GM patents EV that can charge and power stuff simultaneously
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
Upvote
136
(154
/
-18)
I could see this as a useful feature for companies that have fleets of EVs where the fleet size is larger than the number of chargers they have. So they could chain together multiple vehicles at night so they all can charge overnight and be ready for the morning (or whatever schedule they might use).
Upvote
170
(170
/
0)
Or a situation where you have a fleet of trucks and just want to daisy-chain them all down the line. You would just have to make sure that the one on the farthest end gets priority so you don't end up having to pull one out of the middle.
Upvote
90
(90
/
0)
To be clear, GM hasn't patented anything. They've filed a patent application that hasn't been granted yet.
I'd expect the claims to be significantly narrowed during prosecution.
I'd expect the claims to be significantly narrowed during prosecution.
Upvote
72
(72
/
0)
I guess if one of the parking stall was out of reach for a charger, but chargers with two cables are readily available.
Upvote
19
(22
/
-3)
But that's just a normal "can supply power externally" usage, not a "be charged while charging something else". Unless I'm missing something?
Upvote
97
(97
/
0)
Upvote
23
(26
/
-3)
That doesn't require the simultaneous charge and discharge though.
What's not clear to me is if the "discharge" port is actually pulling from the battery, and thus adding an extra DC to AC conversation, when the charge port is connected to an AC EVSE. That would be particularly stupid in that daisy-chain scenario. Imagine all the losses charging that last vehicle when doing an AC-DC-AC conversion at every intermediate vehicle.
Upvote
53
(55
/
-2)
I was thinking you could use it to charge a range-extender battery, at the same time as charging the main battery. You could have such a battery in a pickup bed or towed.
EDIT: Given we expect the future of power tools and landscaping tools to be electric, that extra battery could be for tool use, as much as driving.
EDIT: Given we expect the future of power tools and landscaping tools to be electric, that extra battery could be for tool use, as much as driving.
Upvote
55
(56
/
-1)
I agree that this is a great idea, fills the hole of "buy a gas can and bring a gallon of gas when you run out to get to the gas station"... but I don't see how this is "charging and discharging" at the same time, except in the rare cases where the car is 10-15 feet too far from the charger.
Upvote
27
(27
/
0)
maybe one only has a single station already, and adds a second car and doesn't want to upgrade that if the car allows one to not.
Upvote
16
(18
/
-2)
I doubt this is patentable. My SMA Sunny Island inverter does this already - powers a load at the same time as charging the battery.
Unless it's a patent like - "do it like a solar inverter, except in a car..."
Unless it's a patent like - "do it like a solar inverter, except in a car..."
Upvote
16
(17
/
-1)
You seemed to make the claim for this set-up to charge three vehicles, for instance, would require installing three charging stations that all somehow fed into the first car in the daisy chain.
Did you just mean the cars have to have those extra electronics?
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
Or maybe you intend to leave several EVs unattended for a while and for whatever reason you don't want to charge them simultaneously, but would like them all to come up to full power without having to swap them in/out/etc. Or maybe an EV and some other things you want to charge overnight or over a weekend.
But until this patent turns into marketing materials, it's anybody's guess really.
Upvote
10
(11
/
-1)
You're right, when I read "connected to a bi-directional charger" I took that to mean a bi-direction EVSE. I see now that is not what was meant.
Upvote
11
(11
/
0)
This article seems like a bit of engagement bait? The very first comment is also the obvious use case that popped into my head - A two car house with one charger. It's also useful for the small but growing "power your tools from the vehicle" segment. Sure, you won't usually be charging your truck while running the tools because you're far from an outlet - but if you do plug it in, you expect it to work.
It's the same deal with the USB battery packs. Cheap ones never run your device when you're charging them. You'd think it wouldn't matter but it's always ended up being super annoying to me.
It's the same deal with the USB battery packs. Cheap ones never run your device when you're charging them. You'd think it wouldn't matter but it's always ended up being super annoying to me.
Upvote
18
(23
/
-5)
I haven't ready the application, but where do you see this? If that's what they propose, I agree, it's inefficient (but could still be useful in some cases).
Otherwise, it could just be letting vehicle battery management connect electrically in parallel to the charging station.
If it's the former, then the application is going to have to overcome a lot of prior art, including charging your phone from your laptop while it charges.
If it's the later, the application faces good ol' jump starting.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Shared by three vehicles charging simultaneously.
Charging multiple EVs simultaneously on a daisy chain is what the patent is claiming. Something that cellphones and laptop computers have done for years ... operate normally as the batteries charge from an external power source while in use and supplying power to attached devices.
What is novel about the patent is "doing it with EVs"
Upvote
18
(18
/
0)
The other poster said it required multiple EVSEs so you might as well just plug each vehicle into an EVSE. That's not what the patent drawing shows.
Upvote
2
(3
/
-1)
This is a brilliant idea! For all of those with a single charger installed at home, you could just plug in Car A to the EVSE, Car B into Car and presumably have the two load balance to charger and condition the batteries. Keeps people from having to buy new charging equipment!
When we went to a full EV home, we upgraded our single EVSE to a GRIZZL-E Duo, but not having to upgrade at all (or install new wiring) would be fantastic!
EDIT: it's brilliant if they do it with a modicum of intelligence--e.g., passing through power instead of charging from the battery when plugged into a LVL 2 station. Extra AC/DC conversion = bad. Extra wear on your battery from additional charge cycles = bad.
When we went to a full EV home, we upgraded our single EVSE to a GRIZZL-E Duo, but not having to upgrade at all (or install new wiring) would be fantastic!
EDIT: it's brilliant if they do it with a modicum of intelligence--e.g., passing through power instead of charging from the battery when plugged into a LVL 2 station. Extra AC/DC conversion = bad. Extra wear on your battery from additional charge cycles = bad.
Upvote
9
(9
/
0)
It could be useful at places that only have a single charging port (hotels, small shopping complexes, parking garages, etc), or where it's cost prohibitive to add more charging stations. But this is also dependent on cars in the chain having a dual charging port, and everyone staying in the chain for a long period of time.
Upvote
6
(7
/
-1)
But you're not really avoiding the cost of another EVSE, it's just built into the car. I'd rather invest that money into my garage and buy any BEV I want, instead of being limited to the ones with this feature.
Upvote
14
(14
/
0)
My use case would be an edge case. I have a generator panel in my garage so that I can power critical items (furnace, refrigerator, microwave, etc.) when we lose power. If, and it’s a big if, my EV could out 240V (they only do 120V in the US), I could connect my EV to the generator panel and recharge the battery pack with my gas generator and not have to disconnect.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
The patent seems to cover all the bases as far as how the intermediate car passes along power, such that in the most fully-implemented version, the intermediate car would only convert power when necessary and only draw from the battery when necessary.
However, there might not really be a way around that intermediate car having to have some non-trivial circuitry adding at least “some” losses compared to the second car being plugged directly into a charging station. For instance, the power going to the second car might have to pass through an extra isolation step in the intermediate car that wouldn’t exist in the case of that second car being plugged directly into a charger. That isolation might be a transformer system with an air gap, as an example.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
This is the most logical use-case. Installing a large number of chargers, even just L2 chargers, could be a cost-prohibitive upgrade for company to switch to EVs. This would make it fairly easy to expand an EV fleet faster than the growth of the EV chargers, especially in situations where the vehicle will sit overnight.
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
I don't think a hotel would make sense, since you will have to trust strangers to draw power from your car.
Upvote
12
(12
/
0)
I actually had this exact idea a while back. It never occurred to me to patent it. hahah
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
I am not sure in the article and don't have time to wade into the docs, but is this system AC->AC charging or DC daisy chaining. If DC, then this has the potential to transfer way more power. You could use one car to DC fast charge a second car. That might be useful in households where 1 vehicle gets a lot more use than the second.
Last edited:
Upvote
-1
(1
/
-2)
... Plug it into itself ...
I realize this dumb, but it's the first thing that came to mind and now you are forced to share in my dumbness.
I realize this dumb, but it's the first thing that came to mind and now you are forced to share in my dumbness.
Upvote
17
(17
/
0)
THIS, because I immediately came to the same conclusion, making the article sub-title confusing (or baiting?):
Upvote
0
(1
/
-1)
Eh, it depends. The cost of a 2nd EVSE is not trivial. Some people don't have enough service to handle a 2nd EVSE, or their breaker box is already full to capacity, or running wire out to a detached garage is very expensive, etc.
If I were GM, I'd patent this, then sell it to other OEMs like they did with magnetorheological suspension (MagneRide). With economy of scale, and some of the requisite wiring in place, presumably, this need not add TOO much to the cost of producing the car. If GM could offer it as a differentiator without upping the cost of their EVs, it would be compelling for many households that currently own 1 EV and want to own 2.
While I agree it's niche, it has potential.
Upvote
5
(6
/
-1)