CrystalMark Retro benchmark extends support all the way back to Windows 95

dme123

Smack-Fu Master, in training
89
I lost most of my old hardware in a recent downsizing move. I did keep one system: a dual Pentium II system with every drive bay filled with Plextor 4X speed CD-R gear. Nothing since has ever matched the ability of those drives to read through scratches and rip anything. I have known torture test CDs that are barely Redbook legal, and usually when I put them in a modern DVD player I can’t play the start or end of them. Music before track 1 and after 74 minutes, you don’t know what you’ll get now. This era of Plextor drives handle it all without stuttering or skipping.
They really were the daddy of optical drives at that point; expensive but absolutely worth it.

It was sad to see them become just a brand on generic tat.
 
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DKlimax

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,961
So, of course I had to give it a try.

Feel the burn of my late '90s powerhouse, a fully-loaded Pentium II with Voodoo3!

Benchmark results:
CPU: Single 400 / Multi 400
Disk Seq Read 282 / Rand Read 7 / Seq Write 200 200 / Rand Write 30
2D: Text 549 / Square 2655 / Circle 1010 / Image 992
3D: Title 100 / Break 100 / Wireframe 128493 / Polygon 131215


My "Project98" PC is not actually the fastest of its breed; it's just something I threw together out of spare parts a few years ago. It plays Win9x games fairly well, but it struggles with anything released 2000 or later. Still, it brought me pleasure both in the construction and use, so even if it doesn't benchmark very highly I still love the old beast. It has all the period-appropriate apps and games on it (PowerGoo! Quake II! MS Office 97! Many more!) and I fire it up every other month or so just to play around with it (and hear its fans roar).

One recommendation on the benchmark program: make the 3D/OpenGL display something on screen while it does its thing. The test can be somewhat lengthy (it took a four or five minutes on my PC) and all it did was pop up a black screen while it did its thing. I assumed it had crashed and killed the process twice before I decided to just be patient. That could have been avoided if there was something showing on the display.
This benchmark is variant of classical CrystalMark and DOES show various things (flying CPUs, wireframes,...) during OpenGL tests. Seems your driver has borked OpenGL support. (Not surprising considering it is VooDoo3 GPU which AFAIK never properly supported full OpenGl)
 
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WinNT 3.1 started [multitasking] that and 3.5 did better. 4.0/Win2K and now we have Dave Cutler from DEC bringing VMS knowhow to make a true multiprocessing OS.
Dave Cutler joined Microsoft in 1988 and led Windows NT from its inception* to its 1993 launch. It was a full multiprocessing, multi-CPU OS from launch and even supported multiple CPU architectures at that point.

* well, depending on to what extent you view it as rising from the ashes of Microsoft's contributions to OS/2, I guess. But, regardless, he didn't suddenly fly in for NT 4.0 and 4.0 wasn't especially different from 3.1 and 3.5 architecturally in terms of process management.
 
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sonicmerlin

Ars Tribunus Militum
1,538
I’d say “ah the nostalgia”, but to be honest the speed boost I experienced going from a single to a quad core, even on an old HDD, during the early days of the intel Core era, reminds me of how slow those single core processors were and how much better our experiences would’ve been if intel had cared one bit about usability and moved to dual cores early on.

it just makes sense to have a 2nd thread capable of chewing through user facing tasks if a windows program gets bogged down in the background.
 
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sonicmerlin

Ars Tribunus Militum
1,538
Dave Cutler joined Microsoft in 1988 and led Windows NT from its inception* to its 1993 launch. It was a full multiprocessing, multi-CPU OS from launch and even supported multiple CPU architectures at that point.

* well, depending on to what extent you view it as rising from the ashes of Microsoft's contributions to OS/2, I guess. But, regardless, he didn't suddenly fly in for NT 4.0 and 4.0 wasn't especially different from 3.1 and 3.5 architecturally in terms of process management.
Unfortunately intel never made multi cpu architectures available to consumers for decades, despite the huge usability improvement they provided. Nothing like watching your entire computer become unresponsive because of one silly program getting hung up. No task manager for you until this program finally finishes after 5 minutes.
 
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ZOMG, that's the MDK benchmark! Those triangly bits rotated, and it supported MMX 😅

I absolutely loved the vibe of that game, there hasn't been anything quite like it since then. MDK2 was also fun, but much more conventional... although the toast-gun made me ROTFLMAOASTC.

I still wish we could see a faithful MDK3 somehow

This level looked like ray tracing to me decades before it was consumer ready lol

607511871.jpg
 
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cuvtixo

Ars Scholae Palatinae
924
I'm going to be that guy and say I was disappointed in the knee-jerk reactions of "don't ever connect it to the internet!" in the earlier linked Jul 10, 2023 article by Cunningham, as well as here. Firstly, I think 99% of people setting up vintage Windoze 32-bit machines at this point are technically competent, by necessity, and don't need noob treatment. Secondly modern malware is very unlikely to work. Is there still malware targeting, for example old factory machines like CNCs? Yes, but it's not likely to hurt the Retro-gamer, and if it's not 24/7 connected, the chance of it infecting other machines is also very low. Are there black hats targeting Win 95 and Win 3.11 machines? IDK- I'd like to see some evidence from the "wild". Basically I'd like to see evidence for retro-machine infection from someone other than a clickbait YouTuber. These incidents will no longer be large companies wanting to hide security breeches, so there should be at least stories, which might even be very entertaining to hear. As for now I consider "don't ever connect!" to be along the same lines as advice you'd get from some teenager newly hired for the Geek Squad. And if you take the time to downvote this, why don't you answer me with a post, too?
 
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mvmiller12

Ars Scholae Palatinae
871
Subscriptor
I'm going to be that guy and say I was disappointed in the knee-jerk reactions of "don't ever connect it to the internet!" in the earlier linked Jul 10, 2023 article by Cunningham, as well as here. Firstly, I think 99% of people setting up vintage Windoze 32-bit machines at this point are technically competent, by necessity, and don't need noob treatment. Secondly modern malware is very unlikely to work. Is there still malware targeting, for example old factory machines like CNCs? Yes, but it's not likely to hurt the Retro-gamer, and if it's not 24/7 connected, the chance of it infecting other machines is also very low. Are there black hats targeting Win 95 and Win 3.11 machines? IDK- I'd like to see some evidence from the "wild". Basically I'd like to see evidence for retro-machine infection from someone other than a clickbait YouTuber. These incidents will no longer be large companies wanting to hide security breeches, so there should be at least stories, which might even be very entertaining to hear. As for now I consider "don't ever connect!" to be along the same lines as advice you'd get from some teenager newly hired for the Geek Squad. And if you take the time to downvote this, why don't you answer me with a post, too?

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. And I agree that most people with the expertise to even build a retro system and get it connected to a network in the first place probably don't need this advice, but...

I WILL say that connecting a retro machine to your network means it is on your network. Some of us still use SMB1 on our internal networks just for our retro machines (MS-DOS/Win 31-ME). I specifically block that machine entirely from the outside at the firewall on my network as well as the SMB1 TCP/UDP ports because it is a vulnerability I am very aware of.
 
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Spalls

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
199
Xenix: "am I a joke to you?"

I stand corrected. Xenix, released in 1980, did indeed pre-date DOS 4.0 by six years.

Although -AFAIK- Xenix was merely a licensed implementation of System 7 Unix and not actually something Microsoft created on their own, so it's arguably not a "Microsoft OS". I'm not sure how much work -if any- Microsoft actually put into the code. But this is picking nits on nits, so I'll grant your correction unchallenged.

Still, given that it was sold for Z80/x86 processors (i386 support wasn't available in Xenix until after Microsoft sold their rights to SCO), I have to wonder what sort of multitasking it actually used. It wouldn't be impossible to have pre-emptive multitasking on hardware without standardized memory management and protection... but it would be a lot harder.

This being Ars, there's probably somebody here more familiar with the codebase that can set us straight. Just wait for it. ;-)
 
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mgc8

Ars Praetorian
415
Subscriptor++
I still wish we could see a faithful MDK3 somehow

I'd love that as well, who knows, maybe a new generation of game devs will be inspired at some print to at least make a spiritual successor...

This level looked like ray tracing to me decades before it was consumer ready lol

607511871.jpg

The reflections level! That's the first that pops to mind for me too, it was so striking with that era's technology, especially considering software rendering! Dud you know they had different designers for each level? That's part of why they look so different and creative... Oh, and they wrote their own programming language aimed at both programmers and artists, to allow them to work better together.

Truly ahead of its time, that Kurt fella...
 
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Auie

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,878
This is how I find out CrystalDiskMark/Crystal Dew World has a whole host of anime girl mascots.

Some of them even have Twitter accounts! https://x.com/suishoshizuku?lang=en

Then again, even Microsoft has anime girl mascots for Windows in Japan: https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-getting-japanese-anime-mascot-it-still-needs-name

Microsoft only started doing it because weirdos fans were making them up unofficially and posting them on 2chan, first.

Fun fact: An OS-tan's bust size is proportionally related to how much RAM the OS requires.

Don't blame me, blame the fans!
 
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I'd love that as well, who knows, maybe a new generation of game devs will be inspired at some print to at least make a spiritual successor...



The reflections level! That's the first that pops to mind for me too, it was so striking with that era's technology, especially considering software rendering! Dud you know they had different designers for each level? That's part of why they look so different and creative... Oh, and they wrote their own programming language aimed at both programmers and artists, to allow them to work better together.

Truly ahead of its time, that Kurt fella...

Of course, level 4 "Shakespeare Cliff Refinery" was using some clever tricks for the illusion, such mirrored texture mapping and an invisible pane so you couldn't walk through the inverted geometry. But 1997? At my age? My mind was blown, "How are they doing that?!". The mirror level stood out to me for years.

I'd really love to see someone pick up the series, assuming they love and understand it
 
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