Why are wildfires raging across Southern California? Well, it’s complicated.

"I think we’ve got more questions than answers at this point."

See full article...

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Given these pilots are endangering thousands of lives, maybe more than a fine is appropriate. 25 to life.

For a first offence perhaps a tad extreme.

But I'd make them pay for the repairs to the aircraft. That won't be cheap.

Oh, and apologise in person to the pilot.

 

[DovePig]

First, my thoughts out to all the affected.

Second, quite a bit disappointed TFA doesn't mention climate change more as a very likely driver behind it all, instead just quoting some nonsense political criticism.

Like hydroclimatic whiplash, with a very wet season (increased vegetation growth) followed by a very dry season, leading to lots of now dry fuel ready to burn.

And with climate change, those extremes are going to be even more common. In a few more decades of "business as usual", nobody would bat an eye at such a wildfire, as they will be considered "perfectly normal" for the season...

 

[AdrianS]

Need to look up Lynda and Stewart Resnick. Their company OWNS the water rights in a LOT of California. Her and her husband own The Wonderful Company, Pistachios, POM, Fiji water among other brands. Not to mention all the water CA has pumped out into the ocean to
"protect" some fish.

​

What the fuck does that have to do with this story?

Take your right-wing trolling to another website.

 

[AdrianS]

If only we spent our money on fire prevention / brush removal and prescribed burns instead of Gavins toy choo-choo train. This fire is not "Gavins's fault" but he has done 0 to improve anything with regard to wildland fire prevention and instead spent his time pissing on Trump and having it blow back in his face.

Why not just post "I'm a fucking idiot" and save a bunch of bandwidth?

 

[AdrianS]

Oh well - apparently there is nothing that can be done then. I guess the people should just move away rather than rebuild ... /s

But seriously, whilst not all fires are equal - our responses to fires are not equal as well. In Australia, the West seems to do a bit better than the eastern states. That is not to say that there are less fires, it is just that less structures are damaged and destroyed. One of the reasons might be because homes in the West are built using double brick rather than brick veneer, but a simpler and more cost effective reason is because they use larger fire breaks (bulldozers clearing paths away from trees, brush and debris)

Seeing the news about abandoned cars blocking roads, preventing access for firefighters seems to indicate that firebreaks do not exist in LA, or not enough of them exists - because firebreaks are not just to slow fires, but also allow access for firefighters and firefighting equipment. The large swaths of homes burnt down also seems to indicate that a lot of these homes are highly flammable. They don't need to be built with steel and concrete, but there are other options such as brick, stone, and clay/terracotta tiles. Even insulation should be fire retardant.

As an Australian who was also an RFS volunteer for nearly 10 years, kindly stop victim blaming and taking rot about things you don't really understand.

 

[serafean]

You'd think the gas company could shut off entire neighbourhoods remotely instead of having to send people out to individual lots. Or are you talking about flaring off the gas left in the lines between the neighbourhood shutoff and the individual lots?

This is something I learned this year during the floods in Europe: you can't shut down an entire gas network when the endpoints are presumed open. That allows for dirt and other stuff to get into the pipes (possibly further), potentially destroying the entire network.

During the floods, officials were warning about gas leaks on plots where there used to be houses, and the entire nation went "WTF, just turn off the network", so the media actually went to the gas utilities to ask why.

 

[AdrianS]

I know you don't have answers to all the questions yet, which is fine, but this still seems like half a story when you don't report on any of the outrageous and baseless claims being made.

The lies are being spread by Elon Musk (among others).

The article is written by Eric Berger.

Do you really expect any criticism or Elon from Eric? Really?
Never in a million years, nothing to see here, move along.

 

[gregorerlich]

In Australia, the West seems to do a bit better than the eastern states. That is not to say that there are less fires, it is just that less structures are damaged and destroyed. One of the reasons might be because homes in the West are built using double brick rather than brick veneer, but a simpler and more cost effective reason is because they use larger fire breaks (bulldozers clearing paths away from trees, brush and debris)

Pretty sure the reason is because, relatively speaking, nobody lives in the West but ok, sounds like you've got it all figured out.

 

[gregorerlich]

Something like 30% of CalFire’s force is non-violent inmates being paid a dollar and a half, I think? Inmates who cannot then use that experience after release to get a firefighting job… because of their criminal record.

Slavery was never really abolished... Just curtailed.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

It comes down to this fires don't start by themselves they have to have a ignition source be it
man,electrical or lighting.

...and?

 

[omarsidd]

The Palisades wildfire and other nearby conflagrations were well-predicted days in advance

This is misleading, Eric.
The fires have been described as unprecedented by every source I've seen. Redflag warnings are up any time there's hot-dry-high winds and are not themselves a predictor of a major disaster. Here in Maryland we get multiple days of red flag warnings most years during dry spells. (spoiler: no major wildfires)
They are predicting increased risk, not some specific likelihood or probability.

I've also read multiple locals commenting that the santa ana winds are never so strong at the coast- the windtunnel effect is usually in the mountain foothills. Again, not expected.

Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass has taken considerable flack for being out of the country this week as part of a delegation to celebrate the inauguration of Ghana President John Mahama

I suspect this slant on social media is probably a right-wing racist dogwhistle campaign.
Apart from LA's mayor having no jurisdiction in the rest of the county, nor having any role in firefighting anyway, as others have pointed out.... There's also that she was already abroad- she didn't leave during the disaster- and we all know you can't "just come back" when it's that far and lacking direction connections. She apparently ended up getting a seat on some military transport for her return.
But right-wingers don't know geography or care about nuances, so it's easy to pull over on them. And they probably like the tone of "look at this dark-skinned mayor, it's a WOMAN, and she's over in AFRICA consorting with those natives".
We should handle this one with the skepticism it deserves, if even bothering to mention it at all.

Finally: I don't know what the guy in comments talking about $20M home is on about- I saw blocks of all kinds of "normal" homes destroyed. Those burned out cars looked like everyday folks vehicles.
Even the footage of the destruction in Malibu, I drove past there in recent years and there were a ton of little mom&pop places in the pictured stretch, that are likely gone now.
And whether rich or not, those are people's lives too. And also everybody who depended on the 20M house- be nasty to the handful fo rich folks, if it floats your boat. But why are you reveling in their housekeeper, lawn guys, nanny having their lives destroyed?

This whole episode has made me think (even better) of Californians and even less well of America at large.

 

[SubWoofer2]

Pretty sure the reason is because, relatively speaking, nobody lives in the West but ok, sounds like you've got it all figured out.

That comes across as a little snippy. Perhaps some time at this West Australia policy, information, and guidance links page and you'll have a takeaway similar to mine: that it's not all figured out but a lot of water has flowed under the bridge on the way to getting some solid useful solutions.

The 2024 policies and actions are based on a review started in 2019 and now into its final months.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

LosAngeles also has the largest homeless population in the USA, estimated around 80,000. Anyone could have stared the fires.

Besides, arson is already a crime, accidents by stupid people are going to happen, and good luck stopping lightning and other natural fire-events.

 

[arcite]

I'm putting this in a separate comment as it is largely a separate idea that should be judged separately.

I believe all humans deserve the basic necessities of life like stable sources of food, water, housing, and healthcare, even the most repugnant among us. Just because these humans may be morally corrupt, and the stable housing that they lost is luxurious, does not change the reality that they have been deprived of something I believe is deserved by all (stable housing) and that they are, in very real ways, (though to a lesser degree than many) are suffering. Would I prefer that we didn't have single family dwellings that took up 20 million dollars worth of resources? Absolutely! Do I think that the accumulation of that much wealth is just? Well that's in the neighbourhood of my upper limit. However human suffering in general should not be any more palatable simply because we don't like some aspect of that persons behaviour. Yes, I sometimes take pleasure in the suffering of those I feel are evil, especially when that suffering is a direct consequence of their actions, but I'm not proud of that and I do feel empathy towards the suffering of even the most deplorable humans.

This is what happens to any society when the gulf between rich and poor becomes so great. There is a breakdown of what constitutes ‘common good’; lack of investment in basic infrastructure, austerity for the poor and tax breaks for the rich, poor environmental practices —— and all of it culminated to produce the fires. Climate change just gave it all a little push.

 

[arcite]

They're waiting for the call

Canada sent a few water bombers….and I was watching one of the local LA news feeds, they reported one of the water bombers was hit by a drone mid-flight, damaging the wing, now grounded, the FBI are investigating. So now there is one fewer water bomber in the air thanks to some moron with a drone.

 

[graylshaped]

...and?

Well, if we suck all of the oxygen out of the area...

 

[arcite]

Is this true? How does this not classify as slavery?

Oh my sweet summer child. This is America, the land where slavery was very much a thing for a few centuries.

 

[hlehmann]

So, if this sort of thing is only going to get more common in future, are there any practical changes to building codes that could help reduce the flammability of neighbourhoods without compromising seismic resilience?

Code changes have been made over the years. Wood shake roofs were outlawed here decades ago. There are also now requirements for things like attic vents so that burning embers cannot get inside. Trouble is, these codes are only for new construction. There are probably still houses in southern California with wood shake roofs.

 

[Hymenoptera]

This is what happens to any society when the gulf between rich and poor becomes so great. There is a breakdown of what constitutes ‘common good’; lack of investment in basic infrastructure, austerity for the poor and tax breaks for the rich, poor environmental practices —— and all of it culminated to produce the fires. Climate change just gave it all a little push.

Climate change may also, rather than a little push, be regarded as part of that culmination.

 

[arcite]

Really sad about all the historic buildings being lost. As others have observed….it’s like a warzone (ie. Gaza or Ukraine)

 

[AdrianS]

Pretty sure the reason is because, relatively speaking, nobody lives in the West but ok, sounds like you've got it all figured out.

We had some crews from WA over to help us in the Nowra fires.
They were far more set up for grass and scrub fires in open country than forest fires in mountainous terrain.
It was interesting comparing notes with them.

That was when we melted the side mirrors on the truck...

 

[vze33jng]

I know you don't have answers to all the questions yet, which is fine, but this still seems like half a story when you don't report on any of the outrageous and baseless claims being made.

Completely agree. Couldn't believe the article was over at two pieces of information. There's lots more in the comments, at least.

 

[Bzored]

If only California raked its forests better.....

Did he blame Texas and it's terrible governor for 250+ people dying when their power grid died for 2 weeks due to stupid government decisions not to join National power grid? I'm guessing... not some how.

 

[runemail]

So, if this sort of thing is only going to get more common in future, are there any practical changes to building codes that could help reduce the flammability of neighbourhoods without compromising seismic resilience?

Judging by the political changes lately most Americans are regressing back to caveman levels anyway. This will sort itself out.

 

[Wickwick]

Salt the earth? Please re-think that. Ecosystems recover from fire. Not from poisoned earth.

I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of salt that could be delivered to an area, the amount of vegetation in residential neighborhoods, and ignoring that LA is a sea-side area where plants have evolved at least a minimum of tolerance for salt. Compared to any midwestern city salting roads, the amount of salt we're discussing is minimal.

 

[Wickwick]

Practical - maybe. Affordable - probably not. Building codes prioritize loss of life over loss of property and are generally designed to protect the building for long enough to allow people to escape and/or be rescued before major collapse. There are requirements for structures made of combustible materials (wood) to be a certain distance from other structures to prevent a localized fire from spreading, but in general, building codes have very little authority over what happens outside of the building - that primarily falls on local zoning ordinances that establish fire/flood districts or other unique conditions with unique compliance requirements. Another commenter mentioned steel and concrete, which are already in most new homes, just not on the outside as that would be prohibitively expensive to the general homebuyer. Brick is probably the most cost effective non combustible cladding material for homes but you typically don't build roofs out of it and it's usually supported behind by wood framing .

Concrete block is far more affordable than brick. Given that we're talking about an earthquake prone area, I suspect one would have to fill the voids with poured concrete and rebar strategically, but the same structural concern would exist for brick.

 

[graylshaped]

I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of salt that could be delivered to an area, the amount of vegetation in residential neighborhoods, and ignoring that LA is a sea-side area where plants have evolved at least a minimum of tolerance for salt. Compared to any midwestern city salting roads, the amount of salt we're discussing is minimal.

As 21five posted, there is a valid opportunity for a seaside city to pull from the ocean as a "last resort"--that poster's phrase, and I am fine with that. I would be concerned with pumping saltwater into an ecosystem NOT evolved with plantings that tolerate seawater. Using it my town? Sure, if other options fail--I'm a mile from the beach. Hell, Dublin was saved from a massive fire by dumping manure from local stables onto the burning whisky flowing through the gutters.

In the hills above Pasadena? Only if you want to make re-growing the vegetation that helps prevent massive landslides much, much less likely to happen. Putting out a fire that way would be quite the Pyrrhic victory.

 

[serafean]

Is this true? How does this not classify as slavery?

Even if it does, it's not an issue with prisoners:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted

US constitution, 13th amendment.

 

[Wickwick]

As 21five posted, there is a valid opportunity for a seaside city to pull from the ocean as a "last resort"--that poster's phrase, and I am fine with that. I would be concerned with pumping saltwater into an ecosystem NOT evolved with plantings that tolerate seawater. Using it my town? Sure, if other options fail--I'm a mile from the beach. Hell, Dublin was saved from a massive fire by dumping manure from local stables onto the burning whisky flowing through the gutters.

In the hills above Pasadena? Only if you want to make re-growing the vegetation that helps prevent massive landslides much, much less likely to happen. Putting out a fire that way would be quite the Pyrrhic victory.

I wasn't suggesting fighting undeveloped areas with sea water. I was suggesting LA County (and/or City) protect their structures with such. Most of the salt would run off into the drainage or sewers the same as it does in the Midwest. Have you seen how much salt is added to roads? Amazingly, that doesn't kill the local vegetation and it's certainly not adapted to that.

 

[graylshaped]

I wasn't suggesting fighting undeveloped areas with sea water. I was suggesting LA County (and/or City) protect their structures with such. Most of the salt would run off into the drainage or sewers the same as it does in the Midwest. Have you seen how much salt is added to roads? Amazingly, that doesn't kill the local vegetation and it's certainly not adapted to that.

Los Angeles, both city and county, is vast. Localized use, sure. There are better options than to figuratively throw out the baby with the salty bathwater.

 

[toekneeheart]

I am a Brit, accustomed to the fairly objective and relatively unbiased reporting that used to be the speciality of the BBC. I say 'used to' because during the Tory government there was more than a sniff of client journalism about some of their work.

All this preamble to say that despite writing for a fairly esoteric tech and science focused website, Eric Berger has become one of my favourite and most-trusted journalistic voices in ANY field. I consider Eric's name on an article to be the definitive gold-standard for impartial, fair-minded and informed reporting. A reputation built incrementally from the lines of literally hundreds of articles that progressed from name-recognition to trustworthiness to downright admiration. This article is the latest in a long-long-line of measured high-quality journalism. I am so here for it.

@EricBerger Please keep doing what you do. Talking of the BBC, they had a line yesterday about "Joe Biden [speaking] for a vanishing age in eulogy praising Jimmy Carter's decency". Decency is a quality that shines through in your work and I believe it still has the power to change the world and make it a better place. Your journalism is a potent example.

P.S. I really ought to subscribe. I'm off to investigate that now.

 

[Wickwick]

Los Angeles, both city and county, is vast. Localized use, sure. There are better options than to figuratively throw out the baby with the salty bathwater.

Such use would require local boost pumps. One just wouldn't install them outside of residential areas.

 

[graylshaped]

Such use would require local boost pumps. One just wouldn't install them outside of residential areas.

I'll consider putting some boundaries on the original, rather broad suggestion to just pump seawater, to have been a good investment for my insomniac wee hours.

/tips hat

 

[ColdWetDog]

It comes down to this fires don't start by themselves they have to have a ignition source be it
man,electrical or lighting.

They need oxygen as well. So, your point is?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I consider Eric's name on an article to be the definitive gold-standard for impartial

(snort!) Except where any Musk-related article is concerned.

 

[mihail_pramatarov]

i was not aware of the evaporation part of the climate equation
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/floods-droughts-fires-hydroclimate-whiplash-speeding-up-globally