Ok, here's some more personal experience, this time relating to printers. Here at my parent's house, we have five computers. Two Macs (an iMac and a G3), and three PCs, two running Windows 98 and one running Linux to route our cable modem. We have two printers, an HP LaserJet 4MP and an Apple Laserwriter Pro 630, a Postscript-capable, ethernet-capable printer. This printer is virtually identical to several different Canon and HP models that use the same engine. To set it up on a mac, all I have to do is plug it's cat5 cable it into the hub and go to the chooser, select the Laserwriter 8 driver, select the printer and go. This is because the Mac has a built-in Postscript-over-ethernet printer driver. Total time to set everything up is on the order of ten to fifteen seconds.<P>To set the very same printer up on a PC, I have to connect the printer directly to the machine using a parallel cable, then install the printer driver using MS's rather unintuitive, more-complicated-than-necessary wizard. If I want to use the printer on more than one PC, I have to set up printer sharing, and always have the machine connected to the printer turned on. The number of Macs that can use the printer simultaneously is limited only by the space on the hub. I don't think you'd find anyone who uses both platforms who'd say that setting up printers is easier on a PC than on a Mac. For printers, Macs are a lot easier.<P>Jonah<P>P.S. Those Xante Accelerator 3's sure are sweet dent. Had one at work for a while.
ARGH!! I want to throw these Mac G4's out the window!
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We had a Unity 1800XL at one of my previous places of employment. It has a parallel port, ethernet, AAUI (I think), and other various and sundry connections on it. All I had to do to set it up for network printing in Windows 9x was install the drivers, Right click on the printer icon in the Printers folder and select properties, click the Add Port button, and either provide a network path or browse to it. <P>I have a hard time believing you can't do the same with this particular printer you claim to have to have connected to a physical computer that is always on.
Jonah,<P>You have two printers that have Ethernet installed. That costs more. You have to use the Ethernet on the Macs. That costs more (it's included in the price, but when people do a Mac vs. PC costing, they insist on including an Ethernet card in the PC).<P>The PCs run non-Ethernet printers. It is possible to connect the Ethernet printers to an Ethernet network that includes the PCs.<P>So you have a lower-cost solution with the PCs which is - surprise! - not as capable as the higher-cost solution. But in the context for which it was designed (small offices where everyone works roughly the same hours, so all computers are on at the same time) it works fine. There's also nothing to stop you keeping an old 486 around which you use as a print server. <P>And your LW driver allows you to print using the default features of a "standard" Mac PostScript printer. To get the full value of your printers you need to install the software on each Mac. The standard "Add Printer" routine in Windows is indeed long, but it's pretty obvious and lets people connect to a networked printer or a parallel port printer. Once you go to Plug and Play, the effort you have to expend is minimal.<P>[This message has been edited by Venture (edited January 04, 2000).]
Venture<P>Actually a printer physically connected to any Mac in the network can be shared. That printer need not be ethernet ready. A USB, or serial(8pin din) printer can be shared over the network. I use a number of 6115's as printer servers to legacy serial printers (dot-matrix, laser, daisywheel etc.). The same can be done for newer USB printers (although we haven't had to replace any of our legacy printers due to the problem you describe). <P>Select the printer turn on sharing and your done.<P>In any case, you are correct in your assertion that retrofitting network capabilities into serial printers can be expensive. I'm simply suggesting that it is not always necessary.
Atilla said:<P>"Actually a printer physically connected to any Mac in the network can be shared. That printer need not be ethernet ready."<P>I'm sure you didn't intend this point to be missed, but for the benefit of others this puts the Mac and PC on equal footing.
Venture - <P>Perhaps I'm misreading this. Are you stating that networking is not an important feature? or are you stating that comparing equal features is not a valid form of comparision?
Roman said:<P>"Are you stating that networking is not an important feature? or are you stating that comparing equal features is not a valid form of comparision?"<P>I don't know where you get these ideas. I pointed out to Jonah that he didn't have equal networking for his Mac and PC printers (although this was possible) and because he'd put less $$$ into the PC side he got less.<P>I'm a firm believer in networking. I've had a 2-PC network at home since 1994.
I don't think he's discounting networking at all. How are ethernet ready and non-ethernet ready considered "equal features"? <P>What he is saying (and don't let me put words in anyone's mouth here, but) is that you can't compare something with one feature (the Mac ethernet printers) to something without that features (the non-ethernet printers) and expect the one without that feature to perform the same way as the one with that feature. You also can't make comparisons of those printers without taking into consideration price vs. performance. <P>You can share both of these types of printers on a network, however the method of doing so differs. Ethernet capable printers are going to work on a network better, and without the need to be hooked up to a computer functioning as a print server, regardless if they are Mac or PC specific.
Venture,<P>First of all, the LaserJet 4MP is not ethernet capable. Both printers have the option of connecting directly to a PC or a Mac using a serial/parallel cable. The Pro 630 also has ethernet, a serial and a scsi port. I don't have to use ethernet to use the printer on a Mac, but I like to, because it is easy, fast and foolproof. Unfortunately, I can't use the ethernet on the PC's.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But in the context for which it was designed (small offices where everyone works roughly the same hours, so all computers are on at the same time) it works fine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Is flexibility suddenly a bad thing? The excuses that you make for the added work required on PC's make it seem so. Why shouldn't I be able to print over ethernet from my PC, out-of-the-box? This is a feature that comes built-in on any Mac since the very first one, but still does not exist in a useful form on PCs. It is simply easier to install, use and configure printers on a Mac.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There's also nothing to stop you keeping an old 486 around which you use as a print server.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, but I don't have an old 486 lying around. And how much extra work would that be? It'd cost me time to set it up, a space on my hub, more electricity and more space lost to do that, something that should be included with any computer.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And your LW driver allows you to print using the default features of a "standard" Mac PostScript printer. To get the full value of your printers you need to install the software on each Mac. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I didn't install any software on my Macs, and they were all instantly aware of the one paper tray, the size of the paper, the fact that I upgraded the RAM in the printer, and the capabilities of the printer(dpi, etc). These are communicated to the computer using a standard language that other manufacturers are free to use, and in fact many HP and Canon printers will connunicate the same info if you connect them. Getting this information and features on a PC requires you to install a specific driver for that printer. Trust me, I've done it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The standard "Add Printer" routine in Windows is indeed long, but it's pretty obvious and lets people connect to a networked printer or a parallel port printer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, you can do several different things with the add printer "wizard," but you can do either of those things with much less effort on a Mac. Both systems have the same capabilities as far as local printers, sharing, etc, but the Mac is easier to set up, and can print to a network printer with virtually no effort.<P>Jonah
venture wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And your LW driver allows you to print using the default features of a "standard" Mac PostScript printer. To get the full value of your printers you need to install the software on each Mac.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Respectfully, I believe this to be incorrect. It is certainly true on Windows, but on Mac OS, the LW driver already knows what to do with additional paper trays, duplexer units, etc. The only thing you have to add is a PPD file, which is essentially a text file that says "this type of printer can have these options". Whether the specific printer you have has those options is a different question, and is discovered dynamically along with what size paper is in which trays (unlike Windows which much be manually configured for every PC) the first time you setup the printer. In a sense this is roughly equivilant to the "Add Printer" wizard on Windows, I suppose. The relevant point, I believe, is that there is no code in the PPD; it is only a config file. You don't have to install additional DLLs that contain the code to use special printer functions (for example).<P>If, in the above quote, you meant "PPD" where it says "software" then of course this is correct, but since the PPD doesn't contain code, I don't consider it to be a "driver". Perhaps our disagreement on this point is simply one of semantics.
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