19 states choke TikTok on gov’t devices; feds push for nationwide restrictions

Louisiana and West Virginia join 17 states restricting access on state devices.

See full article...

 

[jamesonista]

Good! No one needs TikTok on a government device in the first place

 

[Atterus]

Golly, imagine that, a Chinese spyware app complaining it is losing access to government devices... I suppose the CCP... er... TikTok has a better idea on how to promote the security of the United States? I'm sure it has nothing to do with ripping out by the roots a major means through which they collect data on their primary rival...

 

[Nikolai(km)]

I'm a bit perplexed about the whole situation. Shouldn't all apps be specifically whitelisted for use on government devices, rather than blacklisting sketchy ones?

 

[radio_jaos]

It should be banned from all devices. Allowing the CCP so much influence and data on billions of users is not a good idea.

 

[arcite]

Social media sites blocked in China; Google, Reddit, Steam Community, LinkedIn, Tumblr, Plurk, Facebook, Twitter, Skype

----

Tiktok, like all China owned sites, is a psy-op.....they play the long game.

 

[Sajuuk]

It should be banned from all devices. Allowing the CCP so much influence and data on billions of users is not a good idea.

Yeah, that data's the property of all American companies, like Google and Facebook, got dangit!

 

[c_los]

Wondering why this requires the involvement of lawmakers. Can an employer's IT team not dictate which applications are allowed on the employer's devices?

But either way, disappointed with how the government is handling this. Instead of government entities and elected officials trying to outright ban applications we should be regulating what data applications are allowed to collect.

 

[kungfumonkeys]

I remember shortly after joining the US Air Force in 2007 they started allowing use of social media on work computers. drastic decrease in productivity, made no sense to me.

 

[Mad Klingon]

I'm a bit perplexed about the whole situation. Shouldn't all apps be specifically whitelisted for use on government devices, rather than blacklisting sketchy ones?

Yes, whitelisting should be the policy. BUT, never underestimate the power of a director's secretary to influence policy when she wants to keep track of what her kid is doing on social media. And any special exceptions rarely stay secret very long. Then everyone wants the app.

 

[Psyborgue]

Wondering why this requires the involvement of lawmakers. Can an employer's IT team not dictate which applications are allowed on the employer's devices?

But either way, disappointed with how the government is handling this. Instead of government entities and elected officials trying to outright ban applications we should be regulating what data applications are allowed to collect.

So far it's only banned on government computers, which makes sense. It's probably not possible or desirable to ban it entirely. People, especially Americans, especially teenagers, don't like being told what information they can consume.

 

[Resolute]

Good! No one needs TikTok on a government device in the first place

I would question why any social media app would be on a government device. Tik Tok has its own unique concerns, but to be perfectly blunt, I would have no more trust in Zuckerberg than I would China when it comes to that data.

 

[Defenestrar]

Just let me know when I can't use WeChat to conduct English language assessments per the requirements of the US State department. That will be so much fun trying to arrange a video chat with a prospective visitor who's behind the great firewall.

 

[IncorrigibleTroll]

Wondering why this requires the involvement of lawmakers. Can an employer's IT team not dictate which applications are allowed on the employer's devices?

But either way, disappointed with how the government is handling this. Instead of government entities and elected officials trying to outright ban applications we should be regulating what data applications are allowed to collect.

IT often requires approval from the bosses for those sorts of restrictions. In the case of federal agencies, that's congress or the executive.

 

[Atterus]

Wondering why this requires the involvement of lawmakers. Can an employer's IT team not dictate which applications are allowed on the employer's devices?

But either way, disappointed with how the government is handling this. Instead of government entities and elected officials trying to outright ban applications we should be regulating what data applications are allowed to collect.

It's spyware... you think they care what the regulations say? That's kinda the entire reason TikTok is getting banned... That's the entire reason China is treated different from US tech companies: accountability or at least the potential for it. The CCP will never face accountability for its actions, and is clearly a regime that engages in crimes against humanity routinely. The stuff coming out about the US tech companies is already facing pretty serious repercussions, and those companies can actually be touched by action unlike the CCP.

Where would you rather a thief be stashing their stolen goods? Next door to you within your same legal jurisdiction? Or somewhere far away you can never reach?

It's the CCP playbook to try and use Western paradigms to defend their malicious activities. To act like their aggressive and hostile activities resulting in their attempt to establish "police stations" overseas is the same as Google trying to sell you a sweater... Literally screamed bloody murder over Huawei spy devices getting banned because "it's illegal to suppress the free market in the US!!!!". Somehow, that argument resonated with some... There is a reason the world literally walled off these revanchist nations for decades, this is why.

 

[Mordics]

I'm a bit perplexed about the whole situation. Shouldn't all apps be specifically whitelisted for use on government devices, rather than blacklisting sketchy ones?

No, not all government phones needs to be locked down like they belong to undercover CIA operatives. There is no reason some federal park ranger ought to have to go though a byzantine federal IT approval process to download the app that allows him to pay for parking while traveling, for example.

If you lock everything down too far people will just use other avenues like personal devices that are completely uncontrolled.

Blacklisting known bad or risky apps is a reasonable compromise. Expanding the scope of government IT services to review every app that gets to be installed on any phone paid for the by the government, in a reasonable time frame, is not going to happen.

 

[citizencoyote]

Banning US propaganda outlets is pretty par for the course. The justification for the Dengist market reforms several decades ago was that the country would eventually pivot to true socialism. It was a bargain for time, as any socialist country will be excluded and embargoed and its population subject to influence operations from capitalists trying to promote counter-revolution (which just means allowing the country's plant, mineral, and human resources to be exploited by extractive foreign industries). The censorship regime in PRC has a long history from the socialist revolution in the country, when in the aftermath the CIA propaganda budget for China exceeded their GDP.

A post-revolution state on such unequal footing has only state power at its disposal to combat destabilization and attempts to foment counter-revolution. It's a fragile period in the immediate aftermath, especially for the poorer agrarian societies where revolutions did succeed. The idea is that short term loss of freedoms for those who earnestly or as agents of the US would promote ideas capitalists use to promote counter-revolution is less damaging to the society as a whole, than allowing those ideas to fester as sanctions & embargoes are piled on -- possibly leading to counter-revolution and a reversion to the outmoded capitalist system which depends upon unlimited growth and is totally unsustainable.

Translation of this word salad: China banned these evil Western apps because China has only good and benevolent long-term goals, while devil Westerners only want to exploit and destabilize.

That said, I have no problem with US governments banning TikTok on government devices. ByteDance seems incapable of providing guarantees that TikTok's data can't be hoovered up at a whim by the Chinese government. Banning it nationwide, however, might be problematic without evidence of actual harm. Even if a ban does survive the inevitable legal challenge, people will find a way to run it.

 

[OrsonX]

On YT I enjoyed:

TikTok - the most evil business in the world, by Moon

I have no idea if it was factually correct or utter hogswash... but if it was correct then it was startling! Especially the difference in the way TikTok is used in China and in the US, basically:

In China - used to make people compliant and motivated
In US - used to give teenagers the attention span of a goldfish

i.e., its is weaponised!

Was Trump right for once?!

 

[poltroon]

Good! No one needs TikTok on a government device in the first place

In general, yes, but let's consider the possibility of appropriate use.

Most government agencies now have official accounts on Facebook and Twitter, which they use to disseminate important information. National Weather Service is a classic one of course, as is USGS for earthquake news. I also personally refer to and follow various local agencies. My elected officials have social media accounts that they use to talk about policy, convey disaster information, mention upcoming public events, etc.

So in that context, one can imagine government agencies seeing the migration of young people to TikTok, as frankly everyone with any kind of internet site or service has, and thinking, "Maybe we should make weather alert videos for TikTok" say. And that would be a wholly appropriate thing for someone whose job it is to get information out to the public to do.

Now, given the potential for spyware and other malicious code, that suddenly changes the value proposition and maybe you don't want anyone who also has access to mission critical government services in any way to touch TikTok. Which is a reasonable response.

The secondary concern would be embedded TikTok content which also has security risk. This is something a government employee could encounter while reading news sources or searching for some content that is part of their job, without intending to access TikTok. Obviously this can only be handled by blocking the domain in its entirety and requires policy at a higher level than an individual employee.

 

[rodan32]

Am I a crazy person for not wanting any of my personal stuff on a work-provided phone anyway? Same reason I never install Teams or any other company stuff on my personal devices. I don't really want my employer to have that sort of access to the data available on my mobile device. And I don't even work for the government.

To the larger point, I think banning TikTok on government devices is just good sense. I think a nationwide ban is too far, but definitely think some transparency regulations need to be enforced/updated about data collection, portability, etc. We also ought to shout it out that the Chinese government is not your friend. Not that we're a very thoughtful society all the time, but if people thought about the data TikTok and other companies collects, and that it's all going back to China, and that the content is "nudged" in ways that the Chinese government thinks helps their geopolitical position, that would be a good thing.

 

[chanman819]

No, not all government phones needs to be locked down like they belong to undercover CIA operatives. There is no reason some federal park ranger ought to have to go though a byzantine federal IT approval process to download the app that allows him to pay for parking while traveling, for example.

If you lock everything down too far people will just use other avenues like personal devices that are completely uncontrolled.

Blacklisting known bad or risky apps is a reasonable compromise. Expanding the scope of government IT services to review every app that gets to be installed on any phone paid for the by the government, in a reasonable time frame, is not going to happen.

Seems like it might be a giveaway for an undercover operative to have a phone completely bereft of the cruft of a normal user. It would at least be unusual, and the unusual often get further scrutiny...

 

[pagh]

Social media sites blocked in China; Google, Reddit, Steam Community, LinkedIn, Tumblr, Plurk, Facebook, Twitter, Skype

----

Tiktok, like all China owned sites, is a psy-op.....they play the long game.

You know what else is banned in China? Tiktok. Bytedance runs a separate, more heavily censored service inside China.

If you think Tiktok was created as a plot to undermine western democracy through propaganda and information theft, you're giving the CCP way too much credit. Tiktok was created for the same reason Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram were - to monetize engagement.

The CCP will totally use Tiktok's huge foreign user base to undermine democracy, but it's almost certainly a tool they lucked into, not one they had any hand in creating.

 

[IncorrigibleTroll]

Seems like it might be a giveaway for an undercover operative to have a phone completely bereft of the cruft of a normal user. It would at least be unusual, and the unusual often get further scrutiny...

Or it's a giveaway that you're a crusty old tech grognard.

 

[Eurynom0s]

I'm not sure how I feel about completely banning TikTok, but no TikTok on government devices seems like a no-brainer and as others have mentioned it's surprising any government device isn't already subject to app whitelists.

 

[OceanGrownKush]

The justification for nationwide censorship of TikTok is absurd. Of course it would simultaneously be a net positive for humanity in general for unintended reasons, but should apply equally to all forms of unproductive scrolling apps if any at all...

I love the "concerns" about PRC's explicitly defined laws, as if the non-codified, extralegal relationships between US intelligence services and Silicon Valley firms is any different at the end of the day.

Naive much?

 

[OceanGrownKush]

So basically China is treating the USA like the USA treats the rest of the world and the USA is realizing they don't like that stick where it's been positioned...
Good on the USA for taking steps for data security, but I am enjoying the shadenfreude here just a little bit. Of course, the American government will never admit to mistreating the data their own tech companies are gathering.

There’s no schadenfreude here, just fantasies on your part

 

[Eurynom0s]

Seems like it might be a giveaway for an undercover operative to have a phone completely bereft of the cruft of a normal user. It would at least be unusual, and the unusual often get further scrutiny...

For something like CIA field operatives, I wouldn't be shocked if have a list of apps that they have modifying (or pay the companies like Facebook to provide special versions of) so it looks like they have those kind of normal people apps on their phones but are neutered in terms of permissions and what they can send home.

 

[Fatesrider]

Yes, whitelisting should be the policy. BUT, never underestimate the power of a director's secretary to influence policy when she wants to keep track of what her kid is doing on social media. And any special exceptions rarely stay secret very long. Then everyone wants the app.

Well, yeah, but nothing stops them from using THEIR OWN PHONES to keep track of their kids.

They should never be using a government-issued phone for that kind of thing in the first place.

Can't bring your own phone into a secure facility? LEAVE IT IN THE CAR and check on them before inserting the key into the ignition. I mean, this will not inconvenience anyone with enough brains to pound sand. And if they don't have enough brains to pound sand, well, they shouldn't be carrying a government-issued phone to begin with.

 

[OceanGrownKush]

Banning US propaganda outlets is pretty par for the course. The justification for the Dengist market reforms several decades ago was that the country would eventually pivot to true socialism. It was a bargain for time, as any socialist country will be excluded and embargoed and its population subject to influence operations from capitalists trying to promote counter-revolution (which just means allowing the country's plant, mineral, and human resources to be exploited by extractive foreign industries). The censorship regime in PRC has a long history from the socialist revolution in the country, when in the aftermath the CIA propaganda budget for China exceeded their GDP.

A post-revolution state on such unequal footing has only state power at its disposal to combat destabilization and attempts to foment counter-revolution. It's a fragile period in the immediate aftermath, especially for the poorer agrarian societies where revolutions did succeed. The idea is that short term loss of freedoms for those who earnestly or as agents of the US would promote ideas capitalists use to promote counter-revolution is less damaging to the society as a whole, than allowing those ideas to fester as sanctions & embargoes are piled on -- possibly leading to counter-revolution and a reversion to the outmoded capitalist system which depends upon unlimited growth and is totally unsustainable.

Nonsensical gibberish

 

[Psyborgue]

already facing pretty serious repercussions, and those companies can actually be touched by action unlike the CCP.

Can, but won't, cause lobbying and campaign contributions. You know, legalized corruption. Also, Mr. Flooflesnoot! How I missed you!

 

[terrydactyl]

I would question why any social media app would be on a government device. Tik Tok has its own unique concerns, but to be perfectly blunt, I would have no more trust in Zuckerberg than I would China when it comes to that data.

My local NWS office provides weather updates on social media. Governments use social media as an information outlet.

 

[Eurynom0s]

Well, yeah, but nothing stops them from using THEIR OWN PHONES to keep track of their kids.

They should never be using a government-issued phone for that kind of thing in the first place.

Can't bring your own phone into a secure facility? LEAVE IT IN THE CAR and check on them before inserting the key into the ignition. I mean, this will not inconvenience anyone with enough brains to pound sand. And if they don't have enough brains to pound sand, well, they shouldn't be carrying a government-issued phone in the first place.

There are plenty of government facilities that aren't SCIFs but where a microphone could still pick up things you wouldn't want getting sent back to foreign governments.

 

[Ivanp91v]

So basically China is treating the USA like the USA treats the rest of the world and the USA is realizing they don't like that stick where it's been positioned...
Good on the USA for taking steps for data security, but I am enjoying the shadenfreude here just a little bit. Of course, the American government will never admit to mistreating the data their own tech companies are gathering.

[removed]

 

[SpecTP]

I would question why anyone would have TikTok on their government issued phones.

 

[chanman819]

Or it's a giveaway that you're a crusty old tech grognard.

Those are inherently suspicious!

 

[poltroon]

There are plenty of government facilities that aren't SCIFs but where a microphone could still pick up things you wouldn't want getting sent back to foreign governments.

Or real time location information of someone who has access to someplace you'd like to get into.

SCIFs aren't our only risk - even the boring stuff, as we've seen from various supply chain issues, can have enormous repercussions. Like NotPetya taking out Maersk and snafuing ports.

TBH I think a concern for Twitter as well at this point, especially after the story of the engineer who says he was asked to provide data like that to an advertising client. Being an advertising client is easy.