Argo and Ford will deploy driverless cars on Lyft's network in Miami and Austin.
Read the whole story
Read the whole story
Lyft ditches Google Maps for Here, partners with Argo AI
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
"Lyft says the switch will mean a better search database for places and addresses as well as more accurate predicted arrival times"
Better than googles? That's hard to believe.
Better than googles? That's hard to believe.
Upvote
80
(102
/
-22)
I've worked with the various mapping options out there. It's super complex when it comes to accurate addresses, things like multiple stops, accurate truck routes... etc.
Bing maps too has some advantages.
But mostly across the board it is a lot of trading one thing for another when you look at the options available.
General commuters see a fairly limited subset of the features that folks using them for business use see.
Bing maps too has some advantages.
But mostly across the board it is a lot of trading one thing for another when you look at the options available.
General commuters see a fairly limited subset of the features that folks using them for business use see.
Upvote
70
(70
/
0)
Google's addresses have been weirdly on and off lately for me. Addresses 'vanish' if a business goes out of business ... and they don't reappear when a new one moves in. It's largely confined to commercial stuff.
It's really strange.
Upvote
40
(40
/
0)
It's dataset is more focused on car integration from what I can tell. A lot of it was is built out with car telemetry data. So I can see places and address accuracy being worse but traffic and road conditions might be better.
Upvote
18
(19
/
-1)
In Lyft's case, I bet Here's accuracy only needs to be good enough. You have to figure there's a Pareto effect with 20% of Lyft's pickup and dropoff locations driving 80% of its ridership. Any high-impact accuracy issues will get fixed quickly with the first ride.
I'd also bet that Here is much more willing than Google to work with Lyft on tailoring its mapping service.
Upvote
54
(55
/
-1)
Maybe HERE hires more people to do manual on the field and more boots on surveys. While Google sticks with the usual more automatic surveys (Google Street view car, sats imagery, etc)
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
I think your last point is huge. Having someone to work with you is a big deal.
I've worked with a couple unicorn type start ups on some efforts they have decided to get into that weren't their main focus. Holy cow some of them need A LOT of help. "Ok so I see you decided to get into this thing but you guys don't understand this business at all... let's talk about how this works..."
Having someone explain details on something can really help avoid some huge pitfalls. Someone who understands mapping, the complexity of keeping addresses, updating them can help someone like Lyft do something like notify a driver that 'bro you might need to pick them up on 3rd street because the entrance moved'.
Upvote
46
(46
/
0)
For years I have assisted people looking for addresses with vehicle GPS. It is hilly and you have parallel streets, with the properties on both streets, but the addresses can be on either street. The GPS stops working. I have looked at Google maps of the area and it is missing addresses.
Upvote
10
(11
/
-1)
I'll be very interested to see how Argo's cars handle Miami. People drive like complete nutballs. It's much closer to driving on a Caribbean island than it is anywhere else in the US. Sadly, I won't get the chance to see it first hand thanks to the ridiculous COVID housing market. (It was crazy before, but COVID migration has made it complete nutballs)
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
I was using the Here app for android for the longest time because it had offline maps and Bing was using Here at the time (I like using Microsoft products). Since then, Here overhauled their Android app and I'm always willing to give things a try. After using it for a few weeks, it seems to navigate differently, for the worse. Is it an algorithm thing? I'm also not to happy with the user interface. Also, Bing no longer uses Here and switched to TomTom. So now I moved back to using Google Maps until I find something else that works well.
Upvote
9
(11
/
-2)
Google Maps also has an amazing ability to refuse to show you the names of the streets you're interested in.
Upvote
72
(72
/
0)
That's interesting - I've been using Here (WeGo) on Android for years for offline navigation, since I find its offline capabilities superior to those of Google Maps, not to mention that it's not Google. However, it's misdirected me twice recently, and those were not the first times. I'm almost ready to ditch Here for Google!
(OT, but does anybody have a good non-Google, offline mapping app for Android to recommend? I tried OSMand, but I must have been doing something wrong, because it couldn't recognize any of the standard US street addresses I entered.)
(OT, but does anybody have a good non-Google, offline mapping app for Android to recommend? I tried OSMand, but I must have been doing something wrong, because it couldn't recognize any of the standard US street addresses I entered.)
Upvote
9
(10
/
-1)
hmm isn't that also "this year"? You wouldn't want to go back to 2020, would ya?
Upvote
4
(5
/
-1)
Maybe. But Google's other divisions hire ridiculous numbers of contractors to manually review search results, personalization recommendations, audio transcription, and pretty much everything you can think of. I'd be surprised if Maps doesn't too.
Friend of mine used to work for Leapforce. Back then she said their workforce was 20k strong, and only did Google tasks.
Upvote
12
(12
/
0)
I always found Here easily superior to Google in Asia and heard it was similar in Europe, but that was years ago.
Upvote
7
(10
/
-3)
Frankly, I'm surprised. I've had to listen to people bleating for the last 374 years that google maps is perfect and the best and blah blah blah. For Lyft to cite that as the main reason is gutsy.Jonathan M. Gitlin":3c06eucc said:
However, wasn't Argo the name of a fake sci-fi thriller in some plot to rescue people? Then again, I suppose the Jason & the Argonauts meaning predates that by several years, so the traditional image of Argo is of an oared ship which was not self-sailing. In Greek, argos means swift, and they chose the name because Argo was a swift boat.
Upvote
-13
(1
/
-14)
Boston also has quite a reputation for bad driving - I guess it is the circles? - and I have on occasion had truly frightening taxi rides in NYC. Is Miami worse?
I will also put in a word for driving in Paris and many parts of Italy, as very nonconforming to American ideas of safe driving. Lanes? What lanes? Stop lights and stop signs? Only tourists would pay attention.
Upvote
5
(6
/
-1)
Argo's fourth-generation autonomous vehicle looks like the majority of the vehicle constitutes sensors and systems dedicated to figuring out where the remaining minority of the vehicle is going. Did they miss Musk's presentation, explaining that only a small handful of low-res cameras is needed for Level 5 autonomy? On the other hand, perhaps Argos means to actually release a Level-5 system.
Upvote
-5
(3
/
-8)
Chemical Tribe
Ars Legatus Legionis
I would say your bolded point is the only reason. Unless of course the next one is cost. I know embedded maps for google shot up what was it, 400%? Just about everyone ditched them and went with mapbox.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
I think this is the pertinent part of the release: "but the press release also explicitly mentions keeping user data private."
Upvote
6
(7
/
-1)
By a "better" search, Lyft meant "better for Lyft", not "better for the customer/consumer".
Upvote
4
(10
/
-6)
One .....driving trip...... in Mumbai or Delhi....
.... and you will know why Indians believe in reincarnation
It will also make you into an exceptional driver
Upvote
8
(10
/
-2)
Yeah, because it's false. Any run-in with Here has been terrible in my experience - outdated UI, fewer places, etc. Not to mention, having hundreds of millions of devices provide drive time estimates vs... much fewer - I'd estimate single-digit millions..... I know which network I'd expect more accuracy from.
The real motivating factor is to "improve the efficiency of our marketplace", aka, it's cheaper and we'll make more money.
Upvote
7
(15
/
-8)
Yes, having driven in both Boston and NYC, I can say Miami is worse. Being surrounded by Massholes is way better than anywhere in Miami. The mix of clapped out falling apart beaters and a good number of supercars whose drivers seem to believe the I-95 signs mean the minimum speed is 95mph makes the highways quite an exciting experience any time there isn't complete gridlock.
I don't actually mind it much because I'm ok with the whole "lane markers are just suggestions" thing and I pay close attention to body language and tells of other drivers so I'm rarely surprised by the wanton disregard for life and property coming my way and am perfectly willing to use whatever space is available to avoid it even if it makes someone uncomfortable. People do dumb shit literally everywhere. What makes Miami traffic truly special is the frequency/density of dumb shit and complete disregard for traffic laws or even any kind of sense of self preservation.
The situation on surface streets isn't any better, and comes with the added bonus of pedestrians, riders of electric scooters, and the rare cyclist who might end up dead if someone else does something sufficiently stupid at just the wrong moment even if you're driving like an angel.
There's a reason auto insurance here is insanely expensive relative to most other markets, even leaving out the medical part (which is itself very expensive because of the high frequency of probably but not provably fraudulent claims)
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
Probably a lot cheaper than Google Maps, which they aren't saying.
That's the motivating factor. Perhaps Lyft are finally getting concerned about continuing to bleed cash?
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
I used to work for a very large auto insurance company and the medical fraud in Florida they had to deal with is eye opening. Fortunately I never had to work any Florida claims. A manager transferred out of Florida and had many stories to tell.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
I remember using Here maps on my Windows Phone (yikes, that was like 8 years ago!), and found it pretty capable. Offline maps were a big bonus to it. Since Waze has started freaking out on my phone (failing to load, freezing up, just getting stuck loading directions, etc), I've been looking for an alternative to Google Maps. And yes, I know, Waze is owned by Google, but I've found the UI to be much better than GM, with larger icons that are easier to see at a glance being the big one, especially when I'm on my motorcycle.
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
I like OSMAnd+ for the maps and the sheer number of options that can be configured, the actual navigation is only so-so.
CoPilot used to be good, but is slow and prone to lockups these days. I'll uninstall it once I get all my bookmarks off (it was excellent for enough years that I have dozens of bookmarks for work sites).
I used Sygic for a while but uninstalled it during a road trip, after laggy turning instructions got too annoying
WeGo I'm installing again now, so can't comment on its recent performance - a few years ago it had issues with off-road bookmarks, and I think I moved to CoPilot then as a result
Google Maps offline mode is a constant struggle
As you can see I've bought licenses to most of them at one time or another, and I haven't found that "perfect" one.
Most have a free trial version, so really pays to try a few, if your phone can handle the storage !
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
For a very, very long time Google maps were leading drivers to the wrong *street*, when I was calling a Lyft, giving my apartment building address as a starting point. The building is technically closer to that street, however, there is no way to actually get there.
For cases like this you need a human to report a problem and say that there is actually a fence there and no passage is available.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
Is there any way for a general commuter to get access to this additional information?
Just off the top of my head, I know Google has a lot more information about traffic and customer visits (useful for knowing when a business will be crowded) than they easily display in their consumer apps.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
And in general it's just been wonky with results. "Take me to the nearest (place with a few locations)" always wants to take me to one 5 minutes further than the actual closest. If I scrap it and redo it with a more honed in location, it's fine, but I used to never have to do that.
And it's really, really bad about closed roads, but it's always been that way.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
Just a bit of history: 'Here Technologies' used to be called Navteq, and has been making automotive map data since 1985, over a decade before Google even existed. They have provided the maps for a lot of the first GPS companies such as Garmin.
I'm not saying this necessarily makes them better or worse. I just don't want people thinking this is some new startup.
Their free app on Android is a nice backup even if you use Google maps because it doesn't need an internet connection to work (just make sure to download the data for your state or country).
If you drive into some area out of cell phone access and don't have a Google maps cache of the area stored in your phone, then Google maps won't tell you where you are or how to get anywhere--you are basically lost. (I've had this happen to me more than once, unfortunately). 'Here' will work just fine--all the map data is stored on your phone.
I'm not saying this necessarily makes them better or worse. I just don't want people thinking this is some new startup.
Their free app on Android is a nice backup even if you use Google maps because it doesn't need an internet connection to work (just make sure to download the data for your state or country).
If you drive into some area out of cell phone access and don't have a Google maps cache of the area stored in your phone, then Google maps won't tell you where you are or how to get anywhere--you are basically lost. (I've had this happen to me more than once, unfortunately). 'Here' will work just fine--all the map data is stored on your phone.
Upvote
18
(18
/
0)
I used here a bit ages ago and found it fine. The offline maps were great and the UI was decent imo. The data was not as good though and I generally just use Google now but it doesn't thrill me and I would be ok switching again in the future.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Upvote
4
(5
/
-1)
Here also provided the map data for Windows Maps until fairly recently. I think more people have used it than probably realize.
I totally agree about the offline mode. It's great being able to manually choose the maps you want by geographical area, like state or country, before you go. It's good at saving locations on collections, too. The one thing I don't like about the current Here Android app is that it's very direction focused. You can use it to locate an address, but Here will want to send you there right away. Its default mode is giving directions, not showing you a map. That will be fine for Lyft, obviously.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Are you saying that based on real data or just a hunch?
Here has long claimed that their database is four times the size of Google's. And having used both APIs, I'd have to agree.
Google has better PoI data, but in terms of the actual map data and routing, I'd have to give a significant advantage to Here.
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
Having driven for Lyft, my best guess is that pickup and dropoff locations don't follow the Pareto effect. Sure that happens that 20% of the neighborhoods drive 80% of the ridership, but once you get down to actual addresses, that doesn't really hold. There are some higher ridership locations such as airports and hotels, but that doesn't seem to constitute 20% of the pickup locations.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
faustshausuk
Ars Scholae Palatinae
This scans with my experience. When I lived in the city, Google Maps routinely sent folks two streets over. Angry drivers would tell me they were outside and I'd have to guide them to me.
It's not so great where I am now, either, but that's partly compounded by there seemingly being no way to manually update their inaccurate map of my apartment complex.
I use Apple Maps exclusively on my device, my girlfriend sticks to Google, and most days there is no meaningful difference between them. The years of Google having a clear advantage are long past, at least in my usage.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
Excited to comment on this article as my wife works for Here. While rebranded (formerly Navteq), the company was a pioneer in mapping/data well before Google even entered the scene. And you're correct in that they work very closely with partners (OEMs, major auto manufacturers, transportation/fleet, manufacturing, AI firms, and more). In fact, Here is owned by a consortium of BMW, Audi, and Volkswagen, so they're most definitely receiving forward-thinking investments in R&D for the auto industry. Lots of cool stuff happening in the company with AI, especially.
Google is more "take our data and figure it out, and deal with our errors".
Upvote
16
(16
/
0)