Apple agrees to pay $95M, delete private conversations Siri recorded

Apple users may get $20 each for up to five Siri-enabled devices.

See full article...

 

[msawzall]

Twenty whole dollars for letting Apple record you saying, "F**k me harder, daddy!" What a deal!

This settlement is pathetic and won't deter this from occurring in the future.

 

[jdale]

Recording conversations is an almost inevitable result of always-ready voice-activated personal assistants. That part is not great but in my opinion it's what you sign up for by using these services at all.

I would have liked the case to go to discovery about the targeted advertising part, though. If that is true -- and I don't know that there is any evidence it is -- it would be quite a significant violation of how Apple normally claims to handle user data. It's a shame that this case is sweeping that very important part under the rug.

 

[close]

the tech giant has offered up to $20 per Siri-enabled device for any customers who made purchases between September 17, 2014, and December 31, 2024

Why are they offering a settlement for devices sold a few days ago? And why 5 devices? Why not per customer, or per device?

 

[fkaOld_one]

I would have liked the case to go to discovery about the targeted advertising part, though. If that is true -- and I don't know that there is any evidence it is -- it would be quite a significant violation of how Apple normally claims to handle user data. It's a shame that this case is sweeping that very important part under the rug.

It’s news to me that Apple sells user data for targeted advertising. I’d have thought that this is exactly the sort of thing that they’ve sworn up and down they don’t do. So… c’mon, Apple, WTF???

 

[ajm8127]

I would have liked the case to go to discovery about the targeted advertising part, though. If that is true -- and I don't know that there is any evidence it is -- it would be quite a significant violation of how Apple normally claims to handle user data. It's a shame that this case is sweeping that very important part under the rug.

This the galling part to me. Apple is always talking about privacy and data security, and then they sell your data to advertisers for targeting (allegedly).

I've had conversations with colleagues about them seeing ads for products that are strikingly similar to products they have recently been discussing, or others on their phone plans have been discussing. There is no hard proof here, but anecdotally it sure seems like it is plausible, and perhaps even likely.

I am going to LMAO next time a person tells me Apple care's about privacy. All these companies are the same. They don't really care about you or your privacy. Everyone wants to make a buck.

Personally I disable voice assistant features on my smart devices.

 

[85mm]

This sort of thing should be a criminal matter.

 

[Ibernetics]

That is why I have never activated Siri. I figured my device had to be listening to me all the time otherwise how would it know I said "Hey Siri"

 

[NinjaNerd56]

This sort of thing should be a criminal matter.

Now you’d think so, but because of new hearing aids, I accidentally discovered Fox News would activate your phone microphone when you hit their main page in the run-up to the 2020 election.

The traffic was bound for 5 IP addresses with no DNS names at Fox.

I filed an FCC complaint, and provided packet captures, logs, and screenshots to align traffic data to timestamp on the pic. IOW, smoking gun.

That complaint is still open.

 

[dfiler]

And how about Apple enabling Siri without the user's consent or notification. I've had it disabled for years on all my devices. And yet sometimes it triggers and i find it has been re-enabled.

 

[SuperJ]

This type of thing is why I love physical camera shutters on laptops and think there should be a physical switch the electrically disconnects the mics (there are bunch) on devices (not just a software switch). You can't trust any company to not misuse the power they wield.

 

[OrvGull]

That is why I have never activated Siri. I figured my device had to be listening to me all the time otherwise how would it know I said "Hey Siri"

The way it's normally supposed to work is the device itself handles "Hey Siri" detection, and until it detects it, no data goes to the cloud. The problem is "Hey Siri" detection is not 100% accurate and sometimes false triggers.

Unless you've turned off using the side button to trigger Siri, it's also really easy to accidentally trigger it when you're trying to unlock the screen.

I've disabled pretty much all the methods of waking Siri except the button on my car's steering wheel, because I do find voice commands useful when I'm driving.

 

[Secondfloor]

FYI- per the linked Reuter's article this is allegation:

Two plaintiffs said their mentions of Air Jordan sneakers and Olive Garden restaurants triggered ads for those products. Another said he got ads for a brand name surgical treatment after discussing it, he thought privately, with his doctor.

There's zero proof. That's why the plaintiffs settled, they get $10,000 each, the attorneys get $28.5M, the administrator gets $6M.

All you have to do is follow the money.

 

[jonah]

It seems like there's no way $95m will cover $20/person on the volumes Apple operates on in the US.

Conservatively, my wife and I purchased the full ten devices over that period of time. There's no way $95m covers paying us $200 after the lawyers get their cut.

 

[Tremoré]

95 million... for a breach of privacy?
Are they having a laugh? I'd say its worth a lot more than 20$ per device.

Slap them hard so they learn, this is just a rounding error to them.

 

[Secondfloor]

95 million... for a breach of privacy?
Are they having a laugh? I'd say its worth a lot more than 20$ per device.

Slap them hard so they learn, this is just a rounding error to them.

You have to prove it first. Which they have been unable to do for the last 5 years.

 

[techtuck]

The ads thing is clearly BS as such a conspiracy would need to extend to the ad companies. If there was really some secret deal for Apple to feed Siri transcripts or recordings to ad companies the whistle would have been blown a long time ago and Apple would have been destroyed in the press.

 

[markgo]

Recording conversations is an almost inevitable result of always-ready voice-activated personal assistants. That part is not great but in my opinion it's what you sign up for by using these services at all.

I would have liked the case to go to discovery about the targeted advertising part, though. If that is true -- and I don't know that there is any evidence it is -- it would be quite a significant violation of how Apple normally claims to handle user data. It's a shame that this case is sweeping that very important part under the rug.

Given that there is zero evidence of that other than the constant urban myth of “I talked about X and then I saw an ad for it, Apple/Google/Microsoft must be secretly recording and selling me down the river”, which even predates the iPhone, I’d be doubtful.

 

[Dzov]

That is why I have never activated Siri. I figured my device had to be listening to me all the time otherwise how would it know I said "Hey Siri"

The "Hey Siri" trigger in my experience is handled on the device. There have been many times I have bad reception and a "Hey Siri" gets an apology and to try later. Granted there are other times that I'm talking with someone and my phone thinks I'm asking it to do things.

 

[mosis]

With Apple moving into advertising and services more and more, it would have been nice to see this move forward to get any possible evidence (ie. forced to show internal documents and communications) and see if this is just allegation or there’s actually some truth to it. There’s always been the discussion about how it’s easy for Apple to champion their privacy policies as mostly a hardware company until their push into services and advertising which isn’t always aligned with privacy.

 

[Secondfloor]

It seems like there's no way $95m will cover $20/person on the volumes Apple operates on in the US.

Conservatively, my wife and I purchased the full ten devices over that period of time. There's no way $95m covers paying us $200 after the lawyers get their cut.

That's the maximum amount. Like all class action settles it will be prorated depending upon the number of claims.

Settlement Class Members may submit claims for up to five Siri Devices on which they claim to have experienced an unintended Siri activation during a conversation intended to be confidential or private. Settlement Class Members who submit valid claims shall receive a pro rata portion of the Net Settlement Amount for a Class Payment up to a cap of $20 per Siri Device. The amount available to Settlement Class Members will increase or decrease pro rata depending on the total number of valid claims submitted, and Siri Devices claimed. Depending on the total number of valid claims, this Plan of Allocation is subject to modification by agreement of the Parties without further notice to members of the Settlement Class, provided any such modification is approved by the Court

 

[Dzov]

95 million... for a breach of privacy?
Are they having a laugh? I'd say its worth a lot more than 20$ per device.

Slap them hard so they learn, this is just a rounding error to them.

This is a settlement and we don't know if there even was a breach of privacy.

 

[SraCet]

Ads are targeted based on IP address, location, temporal locality, etc. If somebody near you does a web search for something, you will start to see ads for that thing, even though you didn't do the web search.

If somebody near you sees an ad for something, they might be prompted to bring it up in conversation, and you will likely see the same ad, but you would have seen it regardless of the conversation.

A lot of these cases of "my devices must be listening to me!" have other, better explanations.

I'm very reluctant to believe that Apple might be selling Siri conversations (or accidental recordings) to advertisers for data mining.

The fact that Apple settled for only $95M tells me that both parties knew that it was basically just a nuisance lawsuit.

 

[Secondfloor]

The fact that Apple settled for only $95M tells me that both parties knew that it was basically just a nuisance lawsuit.

Yep. The equivalent of ambulance chasing lawyers.

 

[Secondfloor]

Stop using Android.

Do Android devices give access to the microphone without asking permission?

 

[techtuck]

It’s news to me that Apple sells user data for targeted advertising. I’d have thought that this is exactly the sort of thing that they’ve sworn up and down they don’t do. So… c’mon, Apple, WTF???

My guess is that they settled because there were plenty of accidental Siri activations (from personal experience alone I can say that anecdotally these happen on at least a monthly basis, although it has been improving and YMMV) and as the whistleblower noted, many were of a sensitive nature. I’m sure this data stayed with Apple for the reason I noted in an earlier post, but that they had the data at all was reason enough to settle.

 

[SraCet]

It’s news to me that Apple sells user data for targeted advertising. I’d have thought that this is exactly the sort of thing that they’ve sworn up and down they don’t do. So… c’mon, Apple, WTF???

WTF what?

I assume they don't do it.

This was a settlement, not an admission of guilt.

 

[NameRedacted]

Given that there is zero evidence of that other than the constant urban myth of “I talked about X and then I saw an ad for it, Apple/Google/Microsoft must be secretly recording and selling me down the river”, which even predates the iPhone, I’d be doubtful.

Whenever someone tells me this, I just wish they actually understood why this happened.

No, your phone (probably) isn’t listening to your conversations to sell you ads. But your activity is being tracked so closely that they don’t have to. Google knows where you were, who you were near, for how long, what your searched for afterwards as well as what everyone you were with searched for before, during, and after your conversation.

Sometimes I wonder if the “advertisers listen to your conversations” is actually spread by the advertising companies just so people don’t actually think too hard about how creepy the real activities are.

 

[evan_s]

Why are they offering a settlement for devices sold a few days ago? And why 5 devices? Why not per customer, or per device?

Simplest answer is because that's what the attorneys on both sides agreed to. I'm not a lawyer but I do work for a settlement administrator so get to deal with this sort of stuff regularly. Looking at the settlement agreement it is a hard cap of 5 devices per claim which will probably be per Apple ID. I assume the claim will be pretty much just selecting the devices associated with your Apple ID and some checkbox attesting that you experienced at least one unintended SIRI activation on said device. Sometimes you see higher caps with additional proof required but don't see that here.

The $20 per device is a pro-rata (proportional share) and that is the max so we shouldn't see something like the iPhone battery stuff where they didn't get a lot of claims and it actually paid out almost $100 per claim. If we do end up with a lot of claims that may be less, potentially much less. At 5 devices per claim it's only 950k completed claims before Attorney Fees and Claims Admin costs come out. That doesn't seem like a lot compared to the amount of users Apple has.


Over a 10 year period it's not hard to imagine most Apple users have had multiple devices. Offhand I was still using a 5s at the start of that period and had a 6s, 8 and 12 mini for phones. Not to mention the Apple watches and iPad I've also had during that time period so it shouldn't be hard for most people to hit the 5 device cap. Even my wife which hasn't been using Apple stuff for as long would still hit 5 devices. She's had an iPhone SE (second gen), iPhone 11, Apple Watch Series 3 and SE and an M1 Mac Book Air.

 

[taxythingy]

This the galling part to me. Apple is always talking about privacy and data security, and then they sell your data to advertisers for targeting (allegedly).

<snip>

Well, by settling, Apple are maintaining high standards of privacy and data security (by avoiding discovery.)

 

[techtuck]

FTA:

Sometimes Siri would be inadvertently activated, a whistleblower told The Guardian, when an Apple Watch was raised and speech was detected. The only clue that users seemingly had of Siri's alleged spying was eerily accurate targeted ads that appeared after they had just been talking about specific items like Air Jordans or brands like Olive Garden, Reuters noted.

This paragraph verges on misleading as the first and second sentences are completely separate matters. The whistleblower blew the whistle, in 2019, on the accidental activations and the sensitive nature of the captured recordings. There was no allegation from said whistleblower that the data was being transmitted to 3rd parties.

 

[mattlantis]

This case really pushes up against the root of the issue with tech today:

Apple repeatedly moved to dismiss the suit, arguing that "there are no facts, much less plausible facts, that tie Plaintiffs’ receipt of targeted ads to their speculation that Siri must have been listening to their conversations, and Apple must have used Siri to facilitate targeted ads by third parties."

We should know that they aren't doing that, not just take their word for it until shown otherwise. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories, I doubt that Apple specifically is doing that very much, they'd probably have been caught long before, the people buying the data would have leaked it. But it's still so silly that we just take their word for it. It doesn't have to be that way. Even if this one issue doesn't change, transparency should be the default and people should notice this more.