Butch and Suni send mixed messages on whether politics delayed their return
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
Mhmm, sure Butch, whatever, but I'd like more to hear what Suni Williams has to say.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
No, you’re right.
Clearly Elon Musk, with his antipathy towards space and space farers, would literally strand two U.S. astronauts Who have already been consigned to eight months on the station, merely out of spite.
Or perhaps it is you who have a hard time separating out your personal antipathies And cynicisms.
Upvote
-4
(1
/
-5)
There is no magic formula for "quality" unfortunately. The writers create two headlines, sometimes on their own, sometimes they workshop them with people. Usually we try and find different angles to express the idea.
A headline is a hook, to get you to read the story. It's not the story. The writing in the article matters. And we do want people to read it.
To see what Butch actually said, in full, you do have to read. It's impossible to sum up nuance and detail in 70 or so characters.
But a hook should still give you a sense for what you're going to read. "Clickbait" is when you are teased with an unknown. "You won't believe what an astronaut said from space!" is clickbait. Who said it? What kind of thing did they say? Click to find out!
Ars doesn't do headlines like that. Both the A and B headline gave the subject, and what the general sense of the topic was going to be. One was a more general "mixed messages", one had a snippet of a quote that was provocative.
But here's the thing: that bit of the quote? It's what like 90% of the comments have been about. It wasn't a trick. It wasn't taken out of context. You still have to read to fully contextualize, that's how journalism works.
Upvote
7
(15
/
-8)
The logic behind that statement eludes me. If you have only the statement of one side - which has repeatedly made false promises, spread outright lies and slandered people - why would you give them the benefit of the doubt? If you don't have "no information whatsowever" how can you reasonably state that somebody is "absolutely factual"?
On the other hand, as a political statement it's crystal clear. Nauseatingly obvious.
Upvote
6
(7
/
-1)
When you only have two valid ways to get home:
A) Soyuz
B) Dragon
You might not want to upset Russia, or the CSA.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
He's from the Navy. Aren't all military personnel bootlickers by definition?
Upvote
-7
(0
/
-7)
The oval office approves this statement.
Um, so how can you say with any degree of certainty that what he says is at all factual, never mind absolutely.
In hostage videos, the hostages are told what to say.
Upvote
4
(5
/
-1)
That WAS the moment. Now they never can, not in a way that will have an impact. Really disappointed in the disgusting bootlicking response.
Oh and as far as virtue signaling, piss off. I've had moments in my career where I told employers to go fuck themselves and others when I held it back and gave some stupid whitewashed reply to keep my job. Guess which ones I still bitterly regret 20 years later?
Upvote
5
(8
/
-3)
They're astronauts in a world where a private company has effectively taken over NASA, and Musk owns that company.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
I’ve burnt bridges in the past. But only metaphorically and intentionally, and never literally whilst standing on it.
Also I’m a civilian not a military person, so my repercussions for pissing off a former boss are just having to find another job.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
I thought it was a bit misleading, especially since the context is buried further down in the article and links to a tweet that adds more confusion.
I am sure the hook got a lot of people to click (and then complain about how it's written), but I don't think it's a particular effective bit of writing (or transcription, rather).
Upvote
18
(18
/
0)
What I'm inferring isn't confirmation that what Musk said is true, just that he said it
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
I have no respect for Mr. Musk, and if he told me the sky is blue I would look out the window to check.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
Upvote
-2
(2
/
-4)
If I could write it like a movie, then I'd have them be a little more nuanced in their replies. But, they're astronauts, not speech writers, and it's not like they have a whole lot of freedom to get some assistance privately.
But I suspect Wilmore was being genuine. He just sounds like a MAGA guy, here. Could be a put on, but it's uncanny, if so.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
People in {insert last router location} are using this one weird trick to save 000s of $ on their A/B testing.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
No bucks, no buck rodgers
Every astronaut is keen to not bite the hand that feed's
Upvote
-2
(0
/
-2)
Isn't the absurd overstatement of "absolutely factual" a clear enough code phrase?
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
And this, my friends, is exactly why we are where we are...
That may well become America's epitaph.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
Trying to be “just the reporter” on the actions of bad-faith liars doesn’t work. It leads to being “just the stenographer”.
I feel bad for Berger. His job, that was once fascinating and exciting, has been turned into a fascist political shitshow.
I empathize because my job has taken a similar turn. Niche enterprise software that was once a small company, went through successive buyouts and mergers, and now the CEO is a Musk-lover. The customers are mostly the same. So now I have to choose between abandoning those customers who are doing important work, and helping a likely fascist line his pockets.
I posted yesterday that Berger will have to choose soon. He will. I don’t envy his position.
Upvote
13
(14
/
-1)
It's an indicator, but it's not clear of what, exactly. Could be that he felt under duress, or it could be that he's like literally every other MAGA supporter I've ever encountered.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
I think Wilmore's performance is brilliant in a position where he has absolutely zero power. He overdoes the bootlicking so much, like a kidnap victim asking for his ransom, that you only have to read a little between the lines to know what is really going on.
We'll see what he has to say when he is back on earth.
We'll see what he has to say when he is back on earth.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Fair enough. I don't think it's misleading or bait, but I'm not invested in the headline (or the story) and didn't write either of them, so I can't see much purpose in arguing about it. From my perspective the quote in the headline was accurate, gave you a sense of what you were going to find in the story, and yes, you had to read it for the full context.
That last bit is something I'm gonna always defend. People who want the story somehow magically summed up in 70 characters so that nobody has to read the body and can just headline skim to be totally informed are always going to end up disappointed.
Ultimately I'm only trying to give a little context to how the process and A/B testing work to inform people.
Upvote
11
(12
/
-1)
Well I now know that Mr Wilmore is not someone I would associate with because of his abhorrent views. Just because you're an astronaut doesn't mean you're actually smart or good.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Weird that Ars's editors made the decision for the headline to be" Butch Wilmore says Elon Musk is “absolutely factual” on Dragon’s delayed return" when the rest of that quote contradicts that statement.
Upvote
2
(7
/
-5)
It did sound like the astronaut was talking in code. What we have been told is nothing but we believe that. Nothing. Clever that.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Old bikers will know the kickstart can send you skywards if you try to start without the ignition fully retarded.
The problem is that almost any word can be made an insult, and if you start getting precious you end up like those Pacific societies which have no history because when someone dies, even words that just sound like their name have to be replaced with something else.
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
Seems more rational to view him as equivocating for 6 months to maintain a cordial working relationship with NASA, and now that he is about to come home and probably retire he is less careful about showing his true feelings.
I’d say wait about 6 months after he retires and we will have a much clearer picture of what happened.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
There is precisely one slur I will refuse to say out loud and will have serious issues with most people even quoting verbatim. But that's it. I will not extend the n-word to the r-word or the f-word or anything else.
That's the powerful and awful legacy of slavery.
I don't personally say retarded. I realize it's offensive to some people, and I have a large vocabulary, so it's not a big deal. It's the same reason I don't say cunt. In some countries that's a common one, in the US it's pretty powerful. I have gotten into some fights with people over objecting to their casual use of the word rape. (Saying you can rape a spinner in pinball is just gross, and I'm gonna call you on it.)
But I don't feel the need to self censor myself when typing them here. I don't need to write r-word and have you try and guess which r word I just mentioned I mean.
I have had people tell me they object to words like crazy and idiot. That's beyond my accommodation level. We reach a point where your need to feel offended and find fault in everything fails my reasonable test.
Upvote
12
(13
/
-1)
What I would love to see in articles where there’s uncertainty about whether you’re reporting statements made in good faith or propaganda is something like what Beth does with homeopathy: a drop in paragraph that gives context about what propaganda is, why it’s a problem, and why we are more likely to hear propaganda from otherwise trustworthy sources when leadership demands loyalty and is openly retaliatory.
That context does matter to understanding the story, and is not even country specific. Any reporting on statements from someone in North Korea that doesn’t acknowledge the likelihood that the statement is framed to be favorable to DPRK, for instance, is not accurately conveying the meaning of that news to the audience.
I know it’s really hard to find the line between giving context and inserting your own viewpoint. That line needs to be found with propaganda though, because the point of propaganda is to mislead and manipulate people, and merely reporting what is said furthers its purpose.
Upvote
7
(8
/
-1)
Since when has Ars done clickbait headlines? Shameful as it just takes a couple words entirely out of context of the following sentence.
Upvote
5
(6
/
-1)
I'm not that invested in this story either and I am not arguing about the headline (unlike other folks here, it seems). I am just offering some feedback on how helpful or informative I found the headline.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
This shit is starting to sound like the prewritten statements that Taikonauts make on Chinese national TV.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
Your proposed headline change can equally be viewed as political (even if it would more closely align with my own).
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Interesting. Willmore has “the utmost respect” for someone who calls other astronauts “fully retarded” when they publicly contradict Musk.
If I’m supposed to take him at face value, then I’m forced to consider whether he has made it past the middle school playground-level of emotional development.
If I’m not supposed to take his words at face value, what is he trying to say? Perhaps he fears for his safety, or his family’s safety? Musk and Trump are famous for retaliating against critics without regard to looking petty, and their supporters regularly threaten people with extreme violence.
Barring the above, the remaining possibilities are not flattering to anyone who might consider himself a man of integrity.
If I’m supposed to take him at face value, then I’m forced to consider whether he has made it past the middle school playground-level of emotional development.
If I’m not supposed to take his words at face value, what is he trying to say? Perhaps he fears for his safety, or his family’s safety? Musk and Trump are famous for retaliating against critics without regard to looking petty, and their supporters regularly threaten people with extreme violence.
Barring the above, the remaining possibilities are not flattering to anyone who might consider himself a man of integrity.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)