A few weeks with the Pocket 386, an early-‘90s-style, half-busted retro PC
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As an Ars reader of a Certain Age, my experience matches that of the staffers. I remember my 386DX running Windows 3.1. Windows 95 was on the Pentium II that was the next generation of PC that I had.
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I was looking at this and similar devices a few weeks ago. I wish someone would release something with a 486DX2 66Mhz, preferably with a turbo button for really old software. I seem to recall you could order those chips still at some point.
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IIRC, FreeDOS has native USB support so I wonder if that work on this device and negate having to use the device driver from Vogons.
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Yea, just saw your post after I said the same thing on mine!
There are a bunch of games that require a 486 (Ultima 7 and 8 come to mind) that would really be great.
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“I bought something off AliExpress and it kinda works” - feels like my usual experience with that market
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100%. I would love to finish some of the OG Ultimas, show my kid how to edit a config.sys in case he ever needs himem, and maybe dust off a few old Sierra games to see if they are still perfect.
I'd need a way to step down the processor with the turbo button or Roger Wilco just runs off the edge of the screen.
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These PCs are meant to be connected to old industrial machinery whose software requires an older architecture to operate properly - ISA cards can be connected to them. While these will have a certain charm for hobbyists looking for retro fun that isn't the target market.
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First IBM Compatible PC was a Gateway 2000 386DX 25mhz, 4mb RAM with a 80mb IDE hard drive (new at the time). DOS 5.x and Windows 3.1. After a ~$500 upgrade a couple of years later it had a Sound Blaster 16 a 2x CD ROM drive and 8mb of RAM (and a second hard drive in the 200mb range) also added the 387 co-processor to it.
Windows 95 installed fine, and ran pretty well on the DX 25 but boot times weren't the fastest. Windows 95 on an 386 SX would likely not be as pleasant of an experience. I've tried to explain to my kids how wild a time it was in the early 90s when compute power was increasing at such a high rate of speed.
Windows 95 installed fine, and ran pretty well on the DX 25 but boot times weren't the fastest. Windows 95 on an 386 SX would likely not be as pleasant of an experience. I've tried to explain to my kids how wild a time it was in the early 90s when compute power was increasing at such a high rate of speed.
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Also data transmission rates. I remember starting my online life with a 9.6 kb/s modem and having to get off if someone needed to make a telephone call.
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I just would love to be able to play the old Sierra games (King's Quest series)...albeit ideally on my Mac.
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So is running your company’s Exchange server from a laptop.
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The article said:
I might as well be the petty one: a 40Mhz 386SX does not meet the Windows 95 minimum requirements, which include an 80386DX. See the original box (in that case the German version because it's all I can find, but "PC mit 386DX- oder höherem Prozessor" means what you'd guess).
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Also an Ars reader of a certain age here. We didn't have windows 3.1 at home, I went from PCjr to 286 to Cyrix6x86. The last one was dual booting PCDOS 7.0 and OS/2 Warp.
I'm sure you can tell my father was an engineer for IBM.
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The original Doom it comes with isn't ideal, but is tolerable in half-resolution mode even at close to full screen; FastDoom is even better with floor and ceiling textures switched off. Give or take the keyboard.
I didn't try Syndicate but did take a run at Sim City; the built-in softmouse doesn't do diagonals so it's a real chore. I wouldn't like to try an action mouse game without a real mouse, and don't own a PS/2 mouse.
Sports 4d Driving/Stunts runs wonderfully, and is probably indicative of the era of DOS games to focus on. I've filled mine up with things like that, JetFighter 2, Robocop 3, etc. Essentially stuff you might also have seen on an Atari ST and Amiga, but a little better.
ARDI's Executor has been MIT licensed for about 15 years and the old DOS versions continue to hover around the internet. With a 40Mhz 386SX, this has a decent chance of being competitive with the original ~8Mhz Macs. But this I have not tried; I'm just mouthing off.
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Great article, I really love the idea of these modern retro-computing systems even if they're unwieldy in practice.
This was exactly what was going through my head while reading page 1. I hope this idea is carried on to produce something targeting a few generations newer, circa mid-90s. Pentium MMX era through Pentium II / K6-2 (III) would be perfect with 128MB RAM. The ability to run most pre-2000 software, support for Windows 95/98, and adequate performance for any use case with those. It feels counterintuitive to go much beyond that into the grey area between 98/XP support and the Pentium 3 / early Athlon chips. A 1000mhz-ish system like that would just tease users with barely acceptable performance in compatible XP era software (much like the Windows 95 experience with a 386).
Some would argue that painstakingly soldering a three (plus) decade old motherboard is one of the highlights in their retro project
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If you just want to play those specific games, you can on modern machines and probably with considerably less pain. You can get 'em off GOG for a few bucks each and play them in DOSBox.
And this will run U7 natively in various modern operating systems: https://exult.sourceforge.io/
I appreciate the nostalgia of old machines, and I look back fondly on the days of carefully crafting boot disks to get everything (sound, mouse, etc.) working with a few kb of memory to spare, but I would not want to relive them.
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If they try Doom, they should look at FastDoom, which has optimized DOS Doom to run on slower processors like the 386.
Here's an overview, it includes a demonstration of stock Doom on a 386, and benchmarks of various CPUs and different optimizations;
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAI8K7OzDQ
Download:
https://github.com/viti95/FastDoom
There's also the ports Doom8088 and RealDOOM, meant to run on 286 and even 8088 CPUs. These seem a bit earlier in development than FastDoom, but may have some advantages for slower CPUs. Here's Doom8088 running on a 386SX:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAX1-lNuUBY
And RealDOOM on a 286 (No sound implemented yet):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAZSVcseOvg
Downloads:
https://github.com/FrenkelS/Doom8088https://github.com/sqpat/RealDOOM
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Yea I am aware of exult, but having a mobile device with a keyboard would be ideal. You can run exult in TestFlight on iOS and from the play store on Android, but no physical keyboard.If you just want to play those specific games, you can on modern machines and probably with considerably less pain. You can get 'em off GOG for a few bucks each and play them in DOSBox.
And this will run U7 natively in various modern operating systems: https://exult.sourceforge.io/
I appreciate the nostalgia of old machines, and I look back fondly on the days of carefully crafting boot disks to get everything (sound, mouse, etc.) working with a few kb of memory to spare, but I would not want to relive them.
I own both from gog.
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Still have a Pentium 1 75MHz laptop on my attic. You can have it for a beer.
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The left? Oh...I see, the device's left. I feel all portables should have headphone jacks.Andrew Cunningham said:
Ah yes, the other left.Andrew Cunningham said:
Nothing is ever completely right.
I remember those days.Andrew Cunningham said:
ms: IE is built-into the OS!
everyone else: No, it isn't.
ms: Hang on a tick.
time passes
ms: IE is built-into the OS!
everyone else: Oh no, you didn't!
There was no benefit for anyone other than ms, who could then claim it was (actually) part of the OS.
I'm glad everything is different now.
ms: teams is built-into the OS!
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The creator of FreeDOS has one of these units, and he has shared a compact flash image with FreeDOS already installed --> https://fosstodon.org/@freedosproject/112634529411378369
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Mungus the Unhyphenated
Ars Tribunus Militum
The lack of a CMOS battery backup circuit is puzzling. I'm sure it cuts cost somewhere, but by how much, really?
At any rate I see this as more of a utility/hobby device to use for interfacing with ancient machine tools/industrial systems/radio systems/microcontrollers that are still in use because there's no appropriate or affordable substitute. It's for those times when a USB serial or parallel adapter just can't replace native hardware, or when the software needed relies on hardware and won't play nice in virtualization/emulation. In those sorts of applications, you can probably deal with taking a few minutes to set some BIOS parameters before going on to booting DOS or Windows 3.1 and getting to work on something. When you're done, it will probably be put away for months at a time, which might not be optimal for the BIOS backup; some of the older systems tended to draw more power and did better plugged-in and not (relatively quickly) eating the BIOS battery. So perhaps it's a feature, for a specific use case.
At any rate I see this as more of a utility/hobby device to use for interfacing with ancient machine tools/industrial systems/radio systems/microcontrollers that are still in use because there's no appropriate or affordable substitute. It's for those times when a USB serial or parallel adapter just can't replace native hardware, or when the software needed relies on hardware and won't play nice in virtualization/emulation. In those sorts of applications, you can probably deal with taking a few minutes to set some BIOS parameters before going on to booting DOS or Windows 3.1 and getting to work on something. When you're done, it will probably be put away for months at a time, which might not be optimal for the BIOS backup; some of the older systems tended to draw more power and did better plugged-in and not (relatively quickly) eating the BIOS battery. So perhaps it's a feature, for a specific use case.
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I have run Windows 95 in really shitty computers but even optimising things the best I could I mostly ended using "Dos mode" wordpad and solitary; anything else was from impossible to slowville.
You may as well use the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32s libraries in Windows 3.1 instead for some 32 bit action. Not that many stuff will work but is something.
You may as well use the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32s libraries in Windows 3.1 instead for some 32 bit action. Not that many stuff will work but is something.
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This is something nobody who buys it will use more than 30 minutes.
Old DOS games is essentially the only valid reason to have this.
Its not good enough to play Wing Commander 3 or 4.
I use these as examples due to the fact that they were the DOS PC crushing titles in the 90s.
Old DOS games is essentially the only valid reason to have this.
Its not good enough to play Wing Commander 3 or 4.
I use these as examples due to the fact that they were the DOS PC crushing titles in the 90s.
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You may be better off getting a Netbook or something.
The Pocket 386 costs around $200 and is 210 x 120 x 30mm (8.3″ x 4.7″ x 1.2″) in size.
An old Asus eeePC 900 series netbook is about 170mm(L) x 225mm(W) x 34mm(H). So a bit bigger, but with a built-in trackpad, and much better performance:
https://event.asus.com/eeepc/comparison/eeepc_comparison.htm
You could probably get one for $30-$50 shipped:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2332490.m570.l1313&_nkw=ASUS+Eee+PC+900&_sacat=0
You could also look at other small laptops pcs like the Sony VAIO UX series, Vaio VGN-P series, OQO Model 02
There's also the GPD Win series, which are still being made. The latest 2024 model start at around $700, but if you're ok with a used older model, you can probably get one for around $200. The first model was 155 x 97 x 22 mm in size, They also have the GPD Pocket series, which isn't as gaming focused, but would likely work for the games you want to play.
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For those wondering, Linux support for the 386 was dropped in 2012. It still supports the 486 though you have to hunt for a distro compiled to target it.
The 386 lacks CMPXCHG which Linux uses extensively for synchronization. The 386 version of Linux had an emulated version that was very slow.
The 386 lacks CMPXCHG which Linux uses extensively for synchronization. The 386 version of Linux had an emulated version that was very slow.
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My very first computer was a 33 MHz 386SX running Windows 95. My dad claimed it was all we could afford at the time (and maybe that's true), but I think he secretly got me an underpowered computer on purpose.
I taught myself how to overclock it (I had it running stable at 66 MHz) and how to upgrade it (added RAM, a CD-ROM, a Diamond FX, and a sound card). That computer being just a wee bit too slow for me to run the games I wanted is what got me started learning about, fixing, and building computers.
I taught myself how to overclock it (I had it running stable at 66 MHz) and how to upgrade it (added RAM, a CD-ROM, a Diamond FX, and a sound card). That computer being just a wee bit too slow for me to run the games I wanted is what got me started learning about, fixing, and building computers.
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To be fair, I don't recall MS claiming IE was built into the US until they actually bundled it into the OS and integrated the Trident rendering engine into the OS for various feature, like the Windows Explorer integration in Windows 95 C.
Even when tools were developed to remove IE, they left the rendering engine in place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_Internet_Explorer
And there's clearly a benefit to consumers for including a web browser out of the box, as well as integrating a web renderer into the OS, as both MacOS and most Linux distros do it.
To my mind, the issue with MS was the fact that their near monopoly power hurt other web browsers with the integration/bundling move, and MS's disingenuous insistence of conflating IE and the Trident renderer, insisting since the renderer was integrated, the IE program couldn't be removed. Making Windows Update an ActiveX website initially didn't help matters either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
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This kind of reminds me of the Apple II, at least in terms of home-madeness. Look at the ribbon cables just hanging out 'round back! It's very much an enthusiast's machine, and I love it.
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They play fine on both DosBOX and in ScummVM. The games themselves are available from GOG. No reason to buy sketchy lackluster hardware to do a sub-par job.
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I'm not surprised Win95 is a stretch for this thing. DOS & Win3.x is definitely a better fit for the specs. That said if you do want to run a fully 32 bit OS then NT 3.51 would run a lot better, or OS/2 v2.x. (NT4 or OS/2 Warp 3 are probably also a bit too much of a reach.) For a *nix option I'd skip old crusty Linux versions that can be a nightmare to get running (especially Xwindows) and go with a modern BSD build which has very broad support for old hardware and can be tuned with an appropriately simple window manager to run on very constrained systems. archLinux might be another option if you're willing to do a lot of tweaking and Linux is a hard requirement.
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I like my Pocket 386. FreeDOS 1.3 is much nicer than the included Win95 install. The OPL3 works great in games, the display beats the heck out of actual early 90s laptop LCDs... I just wish the whole thing were big enough to reliably touch-type.
Arch got a reputation for being fast in part because the original 32 bit port was compiled for i686, the Pentium II, by default.
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fellow human
Ars Praefectus
Well said, this was my thought too, though my conclusion is just stick to emulation so you can tune the performance to what you're trying to do. The 90s were a rollercoaster of hardware improving in leaps and bounds but then software leapfrogging it and making everything frustratingly slow. As much I like retro stuff I have little desire to go back to that!
I love that people are doing this though and enjoy reading about it.
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