda sad statement. Do you, or anyone for that matter, know how the insurance companies algorithm work when applying for insurance? Of course you don't. Most will tell you it is controlled by corporate. Ever wonder why the insurance companies REQUIRE a VIN before getting a quote? And absolutely no insurance company is going to LOWER your rates without YOU, as the consumer, to initiate some kind of clause. I sometimes feel like I am outside looking in...

 

[SpankyFrost]

Maybe if we had a Congress that was more interested in making laws that benefit the people they're elected to serve than engaging in pissing contests and getting re-elected, we could have actual privacy laws.

Maybe if we had a flock of voters that were educated and know how to use their brains before voting, that COULD change. But don't hold your breath. And I am not saying everyone is stupid and uneducated. But take a peek of the masses in the Trump rallies. Most certainly aren't your common respectable upright citizen. With tiktok gone on sunday, perhaps some will actually read the real news in 2026 mid-terms. maybe not.

 

[Godspeec]

Why do the right thing if you can be nefarious and get your bonus and a promotion.

 

[Godspeec]

To take this back to the story about TikTok: this is another example where the correct fix--comprehensive data stewardship regulation--would be the right thing to do, but what we get is a weaksauce negotiated option as a sop to industry lobbyists.

Americans can be relied to do the right thing, once every other avenue is exhausted.

Nah, under Trump grift will explode. Eeeveryone will be grifting come next week.

 

[ArsLoginName]

I'm reacting viscerally to the involvement of LexisNexis before I got through the whole article.

LexisNexis is a voracious data hog and should be constrained. I was ordering take out from a local Thai restaurant using their webpage a couple weeks ago, and one of my privacy plugins warned me that it blocked a LexisNexis endpoint in the page. They're building in tracking into website and e-commerce packages used by mom and pop stores.

Maybe that's worthy of its own article, honestly.

Agee 100%. LexisNexus should be investigated. They obtained information about myself that I did not ever give publically or post socially. They had to obtain it from a former landlord/apartment rental company 20 years ago. Info which I had to list to get an apartment when starting out but never thought it would be sold. Further, back then, I am pretty sure the lease terms did not list anything about the apartment companies rights to sell my personal information on my rental form. So double shady.

 

[AlexIL]

To me it seems that most popular cars will be anything manufactured on or before 2007.

 

[mcswell]

My car beeps a warning when it thinks I'm in danger of hitting the car in front of me. Occasionally it's right, but usually it's because that car is turning off of the road and the system somehow thinks I'm going that way too. I would guess that those warnings are also sent to insurance companies, despite the fact that they're a false alarm.

 

[Snark218]

Mary Barra and her cohort haven't strayed even close to the worst CEOs GM ever had, but this fantasy that they can make serious money on selling their customer's data and privacy invasions is going to stand as their most odious and stupid error.

 

[Snark218]

To me it seems that most popular cars will be anything manufactured on or before 2007.

Don't even try to convince yourself anyone gives enough of a shit about this to stop buying new cars.

 

[crosslink]

If you are driving defensively, and keeping safe distances, theoretically, you'll not have to break hard.

And it's not about you specifically, but they can analyze the data, and show, as a group, people who break hard at least every xxxx miles, are more likely to be involved in a wreck. Doesn't matter if its your fault or not, its a wreck, and could cost them money.

Give them data and they will make algorithms. Nobody gets to look into those, so we have only their good word to go on from there.

 

[RTGonzo]

Only a few years and only for select recipients? This needs to be FOREVER and across the board. No disclosure ever to any 3rd party. For that matter the collection should be banned forever as well.

 

[Rabid Hungarian]

With 40,000 auto deaths a year in the USA alone, all cars should be geolocated like this and GPS speed limited.

Or you can just take the bus.

 

[JWLong]

I'm reacting viscerally to the involvement of LexisNexis before I got through the whole article.

LexisNexis is a voracious data hog and should be constrained. I was ordering take out from a local Thai restaurant using their webpage a couple weeks ago, and one of my privacy plugins warned me that it blocked a LexisNexis endpoint in the page. They're building in tracking into website and e-commerce packages used by mom and pop stores.

Maybe that's worthy of it's own article, honestly.

I 'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you don't know, or are unaware of what Google, Microsoft, Meta, Instagram, X, and a crap load of other internet Kingpins do everyday with your info. Even when you don't have an account with any of them.

Here, enlighten yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=1+pixel+tracking+imager

And that's not all folks.........

 

[deltaproximus]

I 'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you don't know, or are unaware of what Google, Microsoft, Meta, Instagram, X, and a crap load of other internet Kingpins do everyday with your info. Even when you don't have an account with any of them.

Here, enlighten yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=1+pixel+tracking+imager

And that's not all folks.........

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you don't understand that a single statement can have a narrow context and not say anything meaningful about a person's views or level of knowledge in other contexts.

ETA: or, you're arguing that I shouldn't be upset at further privacy intrusion just because my privacy has been intruded elsewhere.

 

[Just V]

Another spineless fucking settlement with no penalty. Great work, you (FTC) fucking losers.

FTC can't fine any entity more than is allowed by law.

Laws were never written to account for billionaires. Laws have not been updated to account for billionaires. Laws simply do not apply to billionaires or corporations - the fines are how much it costs to break the law repeatedly.

US consumer protection laws are almost nonexistent at this point, but there's plenty of regulatory capture to go around for American corporations.

 

[Chmilz]

I did that once out of curiosity for whatever the initial data gathering period was for my car insurance. It's really pretty useless overall from me. The only time I really drove was for work (~20 miles there and back, all highway, during normal rush hour traffic) and my discount wound up being like 3-5%, so, like $50/year. With the device in my car I made sure to never go more than 5mph over the speed limit. Maybe even just that was the reason it was such a paltry discount. I assume that the only meaningful discount available will be for those who basically don't drive or drive very little in non-rush hour traffic. I returned the device after that and never thought about it again.

The "discount" will be a slight reduction to the future increases, reduced from "exorbitant" to only "painful".

 

[nwexplorer]

The settlement is under the FTC's purview, though, no?

Yes, but if contested, the courts can accept or reject it. In a nutshell, regulations in force are included under Adminstrative Laws. Just as adminstrative codes define how a statute is implemented and sets procedural and monetary allowances.

 

[croc123]

It is really starting to bite, eh... Americans' are reaping the rewards of getting the best laws money can buy.

Trump will soon change citizenship, setting up a three tiered (or maybe five?) system based on capital worth.

Tier one, you are really worth a lot, AND trump's buddy... You can murder anyone anywhere with a free get-out-of jail card, multiple use.

Tier 2, uber-wealthy but NOT Trump's buddy. Better watch your ass,,,,

Tier 3 just have enough to get by, or maybe a bit more. ou CAN'T be Trump's buddy, but unless you vote for him, you are probably looking at jail time.

Everyone else, the immigration cops are looking for you.

 

[Maton]

Honestly I am waiting for rates to go up because "you drive an older vehicle and we can't track your driving behavior"...

I'm waiting to get the letter that either I install their OBD2 tracker or my rate will be doubled.

 

[FSTargetDrone]

Why only five years? Why not forever, and apply that to all other companies as well?

How about, “Forever in perpetuity throughout the Universe”?

 

[DarthSlack]

Americans can be relied to do the right thing, once every other avenue is exhausted.

That.....

Used to be true. Nowadays Americans can be relied to do the right thing once we've take 12 or 15 laps around every other avenue. Because it's hard to really exhaust and avenue. And even then we may go back one or twice more just to prove to 100% accuracy that nope, that avenue ain't workin'.

 

[ninjaneer]

I'm waiting to get the letter that either I install their OBD2 tracker or my rate will be doubled.

They won't work on some cars. My port is behind the fuse panel cover.

 

[DaVuVuZeLa]

Pulls For Sale sign off the Miata.....again

 

[GILDude]

What data are they using? Because I was under the impression it was accidents (that you were at fault for) that raised rates, not just 'driving' regularly without an accident happening. If I have to brake hard, that's AVOIDING an accident. If I swerve, that's AVOIDING an accident. How and why would that data impact me negatively?

If you brake hard once or twice, sure, you are correct. If you do it frequently, the assumption is that you are a tailgater and will cause an accident and thus you get grouped with the "poor and aggressive drivers" cohort and get higher rates.

 

[JWLong]

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you don't understand that a single statement can have a narrow context and not say anything meaningful about a person's views or level of knowledge in other contexts.

ETA: or, you're arguing that I shouldn't be upset at further privacy intrusion just because my privacy has been intruded elsewhere.

What, you think only insurance companies are doing this? Amazon makes most of their money tracking you online and selling that information to anybody...........

But, if you don't give a shit about that then you become part of the problem.

 

[sleepyox]

What data are they using? Because I was under the impression it was accidents (that you were at fault for) that raised rates, not just 'driving' regularly without an accident happening. If I have to brake hard, that's AVOIDING an accident. If I swerve, that's AVOIDING an accident. How and why would that data impact me negatively?

Has anyone ever been notified that their insurance rates are being LOWERED because of data from one of those in-car tracking devices?
My assumption is that such devices are only used to identify people at greater risk of filing claims, people at lower risk are just part of the profit margin and should be left alone at their current rates.

I too would be interested in HOW insurers are using this data and whether it is possible to force them to be transparent about how any i formation factors into their insurer rate calculations. This must never be a scammer's secret, it is a matter of public interest to ensure insurers aren't skimming off the top.

 

[wavelet]

With 40,000 auto deaths a year in the USA alone, all cars should be geolocated like this and GPS speed limited.

GPS by itself is a passive receiver. It would be quite possible to limit vehicle speed without any recordkeeping of location, let alone letting unknown 3d parties make hay from the data.
Also, the difference between GPS speed and the car-identified speed isn't significant enough to matter. There are cars out there that use real distance/speed data to calculate fuel efficiency, but show a different, higher speed on the speedometer (the LEAF, at the very least, does this).

 

[wavelet]

'forever' is a problem with contracts/agreements. As said above, strong privacy and data security laws are needed. So of course it's not what we'll get.

The US needs a right-to-privacy amendment to the constitution, and something very much like the EU's GDPR.

 

[wavelet]

Mary Barra and her cohort haven't strayed even close to the worst CEOs GM ever had, but this fantasy that they can make serious money on selling their customer's data and privacy invasions is going to stand as their most odious and stupid error.

It's not just GM. All vehicle manufacturers are quaking that the switch to BEVs will seriously lower their profits (the drivetrain needs a lot less maintenance; the US DoE has conducted a big study that concluded that BEV maintenance will be 40% less than an equivalent-size/form factor ICEV. The difference is only 40% because BEVs still have all the same other components w.r.t. body, suspension , steering, brakes, safety systems, interior etc.)
All of them are on record as trying to make up for this by collecting driver data and selling it (at the very least, for advertising purposes).
Can you recall a single new vehicle model launched in the past decade which isn't a "connected car"?

 

[wavelet]

Don't even try to convince yourself anyone gives enough of a shit about this to stop buying new cars.

I grant you very few, but there are people who care enough to try, or buy a car where you can remove the SIM.
My current 2017 car isn't connected. I removable SIM to be a major requirement of my next car.

 

[wavelet]

Or you can just take the bus.

Yup.
Buses are 10x as safe as cars on a per-passenger mile basis.
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/deaths-by-transportation-mode/

 

[deltaproximus]

What, you think only insurance companies are doing this? Amazon makes most of their money tracking you online and selling that information to anybody...........

But, if you don't give a shit about that then you become part of the problem.

Ok, so you're saying because I didn't write a 300,000 page thesis document about all the intrusive privacy practices in the entire world, I must only be aware of or only care about one single instance of a privacy intrusion? I might as well respond with "If you think Amazon is bad, you must not care about how terrible Equifax is, which makes you part of the problem!" You see how absurd that is?

Lexis Nexis was brought up specifically in the original article. I had an anecdote to share about Lexis Nexis. That's all. The fact that you're trying to extrapolate from this to some greater ignorance or lack of concern of mine is, quite frankly, stupid.

I get Lexis Nexis isn't the only problematic data broker/data collector out there. We weren't talking about those before you decided that not talking about those makes me an idiot or complicit.

 

[MMarsh]

They want any/all data they can get.

Its the same problem as the OBD trackers some insurance push for - and they can't take things into account like why you did something.

They can look at how fast people drive (e.g. if you're dong 80 in a state with max 70 speed limits, you are higher risk breaking laws and more likely to do something dangerous.

They look at how hard you accelerate/brake, and assume "many people who brake/swerve/accelerate hard are aggressive or not paying attention, so anyone who does this is higher risk"

They also look at number of trips - Hybrids had issues for quite some time where trackers would count every "engine start" as a new trip so people would be flagged for "high risk" doing 100 short trips when they were really just going slow in traffic with the Hybrid transitioning frequently between battery and engine operation on a regular commute.

When our insurance was trying to push a tracker I was reading up...many people suggested running a light turned red on higher speed roads because "its better than stopping and getting dinged for hard braking as long as you don't crash insurance won't know". That was a terrifying suggestion to find in a forum!

Near where I live, we have a real problem with people merging too slowly. There are short on-ramps into 110 km/h traffic. You floor it, match speed and merge. Easy. But then you get people trying to merge at 80 km/h and others have to brake hard or swerve around them.

The widespread belief is that it's because of trackers that threaten to penalize you for exceeding 2500 rpm or whatever.

The technology needed to assess a driver's skill this way does not exist. It probably can't exist; it's fundamentally impossible to assess driving skill without visual context.

The insurers who say otherwise are full of BS. "This thing lets us refine your rates in 5% increments" meanwhile five different underwriters reviewing identical policies for the same car and driver can't agree on the premium to within a 300% spread. They aren't nearly as good with data as they claim to be; they just have to be good enough to not slip into the red on the quarterly reports.