A trip to the city in the clouds yields a truth that some characters can't handle.
See full article...
See full article...
At the halfway point of season 3, The Wheel of Time is getting it done
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
As a book reader I really enjoyed this episode. though I have to wonder if for non book readers, was there enough exploration of the Aiel and Tuatha'an cultures in prior seasons to properly convey the weight of the flashback scenes?
Upvote
30
(30
/
0)
Show only reactions are only just now starting to drop but the few I've seen are picking up on most things.
They're not catching everything and there's some confusion about how far back in time any given step is etc, but the important beats like the Aiel used to be pacifists and had two splits which results in the Tuatha'an and the Aiel as we know them today, each having broken a different oath, etc are getting caught.
I also saw one (Joy Scott) who immediately also picked up on
The moment when Bair said it was his father not mother, and also realized that the Way of the Leaf would destroy the Aiel, and we haven't even gotten that particular prophecy yet.
Upvote
11
(11
/
0)
Getting tattoos as an actor can be a problem because then they have to be either included or hidden in anything you do, and those are some very distinctive tattoos in a relatively visible area.
Also they're not quite tattoos. The appearance is more embossed and metallic and the dragon's eye appears to be a jewel.
Upvote
18
(18
/
0)
As someone who hasn’t read the books. I felt pretty lost in this episode.
Upvote
12
(13
/
-1)
I have not read the books, but I loved the episode immensely. I will straight up admit though that I got totally sucked into the story, lore, and craziness during season 2, and then went on a straight binger of WoT lore from the online wiki. So I knew some things were coming up, but was unsure how they would be shown (because the show is showing its variation of this turn of the wheel).
So again, LOOOOVED the episode, and that final flashback from 3000 years in the past actually showing the pattern break into the void that is the dark ones prison was amaaaazing.
I can only imagine how rough next weeks episode is going to be after the brutal trauma of what was seen and what Rand shares with the Aiel.
Edit: spelling fail
So again, LOOOOVED the episode, and that final flashback from 3000 years in the past actually showing the pattern break into the void that is the dark ones prison was amaaaazing.
I can only imagine how rough next weeks episode is going to be after the brutal trauma of what was seen and what Rand shares with the Aiel.
Edit: spelling fail
Upvote
19
(19
/
0)
I'm impressed with how the show runners have captured the complexity of Jordan's novels without losing the essence of the story. This is turning out to be a great series.
Upvote
20
(23
/
-3)
It's who didn't participate that I miss the most. I hope the effect of that is made up for in other imaginative ways, otherwise, I don't see how some of the aspects of the series can be reworked.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
It’s incredible how much better the acting has gotten. The first two seasons were on the bad to passable spectrum but it’s been notably better this season, especially Josha Stradowsky. Not nearly so wooden and in some places actually adding nuance to the character. I’m pleasantly surprised!
Last edited:
Upvote
24
(24
/
0)
I haven't watched this show after the first couple episodes of season 1 put me off (big fan of the books, too many changes), but am I reading this correctly that Mat doesn't enter Rhuidean? That's…awkward.
You obviously read the books, so you understand that. For those that didn't, let's just say Mat does something there that resonates for the entire series. Without it, I don't see how victory will be possible.
Upvote
6
(9
/
-3)
If they're actually going to finish this (slightly mad!) exercise then never mind trimming, they're going to be slicing out non trivial plot lines left right and center
In a few series time they'll be at the bit where that could sensibly escalate to scrapping an entire book or two. There's more than enough there to cope with this sort of treatment.
In fact, for me, the books could/should be cut in roughly half and they'd be a far better series.
Upvote
20
(22
/
-2)
TV/book spoilers...
They seemed to have moved Matt's story line from being based on the *finns wish granting, to being a side-effect of blowing the horn of valere. Ever since he blew the horn last season, he's been getting intrusive (headache inducing?) memories of past battles, etc. It's also why he's been sticking with Nyneave instead of going with Rand to Ruidean. Matt thinks Nyneave will help heal him. It's possible he still goes through a (yet to be found magical) doorway to help him control the memories/headaches/whatever. Still 4 episodes left this season.
Upvote
20
(21
/
-1)
Mat is likely doing the thing. They're just not having it happen in the Waste. Basically Mat as a character contributed very little to the events in the Waste. The only important things he did only involved himself. Rafe didn't want Mat to get overshadowed by the Rand and Egwene and Moraine of it all, so his story got moved to Tanchico.
some futurey spoilers
We've seen a twisted red stone doorway in the 13th depository, and Min's vision of him hanging from a doorway already. Elaida had a bracelet with snakes and foxes prominently featured (also seen in a behind the scenes video with a note that was like "very important costume piece do not forget" and Rand and Perrin were playing snakes and foxes in episode 1.
There's also a Finn cast from credits leaks/IMDB
There's also a Finn cast from credits leaks/IMDB
Upvote
16
(17
/
-1)
It's possible the series will return to Rhuidean at a later time, or they plan to totally rework
the Finn
Spoiler tags might be useful in your original comment. To me, you're right... key bits of the entire plot arc (and some of the best bits of the books) hang off this.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
As I recall, Rand does wear long sleeves on several occasions to hide the very distinctive marks. I also recall a lot of places where the description is just the heads peeking from under his sleeves. It's been a while since I read the whole thing though so I could remember wrong.
Anyway, the marks are really only relevant in a few places to drive home who he is. So not a big deal if they're not shown often. Probably better if they're not, in fact.
Upvote
14
(14
/
0)
I have it on the word of someone I trust who is in the know that Mat is absolutely still doing the thing. He's just not doing it in Rhuidean, because the thing in which he does the thing isn't in Rhuidean (very light spoilers, nothing material, just clarification).
Upvote
9
(10
/
-1)
There was an interesting Easter Egg in the opening title screen. I'll put spoiler tags in case anyone wants to go look for themselves.
The sound and the rotation of the Great Serpent are both backward.
Upvote
13
(14
/
-1)
Still haven't watched the first three episodes of this season, but knowing what this one was going to be I jumped ahead and watched it. It was good. Naturally a lot of the little changes grated (and I mean little, like Rand struggling to walk forward), but the rest more than made up for it. And the first flashback to Janduin.... I feel like that actually should have been in the book. It's an excellent "show", which I assume is going to abbreviate some of the "tell" from the Wise Ones later.
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
I was sad when I didn't see Mat going with Rand, though I think I get where the showrunners are going with his new location and team.
I WAS very amused to see a definitely Mat-awesome scene at Rhuidean that Moiraine got to provide
The whole episode delivered as I'd hoped, but I'm also glad to see some of the smaller details make it in, even if not from the specific book characters who did them.
I WAS very amused to see a definitely Mat-awesome scene at Rhuidean that Moiraine got to provide
THE KNIVES! The extra knives Mat had to shrug off under the eyes of the Wise Ones before entering with Rand
The whole episode delivered as I'd hoped, but I'm also glad to see some of the smaller details make it in, even if not from the specific book characters who did them.
Upvote
22
(23
/
-1)
I hope we are getting close to Matt putting his new field marshal skills to the test. The Shaido should be coming over soon, can't wait to see what they do with that.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
One realization I had last night is that we're halfway through the season and need to wrap up all the teams in the next four episodes. Desert battles, Two Rivers conflicts, and Black Ajah hunting... and maybe Min in the White Tower? Tight schedule to keep.
Upvote
8
(9
/
-1)
The Janduin scene was specifically added to address a concern that the audience might interpret the scenes as previous incarnations, so this grounded the audience in that the ter'angreal showed events through the eyes of ancestors. The book ter'angreal functioned differently in that it showed events only from the founding of Rhuidean and maybe wasn't exclusively ancestors because Rhuarc mentions that everyone sees the Sharing of Water. I enjoyed the added scene though, especially since it allowed Rand to see his mother's face.
They had to cut a couple of flashbacks for time, and the Sharing of Water was one of them, so I imagine we'll get more discussion about that as we address Moiraine's revelation that the Aiel gifted Avendoraldera to Cairhien for a nonspecific 'repayment of some debt'. We will also need to discuss Janduin's fate and possibly how that relates to male Aiel channelers.
The decision to make Rand struggle to walk through the ter'angreal I imagine was made for dramatic purposes, although I have seen people fail to make the distinction between his experience and Muradin's even after reading the books.
Upvote
4
(5
/
-1)
They did apparently write scenes for the sharing of water and the first maiden of the spear but neither made it in. The first maybe for time and expense, since it could be relatively easily covered in dialogue. The latter probably because between Ila telling a similar story in season 1 and the fact they're probably making it less a notable thing that a woman would fight in the series, they felt it wasn't as impactful and effort could be better spent elsewhere.
I do wonder if the Ancestor Paradox and population bottlenecks mean that it's actually pretty easy for the columns to find an ancestor to show everyone particular important events.
I do wonder if the Ancestor Paradox and population bottlenecks mean that it's actually pretty easy for the columns to find an ancestor to show everyone particular important events.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
That is what I would have theorized - that the Sharing of Water was shown to all Aiel that passed through the columns and was so important because it was a bottleneck for the Aiel as a people. Well, that and the Pattern's need to have the Aiel gift Avendoraldera to Cairhien so Laman could cut it down and yada-yada.
Upvote
6
(7
/
-1)
The actor who plays Mandein's wife at the founding of Rhuidean was originally cast as the first Maiden. Her taking Mandein's spear to start that 'spear wall' outside the city was written in as a small nod to that.
Speaking of that spear, I wonder if we'll get an explanation of why that spear was so ornate. It's a big contrast in design. Maybe after the first Aiel went to Rhuidean and passed through the columns it was considered distasteful.
Good point. Certain book events do point toward it being entirely blood relations, so this is my new head cannon even if it wasn't intended that way.
Upvote
8
(9
/
-1)
Well, similar to how most Thomas Kinkade "paintings" were manufactured, they could apply a temporary tattoo and touch it up with a few embellishments such as a small gem. That would suffice for any non-close up shots, what with the motion blur.
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
If you would actually watch the series (it's good!), you would know that Mat very obviously is going to do the thing you are hinting at. Just not in Rhuidean.
Also, that was a really fantastic episode of TV. They really have figured out how (and have the leeway from the powers that be) to bring the books to the screen.
Upvote
13
(14
/
-1)
It feels like we're also seeing a few sa'angreal being merged in function - maybe? There's been no mention of the Choedan Kal, and a line drawn between Callandor and the white Orb that Moiraine has.
Upvote
13
(13
/
0)
Started reading the books in the late 1990s. Finished as they were released, so foggy memory for the details and all that.
Am enjoying season 3 quite a bit after nearly giving up on S1. I too thought this episode was handled well.
Honest (pedantic) question: shouldn't the one power be described as "sexed" instead of "gendered"? RJ seemed to tie it to the "soul" of the character, with their actual body (never mind how their sexuality was expressed) being secondary.
Specific example, spoilered as it's in later books:
Balthamel (male body) gets reincarnated as Aran'gar (female body) yet still channels saidin.
Am enjoying season 3 quite a bit after nearly giving up on S1. I too thought this episode was handled well.
Honest (pedantic) question: shouldn't the one power be described as "sexed" instead of "gendered"? RJ seemed to tie it to the "soul" of the character, with their actual body (never mind how their sexuality was expressed) being secondary.
Specific example, spoilered as it's in later books:
Balthamel (male body) gets reincarnated as Aran'gar (female body) yet still channels saidin.
Upvote
7
(8
/
-1)
I felt like they really missed an opportunity here though...
they really should have had Moiraine using hair pins, and after she'd dropped the rest of her weapons, pause, and then also remove those and all her rings except her serpent ring.
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
That orb was named the Sakarnen in the show so they are likely simplifying the named sa'angreal people have to keep track of.
Late book spoilers:
Sakarnen was the name of the sa'angreal used by Demandred in the last book and it was attuned to Saidin. Making it a Saidar sa'angreal means they are likely replacing the roles of the Choedan Kal (and their access ter'angreal) with Callandor and Sakarnen.
Other than the access keys, the Choedan Kal were seldom seen. I think it's also likely that we'll never see Sharans, even if the final unnamed Forsaken is Demandred.
Other than the access keys, the Choedan Kal were seldom seen. I think it's also likely that we'll never see Sharans, even if the final unnamed Forsaken is Demandred.
Upvote
9
(9
/
0)
First episode of the series that had me enthralled. The wonky prosthetics aside of course. I've not read the books in 15+ years but it brought a lot of the threads of the books back to me. It fulfilled a lot of visuals I had in the back of my mind, great TV. Hopefully they can keep this up.
Upvote
5
(6
/
-1)
Non-book reader here.
I didn't have any trouble with the episode. It went a long way to explain the Aiel and the grateful dead pacifist/wanderers.
But also, I have done some poking around in the online wiki since I first started watching, to get more details. So that "cheat" may have helped me
Upvote
6
(7
/
-1)
I'd like if they use the sa'angreal as the access keys in addition to their normal use, just so we can get a shot of the fully operational battle station.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
My overall feeling after the second season was 'meh', but this season is going strong. Hopefully they won't the drop the ball...
Also, we were talking the episode with my brother and checked imdb to see if we were to see Thom again (given that he was absent last season and Lan is mentoring Rand and whatnot) and it turns out we will and I feel like inns of Tanchico will be where it will happen.
Also, we were talking the episode with my brother and checked imdb to see if we were to see Thom again (given that he was absent last season and Lan is mentoring Rand and whatnot) and it turns out we will and I feel like inns of Tanchico will be where it will happen.
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
- Add bookmark
- Featured
- #39
This episode felt really quite emotional for me. I've been reading these books for more than two decades, since I was a little girl, and I've always loved the Rhuidean scene as much as anyone else. It may have taken me until my second or third reread to fully understand it, but it's just always been with me. Being able to see it in this episode was, genuinely, incredible. I didn't expect them to be able to pull it off this well. As a sidenote,
Also for Andrew & Lee, that big sphere we see at the end isn't actually the Collam Daan, it's the Shoram. The Collam Daan is the attached university the Shoram is floating over, which presumably meets a very ugly fate as that hole opens. I'm not 100% clear on perspectives of different camera shots in that last vision so I'll need to watch it again, but I believe Mierin Sedai & Charn may be either in a skyscraper beside the fields or in the Shoram itself in the scene where they're talking. If they were in the Shoram, Mierin must have left the Shoram in the time it took Charn to get to the fields, which is why she's still alive.
I am so, so glad this movie of an episode wasn't interspersed with Mat going through the doorway. Mat is my favourite character & I'm super excited to see him go through that door based on how heavily foreshadowed it is this season, I'm just glad it didn't happen in Rhuidean this episode.
Also for Andrew & Lee, that big sphere we see at the end isn't actually the Collam Daan, it's the Shoram. The Collam Daan is the attached university the Shoram is floating over, which presumably meets a very ugly fate as that hole opens. I'm not 100% clear on perspectives of different camera shots in that last vision so I'll need to watch it again, but I believe Mierin Sedai & Charn may be either in a skyscraper beside the fields or in the Shoram itself in the scene where they're talking. If they were in the Shoram, Mierin must have left the Shoram in the time it took Charn to get to the fields, which is why she's still alive.
Upvote
14
(15
/
-1)