As a meteorologist, Hurricane Ian is the nightmare storm I worry about most

This is the kind of storm that destroys a community forever.

Read the whole story

 

[rbryanh]

I find it difficult to summon much compassion for Floridians, who've allowed their state government to ban mention of climate collapse. On any number of fronts, the Anus administration was my last straw. In general, dealing with Republicans is like dealing with a drug addict. You start out a decent human being, wanting to help someone in need, and then year after year your trust is brutally eroded until eventually you change the locks, get a new phone number, and plug your ears when anyone mentions how that degraded loser is killing themself today.

I'm not proud of it, but there are limits to how much I can care about people who not only refuse to face reality and care for themselves, but work to prevent others from doing so. There are sane people working for good in the world who actually deserve my attention and support.

 

[Voix des Airs]

I find it difficult to summon much compassion for Floridians, who've allowed their state government to ban mention of climate collapse. On any number of fronts, the Anus administration was my last straw. In general, dealing with Republicans is like dealing with a drug addict. You start out a decent human being, wanting to help someone in need, and then year after year your trust is brutally eroded until eventually you change the locks, get a new phone number, and plug your ears when anyone mentions how that degraded loser is killing themself today.

I'm not proud of it, but there are limits to how much I can care about people who not only refuse to face reality and care for themselves, but work to prevent others from doing so. There are sane people working for good in the world who actually deserve my attention and support.

DeSantis won 49.6% to 49.2%... so maybe stop treating an entire state of individuals as a united block?

 

[Berger_Fan]

I find it difficult to summon much compassion for Floridians, who've allowed their state government to ban mention of climate collapse. On any number of fronts, the Anus administration was my last straw. In general, dealing with Republicans is like dealing with a drug addict. You start out a decent human being, wanting to help someone in need, and then year after year your trust is brutally eroded until eventually you change the locks, get a new phone number, and plug your ears when anyone mentions how that degraded loser is killing themself today.

I'm not proud of it, but there are limits to how much I can care about people who not only refuse to face reality and care for themselves, but work to prevent others from doing so. There are sane people working for good in the world who actually deserve my attention and support.

DeSantis won 49.6% to 49.2%... so maybe stop treating an entire state of individuals as a united block?

What percentage of eligible voters registered? What percentage of registered voters voted? I don’t know those numbers, but for decades a substantial number of eligible voters have faced obstacles to getting registered and a substantial number of registered voters haven’t bothered to vote. It wouldn’t take a huge increase in turnout of voters that care about climate change to flip an election.

All of those who didn’t bother voting can be counted with those who voted for DeSantis because they didn’t vote against him.

 

[CenterLess]

believe in climate change .

I'd like to offer a pedantic semantic note.

There's a huge cognitive difference between "believe in" and believe that".

"Believe in" easily pivots to being an article of faith. Particularly in a religious society, such as the US, with it's very high rate of religiousity compared to other First World societies.

"Believe that" is evidence-based. "I believe that global heating is real and credible, and is a threat at species level."

"c.f. "Believe in" has aspects of a greater power such as a spaghetti monster or similar invention. It's possible that some religious folk hear "believe in climate change" as some sort of alternative or threat to their spaghetti monster, particularly given "you shall have no other 'believe in' but me" as a commandment.

Apologies for rambling, but I've found using "believe that" to be a better way of engaging with people whose views differ from my own. Seems to take the faith-related energy out of the discussion.

The evidence for global warming is not faith-based nor faith-derived.

I have no problem with your pedantry, but in the future I would hope you quote the full text so as to give context as opposed just a snipped quote which could be taken out of context.

 

[YetAnotherBoris]

Just shy of category 5. Mother Nature at her most potent. You want to look away, but the sheer power is mind-blowing to behold. Doubtless some people will be streaming live video from the most dangerous areas.

I firmly believe that once they capture winds at landfall, it will be recategorized as a Cat 5. It took them a decade to do this with Andrew. This storm is no joke.

Right now a mere 2 mph separates it from being classified as a cat 5 hurricane. It’s irrelevant. There’s going to be a lot of damage and fatalities. It’s not good.

Aaaand… as I said: zero fatalities. Not that I give a shit about fake social media points, but it says a lot that your hyperbole was massively upvoted and my claim that it wouldn’t be as terrible as the media is claiming got slammed down. You people are hilarious; enjoy being over-reactive clowns!

How would you know that? So many homes flooded to the rafters, so much rain yet to fall, so many fires, downed trees, millions left without power, and downed electrical lines everywhere... and the night is still young. I'm willing to bet there are already quite a few dead bodies waiting to be found all over the 100+ mile wide swath across Florida that this storm is carving, and quite a few more yet to materialize before this thing is over.

Quit wishing for people to die, weirdo. Do you seriously want to be right on the internet, SO BAD, that you hope for fatalities? smh

Why is it so hard for people to recognize the media hype when it happens practically every year? These storms rarely if ever amount to more than a tempest in a teapot, but they’re always made out to be the end of the world. Once again, as someone living in the middle of it for decades, ITS SO OLD.

Glibly and preemptively dismissing multiple deaths, and still far more numerous injuries, and the massive damage to everything as well as massive losses both economic and personal, isn't what I'd call 'normal' behavior. You're making quite a show of psychotically and loudly whistling past the graveyard - and really ought to look in the mirror the next time you get the urge to call someone else a 'weirdo'.

 

[[Dimetrodon]]

Honestly, storms are only going to get worse from here as many have said before me. Not only do we have a climate crisis, but we have people in this country, including Floridians, who do not acknowledge the reality of climate change. Many would rather belittle anybody who brings it up than admit there is a problem.

 

[The Lurker Beneath]

I firmly believe that once they capture winds at landfall, it will be recategorized as a Cat 5. It took them a decade to do this with Andrew. This storm is no joke.

Right now a mere 2 mph separates it from being classified as a cat 5 hurricane. It’s irrelevant. There’s going to be a lot of damage and fatalities. It’s not good.

Aaaand… as I said: zero fatalities. Not that I give a shit about fake social media points, but it says a lot that your hyperbole was massively upvoted and my claim that it wouldn’t be as terrible as the media is claiming got slammed down. You people are hilarious; enjoy being over-reactive clowns!

How would you know that? So many homes flooded to the rafters, so much rain yet to fall, so many fires, downed trees, millions left without power, and downed electrical lines everywhere... and the night is still young. I'm willing to bet there are already quite a few dead bodies waiting to be found all over the 100+ mile wide swath across Florida that this storm is carving, and quite a few more yet to materialize before this thing is over.

Quit wishing for people to die, weirdo. Do you seriously want to be right on the internet, SO BAD, that you hope for fatalities? smh

Why is it so hard for people to recognize the media hype when it happens practically every year? These storms rarely if ever amount to more than a tempest in a teapot, but they’re always made out to be the end of the world. Once again, as someone living in the middle of it for decades, ITS SO OLD.

Glibly and preemptively dismissing multiple deaths, and still far more numerous injuries, and the massive damage to everything as well as massive losses both economic and personal, isn't what I'd call 'normal' behavior. You're making quite a show of psychotically and loudly whistling past the graveyard - and really ought to look in the mirror the next time you get the urge to call someone else a 'weirdo'.

But is your objection to "tempest in a teapot" or to the observation that such storms have always occurred?

 

[cerberusTI]

What is there to say? Government officials in Florida can’t officially use the term ‘climate change’ or apply its effects in drafting regulations and legislation. Many of those homes in low areas will flood. Construction (or reconstruction) should never have been permitted. This event will finally take down the almost collapsed Florida insurance industry. What do my parents and others do if those with homes on higher ground can’t insure?

Personally, I encouraged my parents to sell and leave southern FL, which they did last year after living most of their lives in the area.

One of my notes was that this is quite possibly the last up market for homes in FL. By the time the housing market comes down, then recovers, it is likely many will be on to the fact that this area does not have a future.

I used to have a goal of buying my childhood home on Sanibel and wintering there. I've come to believe that even if I could afford to buy the house in the meantime (I cannot, property values there have gone berserk), by the time I retire it may not be plausible to live there.

It may not be plausible now. The initial images of that bridge based on a drone flyby look bad.

The storm appears to have moved the island a bit, and washed under supports. My guess is they need to basically build a new one. Looking it up, it took three years to build this one, and it is the only road route onto the islands.

They will likely rebuild it anyway, but ideally this kind of barrier island would become a park, or something else which can be safely submerged and is not always inhabited.

 

[The Dark]

What is there to say? Government officials in Florida can’t officially use the term ‘climate change’ or apply its effects in drafting regulations and legislation. Many of those homes in low areas will flood. Construction (or reconstruction) should never have been permitted. This event will finally take down the almost collapsed Florida insurance industry. What do my parents and others do if those with homes on higher ground can’t insure?

Personally, I encouraged my parents to sell and leave southern FL, which they did last year after living most of their lives in the area.

One of my notes was that this is quite possibly the last up market for homes in FL. By the time the housing market comes down, then recovers, it is likely many will be on to the fact that this area does not have a future.

I used to have a goal of buying my childhood home on Sanibel and wintering there. I've come to believe that even if I could afford to buy the house in the meantime (I cannot, property values there have gone berserk), by the time I retire it may not be plausible to live there.

It may not be plausible now. The initial images of that bridge based on a drone flyby look bad.

The storm appears to have moved the island a bit, and washed under supports. My guess is they need to basically build a new one. Looking it up, it took three years to build this one, and it is the only road route onto the islands.

They will likely rebuild it anyway, but ideally this kind of barrier island would become a park, or something else which can be safely submerged and is not always inhabited.

Sanibel's median household income is a smidgen under $100,000 in a state where the median household income is $57,000 and a county where the median is $60,000. I agree with you that it probably shouldn't be rebuild, but its status as a wealthier community means it's more likely than not going to be rebuilt regardless of how foolish that appears.

 

[poltroon]

I find it difficult to summon much compassion for Floridians, who've allowed their state government to ban mention of climate collapse. On any number of fronts, the Anus administration was my last straw. In general, dealing with Republicans is like dealing with a drug addict. You start out a decent human being, wanting to help someone in need, and then year after year your trust is brutally eroded until eventually you change the locks, get a new phone number, and plug your ears when anyone mentions how that degraded loser is killing themself today.

I'm not proud of it, but there are limits to how much I can care about people who not only refuse to face reality and care for themselves, but work to prevent others from doing so. There are sane people working for good in the world who actually deserve my attention and support.

DeSantis won 49.6% to 49.2%... so maybe stop treating an entire state of individuals as a united block?

What percentage of eligible voters registered? What percentage of registered voters voted? I don’t know those numbers, but for decades a substantial number of eligible voters have faced obstacles to getting registered and a substantial number of registered voters haven’t bothered to vote. It wouldn’t take a huge increase in turnout of voters that care about climate change to flip an election.

All of those who didn’t bother voting can be counted with those who voted for DeSantis because they didn’t vote against him.

The truth is that there was substantial voter suppression and that there will probably be more in the next election. This includes things like removing people from the voter registration lists using slanted criteria, making fewer and more inconvenient polling places in areas that "vote the wrong way" so there will be long lines, and even rules like permanently barring felons from voting and then preferentially arresting and convicting people of color.

Republicans literally have now as part of their mainstream candidates, for all offices, but especially Secretaries of State, direct statements that they don't believe in counting all the votes in elections or that people who don't agree with them should be allowed to vote.

I used to make voting decisions based on fine nuances of policy. Now the line is at "does this person and the people they'll support in government believe in elections; do they want to hunt my family and loved ones for sport?" I never thought in America we'd have mainstream political candidates falling on the other side of that line.

 

[YetAnotherBoris]

Right now a mere 2 mph separates it from being classified as a cat 5 hurricane. It’s irrelevant. There’s going to be a lot of damage and fatalities. It’s not good.

Aaaand… as I said: zero fatalities. Not that I give a shit about fake social media points, but it says a lot that your hyperbole was massively upvoted and my claim that it wouldn’t be as terrible as the media is claiming got slammed down. You people are hilarious; enjoy being over-reactive clowns!

How would you know that? So many homes flooded to the rafters, so much rain yet to fall, so many fires, downed trees, millions left without power, and downed electrical lines everywhere... and the night is still young. I'm willing to bet there are already quite a few dead bodies waiting to be found all over the 100+ mile wide swath across Florida that this storm is carving, and quite a few more yet to materialize before this thing is over.

Quit wishing for people to die, weirdo. Do you seriously want to be right on the internet, SO BAD, that you hope for fatalities? smh

Why is it so hard for people to recognize the media hype when it happens practically every year? These storms rarely if ever amount to more than a tempest in a teapot, but they’re always made out to be the end of the world. Once again, as someone living in the middle of it for decades, ITS SO OLD.

Glibly and preemptively dismissing multiple deaths, and still far more numerous injuries, and the massive damage to everything as well as massive losses both economic and personal, isn't what I'd call 'normal' behavior. You're making quite a show of psychotically and loudly whistling past the graveyard - and really ought to look in the mirror the next time you get the urge to call someone else a 'weirdo'.

But is your objection to "tempest in a teapot" or to the observation that such storms have always occurred?

"Such storms have always occurred" is a rather hallucinatiry reading of his post. I suggest you reboot, and try again - this time with less glitching...

 

[Tom the Melaniephile]

That's not "being ahead". That's ancient civic planning. Don't put shit you don't want flooded on the flood plains. We just forgot common sense when the tourism and real estate industries took off a century or so ago.

Yea, we know the Egyptians figured this out and used it to their advantage something like 8,000 - 10,000 years ago.

Farm the floodplain. Put the buildings you care about at a higher elevation.

 

[PintOStout]

I find it difficult to summon much compassion for Floridians, who've allowed their state government to ban mention of climate collapse. On any number of fronts, the Anus administration was my last straw. In general, dealing with Republicans is like dealing with a drug addict. You start out a decent human being, wanting to help someone in need, and then year after year your trust is brutally eroded until eventually you change the locks, get a new phone number, and plug your ears when anyone mentions how that degraded loser is killing themself today.

I'm not proud of it, but there are limits to how much I can care about people who not only refuse to face reality and care for themselves, but work to prevent others from doing so. There are sane people working for good in the world who actually deserve my attention and support.

DeSantis won 49.6% to 49.2%... so maybe stop treating an entire state of individuals as a united block?

But that would require thought and nuance and escaping the simplistic "us vs them" of the two party system! Fscking Judean People's Front!

*ugh* sorry...not a proper night sleep in a week. Now that the power came back on this morning I'm hoping tonight I can get some real rest. We were very fortunate in far eastern Hillsborough county that the storm made such an early turn. We're just under a mile from the Alafia River where there is significant flooding. Those people got similarly hit by Irma 5 years ago.

Area around us it is mainly tree and fence damage ... some facade damage to bigger or older buildings.. Right now it appears we only lost a few shingles... no water intrusion.

 

[ardent]

...
It doesn't make them stupid, just human.

From here (one cousin is currently missing) it seems like a complete lack of empathy.

It is hypocritical and of course, as a result, ironic that Florida is home to a large population of people who complain bitterly about handouts (who largely live on handouts) but will suddenly change their tune when their own lives and livelihoods are sent into chaos by events beyond their control.

If this hurricane had hit New Orleans they'd be among the first to rail about bailouts and handouts for New Orleans. (Let alone New Jersey!)

Personally I just wish the government would cap flood insurance payout at $500,000 lifetime. We'd immediately see housing prices in flood plains collapse, but ultimately I think we'd be better off for it long term.

 

[YetAnotherSecretAnonymousPseudonyme]

...
It doesn't make them stupid, just human.

From here (one cousin is currently missing) it seems like a complete lack of empathy.

It is hypocritical and of course, as a result, ironic that Florida is home to a large population of people who complain bitterly about handouts (who largely live on handouts) but will suddenly change their tune when their own lives and livelihoods are sent into chaos by events beyond their control.

If this hurricane had hit New Orleans they'd be among the first to rail about bailouts and handouts for New Orleans. (Let alone New Jersey!)

Personally I just wish the government would cap flood insurance payout at $500,000 lifetime. We'd immediately see housing prices in flood plains collapse, but ultimately I think we'd be better off for it long term.

Perhaps the government insurance money come with the price of signing a recognition of having received a government handout and a moral contract not complain about such handouts ?

Like just force them to write by hand: yes I’d like to benefit from the government handout.

 

[mbrubeck]

The death toll in Florida and North Carolina is up to 77 now and likely to rise further since search and rescue efforts are still underway.

 

[mbrubeck]

The Insurance Information Institute says Hurricane Ian has caused more damages than any US storm except for Hurricane Katrina, with $60 billion in property loss in Florida alone.

 

[shawnce]

The Insurance Information Institute says Hurricane Ian has caused more damages than any US storm except for Hurricane Katrina, with $60 billion in property loss in Florida alone.

Ah so just the media hyping things up…. right uhohzombies?

 

[Koga Onutalepo]

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage [Babcock Ranch, 12 miles Northeast of Fort Myers]

 

[shadedmagus]

I'm sure Floridian republicans will have plenty of disaster-capitalist friends who'll be able to help them out in their time of need.

If by "help" you mean pack'em all up and send'em to Martha's Vineyard, then sure!

The last time the Republican party was even a little kinder and gentler was in '92. The current batch of yahoos and thuggees are a whole nother breed of contemptible stupidity.

Considering that the Florida House of Representatives voted no to federal disaster relief but still want disaster relief, I have to unequivocally agree on the "contemptible stupids" down there. So glad I don't live there anymore.

 

[Uragan]

I'm sure Floridian republicans will have plenty of disaster-capitalist friends who'll be able to help them out in their time of need.

If by "help" you mean pack'em all up and send'em to Martha's Vineyard, then sure!

The last time the Republican party was even a little kinder and gentler was in '92. The current batch of yahoos and thuggees are a whole nother breed of contemptible stupidity.

Considering that the Florida House of Representatives voted no to federal disaster relief but still want disaster relief, I have to unequivocally agree on the "contemptible stupids" down there. So glad I don't live there anymore.

Uh... Congressman Matt Gaetz != the Florida House of Representatives nor is he the sole Congressional representive from Florida.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

The Insurance Information Institute says Hurricane Ian has caused more damages than any US storm except for Hurricane Katrina, with $60 billion in property loss in Florida alone.

I understand that people need to live somewhere, and moving to a new area is difficult, but there's a part of me that finds it a little difficult to care when people continue to build, and rebuild next to an ocean with a history of destructive hurricanes. It doesn't help that 50% of them deny that climate change exists and will continue to deny it, even as they rebuild the same structures in the same places that just got destroyed, and will probably continue to deny it when those rebuilt structures get destroyed again in 10 to 20 years.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage [Babcock Ranch, 12 miles Northeast of Fort Myers]

That's socialism! You can tell because solar and socialism both star with the same 2 letters.

 

[VividVerism]

I'm sure Floridian republicans will have plenty of disaster-capitalist friends who'll be able to help them out in their time of need.

If by "help" you mean pack'em all up and send'em to Martha's Vineyard, then sure!

The last time the Republican party was even a little kinder and gentler was in '92. The current batch of yahoos and thuggees are a whole nother breed of contemptible stupidity.

Considering that the Florida House of Representatives voted no to federal disaster relief but still want disaster relief, I have to unequivocally agree on the "contemptible stupids" down there. So glad I don't live there anymore.

Uh... Congressman Matt Gaetz != the Florida House of Representatives nor is he the sole Congressional representive from Florida.

Hey, you're right! Florida has 28 seats in the US House of Representatives! We shouldn't rest the "voted against FEMA and then begged for emergency money" label solely on Gaetz! Let's see how the rest voted!

10 Democratic representatives vote "Yea".
16 Republican representatives vote "Nay".
2 seats vacant.

Hmm...

 

[Voix des Airs]

I'm sure Floridian republicans will have plenty of disaster-capitalist friends who'll be able to help them out in their time of need.

If by "help" you mean pack'em all up and send'em to Martha's Vineyard, then sure!

The last time the Republican party was even a little kinder and gentler was in '92. The current batch of yahoos and thuggees are a whole nother breed of contemptible stupidity.

Considering that the Florida House of Representatives voted no to federal disaster relief but still want disaster relief, I have to unequivocally agree on the "contemptible stupids" down there. So glad I don't live there anymore.

Uh... Congressman Matt Gaetz != the Florida House of Representatives nor is he the sole Congressional representive from Florida.

Hey, you're right! Florida has 28 seats in the US House of Representatives! We shouldn't rest the "voted against FEMA and then begged for emergency money" label solely on Gaetz! Let's see how the rest voted!

10 Democratic representatives vote "Yea".
16 Republican representatives vote "Nay".
2 seats vacant.

Hmm...

So it's OK to punish everyone in a given group because of the behavior of a (possibly gerrymandered) segment of that group? That's OK now? Can we do that with any group we don't like or is that still some sort of -ism or -phobia?

 

[VividVerism]

I'm sure Floridian republicans will have plenty of disaster-capitalist friends who'll be able to help them out in their time of need.

If by "help" you mean pack'em all up and send'em to Martha's Vineyard, then sure!

The last time the Republican party was even a little kinder and gentler was in '92. The current batch of yahoos and thuggees are a whole nother breed of contemptible stupidity.

Considering that the Florida House of Representatives voted no to federal disaster relief but still want disaster relief, I have to unequivocally agree on the "contemptible stupids" down there. So glad I don't live there anymore.

Uh... Congressman Matt Gaetz != the Florida House of Representatives nor is he the sole Congressional representive from Florida.

Hey, you're right! Florida has 28 seats in the US House of Representatives! We shouldn't rest the "voted against FEMA and then begged for emergency money" label solely on Gaetz! Let's see how the rest voted!

10 Democratic representatives vote "Yea".
16 Republican representatives vote "Nay".
2 seats vacant.

Hmm...

So it's OK to punish everyone in a given group because of the behavior of a (possibly gerrymandered) segment of that group? That's OK now? Can we do that with any group we don't like or is that still some sort of -ism or -phobia?

Nope, and if I gave the impression that was my meaning, then I was not clear. I absolutely do not want us to "punish" average Floridians in any way.

But it's absolutely fair to refer to Florida Republicans as contemptably stupid and hypocritical while giving their entire state the aid they need without regard to political outlook.

 

[Voix des Airs]

Nope, and if I gave the impression that was my meaning, then I was not clear. I absolutely do not want us to "punish" average Floridians in any way.

But it's absolutely fair to refer to Florida Republicans as contemptably stupid and hypocritical while giving their entire state the aid they need without regard to political outlook.

I'm sorry. And I didn't mean to direct that post at yours either, I meant to just comment on a theme that has been snaking through this thread that it is OK to judge all the people of a state, any state, by the conduct of elected officials. I don't think that it is but if you (the group 'you') do then I'd debate that position.

 

[The Dark]

The death toll in Florida and North Carolina is up to 77 now and likely to rise further since search and rescue efforts are still underway.

As of last night the death toll is up to 109, with 105 in Florida and 4 in North Carolina.