8 dead, 2,700 injured after simultaneous pager explosions in Lebanon

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reader comments A massive wave of coordinated pager explosions across Lebanon and Syria around 3:30 pm local time today has killed at least eight people and injured more than 2,700, according to local officals. Many of the injured appear to be Hezbollah members. New York Times reporters captured the chaos of the striking scene in […]

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D

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That statement is tired. It may have been the case 60+ years ago. Today, Israel is in no danger of being exterminated. The entire middle east could attack them and most UN nations would defend them.
Would they? Hezbollah has been firing missiles at Israeli civilians and trying to take out Iron Dome defenses for years. The Gazan military drew up a map to occupy Israel after their October 7th invasion. But here we are, commenting on an article about Hezbollah's communication network being attacked and people are still trying to make excuses for Hezbollah.

Edit to add: Hezbollah has been violating UN Security Council Resolution 1701 which states they cannot cross the Litani River. Resolution 1701 ended the Lebanese-Israeli war in the mid-2000s. Despite Hezbollah clearly violating this order, there isn't a UN force trying to repel them and make them comply with the order.
 
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zarkonite

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It was just minor terrorism, not bombing civilians, is really the line we're drawing as being acceptable now?

They didn't just brick all their pagers. If this was a firmware hack that would have been easy.

This wasn't "destroying communication". It was indiscriminately setting off small explosives in a city. There is no other word for this but terrorism.

These pagers were distributed by Hezbollah for Hezbollah members. We'll have to wait and see if any civilians were injured, and how big the explosions were. By your logic, and the lack of factual information, we wouldn't even be allowed to shoot a terrorist in public.
 
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deus01

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Also I couldn't tell at first which group they were talking about. Israeli "settlers" are very clearly used as human shields for Israel. They get impunity to attack Gaza civilians, and if those civilians ever fight back and lay a hand on a "settler" the IDF uses that as an excuse for taking more houses.

Prior to 10/7 Israel didn't occupy Gaza since 2005. Settlers are a problem in the West Bank
 
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Dachannien

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Would it even have reception on a plane?

This depends on how the signal was sent. This is different from a cell phone network, where there's two-way communications, the cell phone and the base station have to do handshakes, etc. A pager just receives a radio signal that contains a packet of data, looks at the packet to see if it's the intended recipient, and then beeps and shows a message (usually a phone number) contained in the packet on the display. Or, in this case, it blows up. There's also no spoofing control on pagers. No digital signature, no encryption of any kind, just an address and a message.

You could do this by contacting the pager service and sending individual messages to every pager. Or, you could just send a really loud radio signal across the border where everything across the whole country can pick it up. In that case, planes would almost certainly be included, since the horizontal distance is dozens of km and the vertical distance is maybe 10 km. Given the near simultaneous explosion of close to 3000 devices, that seems the most likely.
 
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I doubt that is the reason - Bibi has been pretty good at ignoring anything Biden has said.
IMHO, it's the massive arsenal of rockets Hezbollah has accumulated over years, which would likely totally swamp the iron dome and cause massive wreckage in Israel. Yes, it would also be the end of Hezbollah, at least as we know it now, which is why Hezbollah will only unleash it if desperate. They prefer the status quo.
You're right of course, about Bibi and Biden. But there's a real dilemma for Israeli strategists. Hezbollah have effectively moved the Israeli border south at a relatively low cost.

Meanwhile Hezbollah have a formidable arsenal but Israel have greatly superior intelligence, and air superiority, and might believe they have no choice but to act soon rather than let Hezbollah become even stronger.

I really think they may attack regardless, but would still prefer Hezbollah to make the first move so as to provide more diplomatic cover and make it easier for the US to back them. During the last Lebanon war world opinion turned against Israel quickly. And they won't be able to ban journalists from Lebanon as they have in Gaza.

It might seem Bibi doesn't care, but really it's Smotrich and Ben Gvir who are happy to give Biden the finger. Bibi prefers Trump but he knows it's unhelpful to piss off the current administration while still needing US bombs, dollars and Security Council vetoes
 
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To be fair, they have not held an election since gaining power, so to say they are democratic is a stretch. The majority of the population has never voted for them, or voted at all.
And they also were not democratically elected either. They won a small portion of the seats of government, and then performed a violent coup to take over the rest of government.
 
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25 (30 / -5)
How many Israeli civilians need to die then? When will the Gazan government return the hostages they raped and murdered?
Which hostages were raped? Some rape may have occurred on Oct 7, but nothing systematic, and almost nothing verified by non-IDF sources. Rape of Palestinian captives held without charge by Israeli soldiers is national policy, though, defended in Knesset committee meetings even by sitting Members of Knesset from the ruling party.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFLiWDMoYy8


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ver8-aky-w
 
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Aurich

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Conflicting info
Some speculate there may of been a small explosive inside them (crazy if true and shows they didn't really take security seriously)
But conversely looking on a Lebanon news website, its saying quoting an official as saying some people noticed their pagers heating up so they disposed of them before they exploded, which does sound like thermal runaway, which is terrifying to have an outside actor being able to trigger your phone etc to explode remotely.
I wonder if it could have been both?

Meaning thermal runaway was the trigger for an additional explosive element, and combined you got that outcome.

I know very little about explosives. But just for the sake of argument if there was a black powder packet next to the battery, and thermal runaway ignited it next to the battery.

I presume if there was any further catalyst in there it will have left a residue that labs will find soon enough.
 
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cbreak

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Doesn’t seem to have that kind of power. People have a finger blown off or a gash opened where they carried the pager. You’re not going to take down a plane that way.
The terrorists killed 8 people. What do you think would have happened if one of them was a pilot?
 
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barich

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D

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Which hostages were raped? Some rape may have occurred on Oct 7, but nothing systematic, and almost nothing verified by non-IDF sources. Rape of Palestinian captives held without charge by Israeli soldiers is national policy, though, defended in Knesset committee meetings even by sitting Members of Knesset from the ruling party.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wUhdh8NLe0s

‘Clear and convincing information’ that hostages held in Gaza subjected to sexual violence, says UN Special Representative

You don't have to lie about the Gazan military raping Israeli civilians to be made about the Israeli soldiers who did the same.
 
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azazel1024

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I am curious if this was just the batteries or if it will turn out explosives were added to the devices.

I do find it hard to believe that the batteries could explode with the amount of force that is being suggested, but maybe if you hit batteries with software designed to make them explode it is possible to force a much more energetic release than a typical battery failure has where the software is not actively trying to make it explode.
Based on the information passing around, this is almost certainly explosive placed in the pagers and not the batteries being forced to overheat and pop. They are not remotely energetic enough to match the videos of the explosions captured or the damage that is being reported.

Israel appears to have targeted a batch of pagers that Hezbollah was picking up. There does sound like probably collateral damage. But it also sounds likely the vast majority were Hezbollah members injured or killed by the attack.

I am certainly not condoning this as it is fairly indiscriminate. When someone’s daughter, niece, whatever, happens to have Dad/Uncle’s pager and it blows up…

A few grams of RDX in the pager would fit just fine. And the battery itself certainly has the juice to set off RDX.

A lithium battery short circuiting isn’t even a low order explosive. It’ll burn you really bad, that’s it.

A few grams of RDX is plenty to blow a hole in your leg if it is in your pocket.
 
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10 (11 / -1)
Israel are the ones doing the exterminating right now. How many Palestinians have died vs. Israelis in the present conflict?
Israel is concentrating the entire population of Gaza into a beach next to the desert at the very south. aka a concentration camp. There are death camps and torture camps where captives are held without charge, raped to death, and tortured in the genitals and anus with hot irons. Top level ministers have called for shooting all prisoners to save costs, or starving 2 million people to death as the "moral thing to do, but the world won't let us".

The parallels to Nazi Germany are too obvious too ignore, yet it baffles the mind that some people will still uncritically repeat all the Israeli propaganda talking points.
 
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Kebba

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Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. Lithium batteries burn, they don't generally explode. Is there a way to make one explode if you literally build one to do specifically that? Like, a reinforced casing that would contain the reaction until the pressure was high enough to detonate? It sounds like this blew off fingers and hands and shit, so we're talking about decent explosive power - like, a dodgy rez M-80's worth. You could theoretically cram that into a pager, I suppose, but.....it's weird.
Li-ion batteries that are "rigid", like 18650s and the prismatic I am familiar with (and probably most other) have pressure relief valves/features to vent the cell if pressure build up. That they "just" burn is a conscious choice. The flame you see is probably gas vented through this valve that ignites

Now, if sabotaging or disabling said valve is by itself enough to achieve the observed damage I have no idea. But a completely sealed cell would absolutely be more destructive in thermal runaway
 
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Barmaglot

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This wasn't "destroying communication". It was indiscriminately setting off small explosives in a city. There is no other word for this but terrorism.
Bull. Shit. This was as targeted an attack as it gets. The pagers were on a closed Hezbollah network - you couldn't have one of those if you weren't a member, and I'd wager that you'd need to be at least lower management-equivalent to rate one. The explosions were also tiny - in the videos, you can see a carrier collapsing, while a bystander literally a foot away is unscathed. Your pearl-clutching would be hilarious if it wasn't so ridiculous.
 
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TheStargateIsReal

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Prior to 10/7 Israel didn't occupy Gaza since 2005. Settlers are a problem in the West Bank
You say problem, they say solution. After 10/7 most settlement construction was accelerated. Israelis for the most part now accept they will never live in peace so are going to build the most sophisticated security state this side of China. The involves interleaving trusted and non trusted populations. Agree, disagree, they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.
 
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‘Clear and convincing information’ that hostages held in Gaza subjected to sexual violence, says UN Special Representative

You don't have to lie about the Gazan military raping Israeli civilians to be made about the Israeli soldiers who did the same.
Yes, I know, I responded to your specific wording about rape on purpose. From your link:
The team also found a pattern of victims - mostly women - found fully or partially naked, bound and shot across multiple locations which “may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence”.

In some locations the mission said it could not verify reported incidents of rape.

Note the dateline of your article. Note the dateline of this one, after much more information was revealed:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...fueled-a-global-dispute-over-israel-hamas-war
 
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I wonder if it could have been both?

Meaning thermal runaway was the trigger for an additional explosive element, and combined you got that outcome.

I know very little about explosives. But just for the sake of argument if there was a black powder packet next to the battery, and thermal runaway ignited it next to the battery.

I presume if there was any further catalyst in there it will have left a residue that labs will find soon enough.
Yes. Or a small layer of plastic explosive inside the sealed battery perhaps?

The Guardian quotes Israeli analyst Yossi Melman as saying the pagers are a new model recently acquired, and he believes Mossad would have pre sabotaged the batch.

Mossad have shown time and again they can defeat Hezbollah and Iranian security. Look at Haniyeh's assassination for example. In fact for all the threat they pose, neither HZ nor Iran seem especially competent st operational security. Or at least not compared to Israel.

EDIT - the reason they're using pagers in the first place is that Israel previously compromised both their fixed line and mobile telecoms networks. Reminds me of The Wire.

Time for carrier pigeons maybe, although Israel would probably find a way to booby trap them too
 
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cbreak

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These were pagers distributed by Hezbollah to their fighters to coordinate their attacks on Israel. The attack destroyed that means of communication.

It's a legit target.

Certainly, more focused than lobbing missiles into urban areas.
Blowing up a little girl is not justified, it's terrorism. No matter if the russians, the israelis, or the palestinean terrorists do it.
 
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-5 (22 / -27)
The IDF is moving Gazan civilians out of active warzones while the IDF combats the Gazan military.
Sure they are.
"We are horrified by yesterday’s airstrikes targeting Al-Mawassi area in Khan Younis, which have reportedly killed at least 90 and injured about 300 people, including many women and children. The Israeli military has designated the area a “safe zone” where displaced civilians have set up tents and makeshift shelters. However, as humanitarians on the ground in Gaza we know that nowhere is safe in Gaza.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupi...dozens-people-and-leave-hundreds-more-injured
 
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faffod

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The difference between "terrorism" and "counter-terrorism" is mostly just branding, after all.
I'm sure I've been ninjaed... but still need to say : NO. Counter-terrorism should not be accepted as "bomb them first". Doing that just justifies the terrorist's methods with the added propaganda benefit that they can claim to be picked on by the big bullies. At a minimum counter terrorism should be intelligence, reasonable hardening of targets. At best it would also include removing the systematic reasons that the disenfranchised would be willing to be recruited by the terrorists. You'll never get to 0 crime, but you certainly can make it hard for the recruitment.
 
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Jeff S

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It may be. But its not a war crime. If you put fighters in a church, a school, a hospital it loses its safe harbor status.

And the ratio of civilians to military killed is insanely good in this fight. We certainly didn't achieve these ratios in Iraq or Afghanistan. You can bitch about it but all Hamas had to do to avoid having hospitals bombed is move fighters out.
Or Israel could have sent fighters in to clear it out, which may have resulted in a few civilian casualties, but the hospital would have remained intact and could pretty quickly be put back into service providing medical care after Hamas was cleared out of it.

Now Gaza has no hospitals, so there's basically nowhere to get medical services (I suppose, if any end ever comes to this conflict, the first order of business will be to setup some sort of temporary medical facilities - tents, prefab trailers brought in by ship and truck, etc. But clearly those aren't as good as an actual hospital.
 
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wavelet

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Come on, “The alternative”? Like there’s only one?

Nobody forced the state actor here to blow up these devices.

The Northern 10% of Israel has been evacuated for a year, with the population losing a large % of their homes & jobs to rocketry, ATGM and UAV attacks. That population are internal refugees, and people still die there from Hizb'Allah attacks almost daily. And Hizb'Allah hasn't had a legit beef since the total IDF withdrawal in 2000.
Hizb'Allah has ~300K long range rockets and ~150K shorter-range rockets all aimed here, with no possible defensive use.
Lebanon has been a failed state for decades, with zero control of its own territory.

So your preferred alternative would be that Israel uses neutron bombs to create a 50km DMZ in Southern Lebanon?
 
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Other sources state that the Gazan military was using that camp as a barracks.
Then you don't mind sharing that source? All the mainstream media articles will at most state "IDF sources say...".

Just ONE non-IDF source, please, who can verify there was any Hamas target in that attack.
 
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10 (26 / -16)
Depending on how far into the supply chain the attack might've gone, I could see how the pagers could basically be built around the attack. If the batteries could be built around a switchable resistor that could be set to generate heat within the battery, and if all of that could be built into a sealed enclosure with no room for battery expansion, I could see the pagers essentially turning into mini frag grenades, especially considering different types of enclosure construction material.

But that's mainly me just talking out my ass - I'm certain someone who actually knew what they were doing could make it work.
 
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D

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Then you don't mind sharing that source? All the mainstream media articles will at most state "IDF sources say...".

Who can independently verify the IDF's bullshit, when the IDF has banned or executed all journalists in Gaza?
CNN.

In the article, IDF directly names the Gazan military members that were using the camp as a hideout.
 
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wavelet

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Oh, for fuck's sake, I'm responding to someone asserting Hamas is the "Gazan military," which is insultingly stupid and incorrect. Hamas is not a military. That has fuck-all to do with whether they are terrorists, which they are, or whether they use human shields and operate in civilian areas, which they do, or with defending them, which I am obviously and manifestly not.

Don't insult my intelligence or condescend to me. And just in general, give people around here the benefit of the doubt and don't just go straight to assuming they're holding the most simpleminded, least informed possible position just so you can indulge in some hyperbole and grandstanding.
What's incorrect about it? Hanas and PiS ("Palestinian" Islamic Jihad) are the only only military forces in the Gaza Strip (tne local police is also part of Hamas), are supported by the majority of the population and are the de-facto government.
 
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CNN.

In the article, IDF directly names the Gazan military members that were using the camp as a hideout.
Ok, like I said, the only place this is coming from is the IDF. Do you have a real source? Because the IDF is not a real source. THey've claimed they killed a "terrorist" in an attack that they already claimed to kill in an earlier attack.
 
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