F1 2025

[HydraShok]

2024 was an amazing F1 year in which, by all accounts, everyone was expecting to be another Max Verstappen gong show all year and turned out to be anything but. Three months until the first race of 2025, which I'm sure will fly by, even after such a long 2024 season, and yet I can't resist starting the new thread because there's already drama brewing for next year, and moves, developments, and rivalries to build. I've truly enjoyed the previous F1 threads and all those who have participated, and hope to have another great one for/in 2025!

Next year is seemingly poised to be a heavily contested Driver and Constructor's Championships; bring in new faces with Doohan, Antonelli, Bearman, and Bortoleto; see some familiar faces with new teams in Hamilton, Hulkenberg, Ocon, and Sainz; and, of course, drama galore!

On to the schedule!

2025 F1 calendar​

Round	Date	Country	Venue
1	March 14-16	Australia	Melbourne
2	March 21-23	China	Shanghai
3	April 4-6	Japan	Suzuka
4	April 11-13	Bahrain	Sakhir
5	April 18-20	Saudi Arabia	Jeddah
6	May 2-4	USA	Miami
7	May 16-18	Italy	Imola
8	May 23-25	Monaco	Monaco
9	May 30 – June 1	Spain	Barcelona
10	June 13-15	Canada	Montreal
11	June 27-29	Austria	Spielberg
12	July 4-6	United Kingdom	Silverstone
13	July 25-27	Belgium	Spa
14	August 1-3	Hungary	Budapest
15	August 29-31	Netherlands	Zandvoort
16	September 5-7	Italy	Monza
17	September 19-21	Azerbaijan	Baku
18	October 3-5	Singapore	Singapore
19	October 17-19	USA	Austin
20	October 24-26	Mexico	Mexico City
21	November 7-9	Brazil	Sao Paulo
22	November 20-22	USA	Las Vegas
23	November 28-30	Qatar	Lusail
24	December 5-7	Abu Dhabi	Yas Marina

When the time comes, what would you all think of doing an Ars F1 Fantasy league? I had a team last year, but it wasn't as interesting having no one to compete against!

My fun prediction: Sainz gets a podium finish in the Williams.

I'm curious if we can get @Diabolical to hit the character limit with The New(tm) List...

Fantasy Football F1 Forum Fanstravaganza Here!

 

[HydraShok]

And let's jump in -- Red Bull will issue a decision on Perez "soon". I wish they'd just make a decision and move on.



https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-red-bull-driver-announcement-imminent-sergio-perez
Driver list as of today --

 

[HydraShok]

Alisha Palmowski will drive for Red Bull next year in F1A, replacing Hamda Al Qubaisi, who hit her two year time limit for the series.

https://www.f1academy.com/Latest/4y...almowski-to-drive-for-red-bull-racing-in-2025

 

[Tijger]

Only 4 months to wait

 

[HydraShok]

Only 4 months to wait

Sure about that?

 

[RandomZero]

Thanks for getting the new one started! I just cannot wait to see Lewis in that Ferrari suit.

 

[RandomZero]

When the time comes, what would you all think of doing an Ars F1 Fantasy league? I had a team last year, but it wasn't as interesting having no one to compete against!

I have never really played with any fantasy stuff, but as long as it's not something people would get super serious over, I'd be interested.

 

[HydraShok]

To tell you how casual my last year was in Fantasy F1, I had Ricciardo in my team, and I'm pretty sure it was about 4 weeks after he was dropped before I remembered to change him out. Can't speak for the others here, but I very much view it as a fun addition and nothing more.

But if you're going to bring it; it's on.

 

[Diabolical]

I'd be down for (forgetting about) an Ars F1 Fantasy Team.


Also two things of note:

Livery Reveals! February 18th
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...veries-at-dedicated-london-o2-event/10672358/
Preseason Testing! February 26th to the 28th. In Bahrain.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...025-pre-season-testing.586OT31AUTKcOOtRCGYvMV

 

[Numfuddle]

I'm currently mostly annoyed by the ongoing Perez will he/won't he saga.

The scuttlebutt from the end of season tests is that Tsunoda did impress and did perform very well and also did offer good insight into the car handling and how to improve it (what he said seems to align with what they already know so they apparently could double check his statements).

The scuttlebutt is also that Lawson is still the favorite for Perez' seat.

The main hang up with Perez' future seems to be money but not his salary. Both Horner and Marko confirmed that the new contract they gave Perez includes a number of different performance clauses so firing Perez is not the issue. The issue seems to be that Perez is bringing in most of the sponsor money while Verstappen is bringing in very little. A few articles I saw put Perez sponsors at somewhere in the 30 - 40 million dollar range with an unnamed Red Bull employee stating that Perez is basically also paying for Verstappen's salary with the amount of money he brings in.

edit: it seems to be official now? Sky and a few other outlets report that Perez is definitely leaving Red Bull for 2025 and will be replaced by Liam Lawson with Yuki Tsunoda and Isack Hadjar at VCARB

 

[RandomZero]

Same, it needs to end. And honestly I feel like Yuki is getting fucked here.

Is there something that backs up the money situation around Checo and RBR? I find it hard to believe Max isn't bringing any money in, unless all the sponsor bucks are going straight to his bank account for some reason.

 

[Numfuddle]

Same, it needs to end. And honestly I feel like Yuki is getting fucked here.

Is there something that backs up the money situation around Checo and RBR? I find it hard to believe Max isn't bringing any money in, unless all the sponsor bucks are going straight to his bank account for some reason.

For example:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/sergio-perez-sponsorship-net-worth-mexican-gp-exit-debunked
https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/th...ex-have-poured-into-red-bull-since-he-joined/
https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-4...t-as-max-verstappen-loses-10-year-old-patron/
edit:

https://www.si.com/fannation/racing...stappen-s-staggering-salary-01hzfc5b4pj7-lm22

 

[Tijger]

Same, it needs to end. And honestly I feel like Yuki is getting fucked here.

Is there something that backs up the money situation around Checo and RBR? I find it hard to believe Max isn't bringing any money in, unless all the sponsor bucks are going straight to his bank account for some reason.

Tsunoda's blessing and his curse is his direct Honda connection, after 2025 Red Bull teams wont have Honda engines anymore and like Honda, Ford might want someone aligned with them in a Red Bull seat. Wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if it was going to be a US driver.

Max doesnt need to bring in any money, he brings in championships. And as a result you get companies like Oracle paying 200 million a year to put their name on the team and the car.
Checo linked sponsors are nice but hardly important, in todays climate and interest level I'd find it very, VERY, hard to believe RBR couldnt replace those with ease nor is it a given they would leave when Checo leaves F1.

 

[HydraShok]

edit: it seems to be official now? Sky and a few other outlets report that Perez is definitely leaving Red Bull for 2025 and will be replaced by Liam Lawson with Yuki Tsunoda and Isack Hadjar at VCARB

I've seen a few articles this morning as well saying that an announcement will be made today. Sounds like it's a done deal. I'm sure they want to take care of it quickly so they can get the teams aligned for development time before Bahrain.

 

[MorsePacific]

To tell you how casual my last year was in Fantasy F1, I had Ricciardo in my team, and I'm pretty sure it was about 4 weeks after he was dropped before I remembered to change him out. Can't speak for the others here, but I very much view it as a fun addition and nothing more.

But if you're going to bring it; it's on.

View attachment 97930

I've been in an F1 Fantasy League for a couple of seasons now and often forget about it, but I'm in!

 

[HydraShok]

Tsunoda's blessing and his curse is his direct Honda connection, after 2025 Red Bull teams wont have Honda engines anymore and like Honda, Ford might want someone aligned with them in a Red Bull seat. Wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if it was going to be a US driver.

And if that's the case he's really double-screwed because if he wants to keep that connection in 2026 he needs to be driving for Aston, and one of those seats (Lance) is off the table, and if they do replace Alonso anytime soon, it's probably not going to be for Yuki.

 

[Tijger]

And if that's the case he's really double-screwed because if he wants to keep that connection in 2026 he needs to be driving for Aston, and one of those seats (Lance) is off the table, and if they do replace Alonso anytime soon, it's probably not going to be for Yuki.

That is the case for Yuki, the only reason he got the seat a RB was because Honda wanted a Japanese driver. I'm not judging Yuki here, I love the guy but teams dont always choose drivers in a vacuum, sometimes there are other considerations that are more important than driving skill in play. That can be as simple as money, see Stroll and Latifi, but also national identities and (engine) partners.
I have no idea if Ford has such demands, dont get me wrong, but if they do then Yuki is going to be the odd man out for sure.

Lets face it, at the end of the day this is a hard nosed business as all professional sports are and there are numerous drivers who've either never made it into F1 due to lack of money/connections or not been able to stay for that reason though I think its getting better now that most teams seem to be profitable or at least break even which does alleviate the need to put drivers into a seat just because they bring in sponsorship money.

 

[Cognac]

I'm in for the fantasy league as well. Should be fun.

 

[HydraShok]

I have never really played with any fantasy stuff, but as long as it's not something people would get super serious over, I'd be interested.

I'd be down for (forgetting about) an Ars F1 Fantasy Team.

I've been in an F1 Fantasy League for a couple of seasons now and often forget about it, but I'm in!

I'm in for the fantasy league as well. Should be fun.

Fun! I'll keep an eye on the F1 site and post more details in this thread as the fantasy leagues reset for next year.

 

[RandomZero]

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the article links and explanations.

 

[zeotherm]

I'd be game for a F1 fantasy league. Sounds fun

 

[Kilkenny]

Oranging Papayaing

 

[Cranioclast]

I've started F1 fantasy on and off, but haven't been in a group that completed a season in over 20 years. I'd be up for trying again.

 

[Technarch]

Papayaing. I have no idea how to fantasy F1. But I have fantasy footballed for a couple of decades so I am used to losing, and would be happy to round out the bottom of an Ars fantasy F1 thing.

 

[Diabolical]

I'm gonna let the Magic 8 Ball O' Chaos pick my Fantasy F1 Team.
I'm doomed.

 

[Technarch]

I'm gonna let the Magic 8 Ball O' Chaos pick my Fantasy F1 Team.
I'm doomed.

In fantasy football that is often a winning strategy.

 

[Cognac]

I'm gonna let the Magic 8 Ball O' Chaos pick my Fantasy F1 Team.
I'm doomed.

You'll come out on top for sure.

 

[goates]

You'll come out on top for sure.

But does the Ball O'Chaos give him Stroll?

 

[trukker]

But does the Ball O'Chaos give him Stroll?

Wasn't it broken, so it absolutely should - at least until the Aston Martin mid-season improvement when they find out how to properly develop during the season.

I have no clue about running an F1 fantasy team, the last time I picked anything F1 it was choosing the final points order back when you only had to pick the top 6. Less finishers to worry about but still not easy. The chaos and uncertainty is part of the appeal of F1 / sports in general. I'm willing to try another guessing game.

 

[Arcturus]

Seems to be officially official:

 

[Smeghead]

If Lawson does end up in the senior team, I just hope that he doesn't get crushed the way as has happened to everyone else that's sat in that seat in recent memory. He doesn't deserve that. If Perez can be as mediocre as he's been and hang on to his seat for as long as he has, then a new driver deserves at least 2 seasons, especially given the huge rule changes coming in 2026.

At the end of the day, if Tsunoda isn't viewed as ready, then it's just further proof that Red Bull having a junior team is pointless. It hasn't consistently produced drivers that were ready for them; when the second seat becomes available, too often neither of the junior team's drivers are ready for it.

A mid-season replacement, a handful of races where you haven't set the world on fire compared to your teammate, and then the real possibility of being fast-tracked to the senior team after a quarter of a season doesn't exactly scream driver development, either.

 

[HydraShok]

Yep, just heard and came to post the news myself.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...clusion-of-2024-season.4W2fhxOqQQX47kx3FY5Cpp

At the end of the day, if Tsunoda isn't viewed as ready, then it's just further proof that Red Bull having a junior team is pointless. It hasn't consistently produced drivers that were ready for them; when the second seat becomes available, too often neither of the junior team's drivers are ready for it.

This I completely agree with. If the purpose of the junior team is to train drivers for the senior team, they sure seem to be doing a poor job in their development strategy.

 

[Numfuddle]

If Lawson does end up in the senior team, I just hope that he doesn't get crushed the way as has happened to everyone else that's sat in that seat in recent memory. He doesn't deserve that. If Perez can be as mediocre as he's been and hang on to his seat for as long as he has, then a new driver deserves at least 2 seasons, especially given the huge rule changes coming in 2026.

They are promoting him too soon like Gasly and Kvyiat and Albon before him so he’s set up to fail.

At the end of the day, if Tsunoda isn't viewed as ready, then it's just further proof that Red Bull having a junior team is pointless. It hasn't consistently produced drivers that were ready for them; when the second seat becomes available, too often neither of the junior team's drivers are ready for it.

Tsunoda has better results and has bested every team mate he went up agains. If Tsunoda is not ready for Red Bull then Lawson is even more not ready for prime time.

 

[HydraShok]

Tsunoda has better results and has bested every team mate he went up agains. If Tsunoda is not ready for Red Bull then Lawson is even more not ready for prime time.

I have to wonder just what it is about Tsunoda that RB doesn't like. He's been hot tempered in the past, but nothing crazy. Is it really just that they only have him in a seat because of the Honda partnership but don't consider him part of the driver pool or what?

 

[Numfuddle]

I have to wonder just what it is about Tsunoda that RB doesn't like. He's been hot tempered in the past, but nothing crazy. Is it really just that they only have him in a seat because of the Honda partnership but don't consider him part of the driver pool or what?

In contrast to what people in F1 like to believe F1 is very vibes and story line based and not as numbers and stats oriented with respect to athletes as other sports (like e.g. baseball). Teams also tend to over-value youth and new and exiting people over „known quantities„

Also scouting is shit in F1 and the lower rungs of the sport do not adequately prepare drivers for what they need to be capable of in F1.

Once a narrative „sticks“ you have a very hard time escaping from it as a driver and it follows you to every team. Positive or Negative. This is why for example Albon was almost out of F1 because he got „typecast“ as a failure from his stint at Red Bull. This is why Bottas is seen as a „reliable points scorer“ even though he has been washed for years now.

This is also why one good performance can skew the perception of teams and managers and how Red Bull ends up with hiring Nyck DeVries over one of their juniors or brings back Ricciardo against better knowledge.

Yuki is still seen as the young „hot head“ that is foul mouthed on radio and isn’t calm under pressure even though that’s no longer the case and he can’t really shake the preconceived notion that is now ingrained in the collective minds of F1.

Another reason is that Yuki is a Honda driver and was put at Toro Rosso because of the Red Bull/Honda partnership and Honda will be the engine partner of Aston Martin from 2026 so it is widely expected by the paddock that he’ll go to AM in 2026 and Red Bull probably doesn’t want a driver that isn’t „part of the Red Bull family“ especially given that the relationship with Honda is a bit fraught after the partnership ended.

 

[Tijger]

If Lawson does end up in the senior team, I just hope that he doesn't get crushed the way as has happened to everyone else that's sat in that seat in recent memory. He doesn't deserve that. If Perez can be as mediocre as he's been and hang on to his seat for as long as he has, then a new driver deserves at least 2 seasons, especially given the huge rule changes coming in 2026.

At the end of the day, if Tsunoda isn't viewed as ready, then it's just further proof that Red Bull having a junior team is pointless. It hasn't consistently produced drivers that were ready for them; when the second seat becomes available, too often neither of the junior team's drivers are ready for it.

A mid-season replacement, a handful of races where you haven't set the world on fire compared to your teammate, and then the real possibility of being fast-tracked to the senior team after a quarter of a season doesn't exactly scream driver development, either.

Tsunoda wasnt a RB junior and wasnt put in the RB team as a junior being groomed for bigger things, he was put in that seat because Honda demanded a Japanese driver so its not really fair to frame it like that.

I'd also point out that almost nobody has managed to produce drivers that have succeeded in F1 but that RB has done more than pretty much anyone else over the past 20 years.

 

[HydraShok]

Pretty cool sendoff from Ferrari for Sainz. Both he and his dad got to drive the 2022 car on track together.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ecial-send-off-with-f1.5XNR5JV4bZeyPF0AGh22GP

 

[Tijger]

Its official, Lawson will get Perez' seat in the RBR:

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/liam-lawson-gets-2025-red-bull-seat/
I'm very happy for him and I wish him all the best.

 

[Numfuddle]

Its official, Lawson will get Perez' seat in the RBR:

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/liam-lawson-gets-2025-red-bull-seat/
I'm very happy for him and I wish him all the best.

After the last ten years of the second seat at Red Bull being a revolving door and a place where driver careers die I'm no longer happy for anyone who ends up there.

Liam won't have an opportunity to challenge Verstappen because even if he were capable of Red Bull won't let him rock the boat and endanger thier golden goose. The best outcome is that Liam is seen as a "reliable number two driver" and will have that label stick to him, at worst he'll be replaced midseason because he doesn't perform to their expectations and unceremoniously dumped for the next hyped up driver.

 

[Tijger]

After the last ten years of the second seat at Red Bull being a revolving door and a place where driver careers die I'm no longer happy for anyone who ends up there.

Liam won't have an opportunity to challenge Verstappen because even if he were capable of Red Bull won't let him rock the boat and endanger thier golden goose. The best outcome is that Liam is seen as a "reliable number two driver" and will have that label stick to him, at worst he'll be replaced midseason because he doesn't perform to their expectations and unceremoniously dumped for the next hyped up driver.

Come on, thats bull. Max never had any issue with Red Bull trying to get Lando into the RBR multiple times and if there's anyone that could get close to him on speed it would be Lando, Max doesnt feel threathened by any driver and if a driver beats him he makes no issue of it, he's never made any negative comment about Checo when he won GP's and beat Max except to say he himself should do better.